Upgrade from OME shocks?? (1 Viewer)

[Bigdrewbowski]

I know there are hundreds (or thousands) of shock threads. I have searched, but not found a straight answer to this issue.

I am running a complete 2.5" OME lift from Slee on a '97 LX450. Heavy springs in front, and medium springs in rear. ARB front bumper with a dual battery.
My problem is this seems to be a very hard suspension. Every bump in the road is jarring. This is my daily driver and I would like to know if there is a better shock that would make the ride smoother? I am not looking for the cheapest option. I want something that when installed makes a noticeable difference.

Any help is appreciated.

 

[Malleus]

Part of the reason your is harsh is your lift. You have increased the lever arm in the suspension system and thereby increased the amount of force available to work against the dampers (shocks). The system components you're using weren't designed for on road travel, they were designed to function during off road operation, where NVH isn't really a concern. I haven't done the math here, but I'd guess that your only option is airbags.

 

[Malleus]

Or this...

Hat tip to @SeaJay, that made me laugh.

 

[Bigdrewbowski]

Part of the reason your is harsh is your lift. You have increased the lever arm in the suspension system and thereby increased the amount of force available to work against the dampers (shocks). The system components you're using weren't designed for on road travel, they were designed to function during off road operation, where NVH isn't really a concern. I haven't done the math here, but I'd guess that your only option is airbags.

Could you explain (or link me to a site) how airbags would help my situation? And, thank you very much for the reply!

 

[Malleus]

Not in this forum, at least not adequately.

In short, the job of the spring is to absorb the impact to the chassis, and thus to the body and driver, resulting from travel over uneven surfaces. Undamped, the springs would tend, over time, to oscillate in an uncontrollable fashion. This is why you have both springs and dampers (shock absorbers, terrible name, IMO). The purpose of the shock absorber is to dampen the oscillations of the springs, after they have been excited by the road impacts.

The shock absorber is designed to react to both the impact oscillation of the spring and the resulting movement of the chassis/body. From high school physics you know that the longer the lever, the less force is needed to move a load. It also follows from this that a given load will exert a larger force, given a longer lever.

Assuming the chassis/body load doesn't change, when you move it farther away from the attachment of the shock (the upper tower mount), you create a larger load motion, which the shock absorber has to dampen. Try this at home: stick a tennis ball on a pencil, and balance the pencil on your palm. Now try it with a broomstick. The longer lever makes it much harder to control the motion.

There is a subdiscipline of mechanical engineering known as NVH (noise, vibration and harshness). These very smart, highly paid people determine how a shock absorber needs to be designed in order to allow this:
Video: Jtube: Saturday Night Live: A Bris in the Royal Deluxe II

(I couldn't find this one: The Paley Center for Media)

These folks don't work on off road trucks; there's no need for them. All that's required in an off road suspension is sufficient damping to prevent broken teeth.

 

[Malleus]

Air bags work by allowing the air in a confined space to exit through a small orifice (a valve, usually), and then back in to the larger chamber when the load is removed. These are somewhat softer dampers than the fluid filled shock absorbers. This is why fragile cargo transporters rely on air ride suspensions on their trailers.

HTH

 

[Bigdrewbowski]

Air bags work by allowing the air in a confined space to exit through a small orifice (a valve, usually), and then back in to the larger chamber when the load is removed. These are somewhat softer dampers than the fluid filled shock absorbers. This is why fragile cargo transporters rely on air ride suspensions on their trailers.

HTH

Thank you for the reply. I am looking into some airbags now. I might be asking too much having a lifted vehicle that rides like a luxury sedan.

 

[Malleus]

Yep

I assume you also have off road tires? Those are also springs. Off road tires are stiffer springs than on road designs.

 

[tacosupreme]

Thank you for the reply. I am looking into some airbags now. I might be asking too much having a lifted vehicle that rides like a luxury sedan.

I have to disagree, that's terrible advice. Airbags are just air filled springs. Adding to your already firm spring rate will just make it more firm. Springs just support the vehicle ride height, that's it. If you ran airbags and no shocks you'd be upside down in the ditch in ten miles. I think Icon has the softest ride around if that's what you are searching for. 1991-1997 Toyota Land Cruiser [80 Series] Suspension Systems - ICON Vehicle Dynamics

 

[cavboy78]

or just get better, properly valved shocks, like icons or foxes....?!?!

 

[cavboy78]

yep, beat me to it taco...

 

[Malleus]

I have to disagree, that's terrible advice. Airbags are just air filled springs. Adding to your already firm spring rate will just make it more firm. Springs just support the vehicle ride height, that's it. If you ran airbags and no shocks you'd be upside down in the ditch in ten miles. I think Icon has the softest ride around if that's what you are searching for. 1991-1997 Toyota Land Cruiser [80 Series] Suspension Systems - ICON Vehicle Dynamics

Where's your engineering basis for your comments?

And for the record, since you obviously didn't bother to read my posts, I didn't supply any advice.

You are, and you didn't supply any rationale for doing so, other than your word.

 

[tacosupreme]

Where's your engineering basis for your comments?

And for the record, since you obviously didn't bother to read my posts, I didn't supply any advice.

You are, and you didn't supply any rationale for doing so, other than your word.

I know stuff and drink whiskey. That's just what I do.

Here's my resume.

 

[cavboy78]

Part of the reason your is harsh is your lift. You have increased the lever arm in the suspension system and thereby increased the amount of force available to work against the dampers (shocks). The system components you're using weren't designed for on road travel, they were designed to function during off road operation, where NVH isn't really a concern. I haven't done the math here, but I'd guess that your only option is airbags.

So, I'm trying to understand your line of thought here...OME springs and shocks, or whatever the PO has, were only designed for off-road use? That is news to me. Springs serve a very simple function and not really sure what makes a spring offroad only. As for shocks, i'll agree that some are more suited for offroad and other are better for the road. Also agree that as your GVW goes up, you need a stronger shock, valved properly to control vehicle motion.

But...what math? Why airbags? This lift has been done a thousand times with great success using fox or icon shocks or whatever else is available...without using airbags. unnecessary rube goldberg solution for a simple fix. better shocks.

 

[Bigdrewbowski]

So, I'm trying to understand your line of thought here...OME springs and shocks, or whatever the PO has, were only designed for off-road use? That is news to me. Springs serve a very simple function and not really sure what makes a spring offroad only. As for shocks, i'll agree that some are more suited for offroad and other are better for the road. Also agree that as your GVW goes up, you need a stronger shock, valved properly to control vehicle motion.

But...what math? Why airbags? This lift has been done a thousand times with great success using fox or icon shocks or whatever else is available...without using airbags. unnecessary rube goldberg solution for a simple fix. better shocks.

I see from your sig you are running Icon shocks with OME springs. Would I see an improvement in ride quality by only changing my shocks?

 

[Malleus]

I know stuff and drink whiskey. That's just what I do.

Here's my resume.

You didn't answer my question. Where's your engineering justification for your opinion and advice?

You are also wrong. Springs do not "just support the vehicle ride height", nor are air bags "just air filed springs", they're dampers, specifically dashpots, as are shock absorbers. Both have names which are advertising terms, not engineering terms.

 

[cavboy78]

Yes. Your shocks are more responsible for your ride quality than springs will be. If i had the money i would have gotten the icon stage 4's or slee shocks with the remote resis, but these were still a significant improvement both onroad and offroad.

 

[Malleus]

So, I'm trying to understand your line of thought here...OME springs and shocks, or whatever the PO has, were only designed for off-road use? That is news to me. Springs serve a very simple function and not really sure what makes a spring offroad only. As for shocks, i'll agree that some are more suited for offroad and other are better for the road. Also agree that as your GVW goes up, you need a stronger shock, valved properly to control vehicle motion.

But...what math? Why airbags? This lift has been done a thousand times with great success using fox or icon shocks or whatever else is available...without using airbags. unnecessary rube goldberg solution for a simple fix. better shocks.

I never said OME shocks were only designed for off road use. You did. Your engineering acumen obviously exceeds mine.

 

[Malleus]

FWIW, advice is what you get when you ask someone else to think for you. Wisdom is what you get when you accept the knowledge someone else has shared with you and make the effort to understand it for yourself.

 

[cavboy78]

I never said OME shocks were only designed for off road use. You did. Your engineering acumen obviously exceeds mine.

I guess my acumen is. The PO stated this:

I am running a complete 2.5" OME lift from Slee on a '97 LX450. Heavy springs in front, and medium springs in rear.

You replied with this.

The system components you're using weren't designed for on road travel.