UCA's needed for 1.75" lift? If so, JBA? (1 Viewer)

[sPaulp]

Hey all, newbie here with a small 1.75" front and 1.5" rear lift on the way. It's my daily so down the road when that changes, so will the build. Until then, will my factory UCA's work with that amount of lift? Or, should I purchase UCAs just in case or to ensure proper caster? I don't want to blow money where not needed, but I know this is important to ensure good ride quality and tire wear. If it's deemed necessary, is JBA uca's a good brand? I don't really want adjustable and like the 3 degree caster setting on the JBA's out of the box. I just don't know anything about them. Any advice/help on this issue is greatly appreciated so I dial this in correctly.

 

[re_guderian]

Hey all, newbie here with a small 1.75" front and 1.5" on the way. It's my daily so down the road when that changes, so will the build. Until then, will my factory UCA's work with that amount of lift? Or, should I purchase UCAs just in case or to ensure proper caster? I don't want to blow money where not needed, but I know this is important to ensure good ride quality and tire wear. If it's deemed necessary, is JBA uca's a good brand? I don't really want adjustable and like the 3 degree caster setting on the JBA's out of the box. I just don't know anything about them. Any advice/help on this issue is greatly appreciated so I dial this in correctly.

At that lift, it's not "necessary". "Necessary" is a funny word, and in order to understand it, you need to know where OEM UCA's fall short, and what problems afternmarket UCA's solve, and how, and other options.

The short version, is at your proposed lift, they likely aren't necessary, even more so if you have a competent alignment shop that is willing to work with you. Lifts reduce caster, which increases "wander" in the steering mostly noticable at highway speeds. This results in constant effort to keep the truck going straight and control darting from side to side. Which effect defeats the purpose of a luxury off-road rig that is also a fantastic road-tripper with moderate mods. A competent alignment shop would be able to use the LCA adjustment cams to "push" the lower ball joint forward and gain back a little caster with the OEM UCA, at the slight expense of not getting camber in spec. That's a trade I'd personally make all day long, and twice on Sunday. Twitchy steering sucks every. single. time. you. drive. the. truck. With that small of a lift, you run the risk of having too high of a caster angle with aftermarket UCA's and their built in +2.5-3 degrees, which leads to heavy feeling steering, and "possibly" increased wear in steering components. You don't mention what size tires you're running. If you're on the upper end of what fits without rubbing, and have an OEM front bumper, if you push the lower ball joint forward using the LCA cam bolts, you might end up rubbing the front fender liner. If you're on OEM-ish tire sizes, you're good there.

You will likely also gain back a small amount of front wheel travel in the form of droop with aftermarket UCA's, but if you're not off roading a ton this isn't likely a deciding factor. If you go aftermarket, and have a shop install, you'll likely be $500 in labor + parts + alignment.

As to which afternarket UCA's are the best? They are ALL outrageously priced for what they are and what they do. I have had SPC adjustables on my 100 series and run Freedom Offroad on my GX currently. Those are the only 2 I'd choose from. If you're going to pay outrageous money, get the SPC adjustable ones because you (meaning your alignment tech) can absolutely dial in the best alignment, especially as you rethink lift and tire size choices down the road (buy once, cry once). All the rest of the high priced ones offer no advantage over the cheaper Freedom Offroad. And when you hold the OEM ones in your hand off the truck, you'll quickly realize that even the Freedom Offroad "cheapies" are so much more massive and overbuilt compared to the stamped and rolled OEM design, that you'll wonder why you should pay $400-$900 more for brands like JBA, Ironman, etc etc.

If I were you, throw on the lift. Then go to a GOOD alignment shop that works on 4x4's, not some chain place with a 19 year-old working on your rig. Tell them you want caster as high as possible, even if they have to push the LCA forward and sacrifice camber being out of spec (then religiously rotate your tires). Drive it on some long highway trips for a few thousand miles. If you feel even after this that it wanders too much for your liking, then go adjustable SPC UCAs.

My 2 cents only...

 

[r2m]

I'd see how the ride is with your new suspension and if all is good, just call it done.
If you're seeing you need more suspension travel, larger tires, alignment issues, etc. then spill for the UCA's.
Then you're only spending on what you need.
Unless of course you have deep pockets...

 

[unculturedswine]

I lifted my GX via Old Man Emu Struts + Springs only and everything was fine. A few months later I installed some aftermarket UCA's and had rubbing at half turn that I could never get rid of without adjusting the alignment way out of whack. That lasted about a few months before I bought new OEM ones and pulled out the aftermarket, which are now very expensive paper weights.

Don't do it. Stock are just fine.

 

[sPaulp]

Thanks for the amazing feedback! Just fyi, I’m installing BFG AT/KO2’s in the 275/65/18 size. I see where some members have or do run this size with no mods and claim no rubbing or at the very least removing the little inner liner bolt to remove rubbing. I wanted the Mickey Thompson BAJA Boss AT’s in the same size but they are 32.4” compared to BFG which are 32.1” and most claim they run small. So, since this is my daily, why play with fire. I just had my local shop order the BFG’s. Does that change any opinions? And thanks again!

 

[Rednexus]

Another way to think about it is the age and condition of your UCA's. If you have a higher-mileage or older GX, the bushings in your UCA's might be getting a bit worn, and the ball joint could also be getting a bit loose (they both were on my 470 at 14 years/140K). In that case, it makes sense to replace your UCAs when you are installing your lift, and it might also make sense to spend a little more on aftermarket UCAs rather than stock-style UCAs. Also, if you are buying a bundled lift kit, it is often times not that much more expensive to have the UCA's be part of the kit, relative to buying them separately.

Regarding the type of UCA, if you do go aftermarket, one important thing to consider is what they use in terms of bushings and ball joints. Those parts will eventually wear out, so you'll want a pair of UCAs that use stock-style parts, or parts that can easily be sourced from the manufacturer. Ironmans use factory-style parts, JBAs use a Chevy truck ball joints, and others like Freedom Off Road use a non-standard ball joint.

 

[re_guderian]

Bushings and ball joints ought to last 150-200k miles, unless you're pounding your rig every weekend. Both Freedom and SPC are greasable, and both sell replacement joints for nominal costs.

Wheel offset plays a large role in rubbing, with OEM wheels being some of the worst. 285/65/18 on OEM GX wheels rubbed on my OEM UCAs.

I'm running 275/75/17 in Falken Wildpeaks, so a pretty similar tire, but on TRD Off-road 4Runner rims, which will rub less than the same tire on OEM rims for to smaller offset. I ran for a while without aftermarket UCAs. I think it drives better with them. I'm at slightly over spec caster, and easily maintain a straight line on the freeway with one finger. No wander at all. Prior to the UCAs, it wasn't horrible, but did require you to pay attention to keep a straight line at freeway speeds. If I'm paying for the "Lexus ride", I want this thing to practically drive itself, !

I run a 2" Ironman lift, with extra weight up front from bumper and winch. What lift exactly are you going to run, and will you have any extra weight (bumper, winch, second battery) that will lessen the lift?

 

[Rednexus]

Bushings and ball joints ought to last 150-200k miles, unless you're pounding your rig every weekend. Both Freedom and SPC are greasable, and both sell replacement joints for nominal costs.

Freedom and SPC may sell the one-off bushings today, but availability 10 years down the road is always going to be questionable compared to OE-style parts, or if one happens to get broken on a trail somewhere. Of course you can always buy a few spares now and keep them on-hand.

 

[sPaulp]

Bushings and ball joints ought to last 150-200k miles, unless you're pounding your rig every weekend. Both Freedom and SPC are greasable, and both sell replacement joints for nominal costs.

Wheel offset plays a large role in rubbing, with OEM wheels being some of the worst. 285/65/18 on OEM GX wheels rubbed on my OEM UCAs.

I'm running 275/75/17 in Falken Wildpeaks, so a pretty similar tire, but on TRD Off-road 4Runner rims, which will rub less than the same tire on OEM rims for to smaller offset. I ran for a while without aftermarket UCAs. I think it drives better with them. I'm at slightly over spec caster, and easily maintain a straight line on the freeway with one finger. No wander at all. Prior to the UCAs, it wasn't horrible, but did require you to pay attention to keep a straight line at freeway speeds. If I'm paying for the "Lexus ride", I want this thing to practically drive itself, !

I run a 2" Ironman lift, with extra weight up front from bumper and winch. What lift exactly are you going to run, and will you have any extra weight (bumper, winch, second battery) that will lessen the lift?

My lift is from Chad at Alldogs 4x4. We spoke many times about dialing in a lift that makes sense now. Therefore, I purchased Koni shocks/coils with light load up front at 1.75” and Koni shocks with Bilstein coils light load rear at 1.5”. Chad was adamant about me not needing UCA’s and said it’s a waste of money at this lift size. Further, he mentioned upgrading down the road when I actually need it with a bigger lift, tires, body armor, etc. Currently, I have no intention of additional weight but inevitably will down the road. I may purchase a rear drawer and keep slowing and methodically adding mods. But for now, I need a competent daily with a slightly higher stance and more rubber.

 

[re_guderian]

My lift is from Chad at Alldogs 4x4. We spoke many times about dialing in a lift that makes sense now. Therefore, I purchased Koni shocks/coils with light load up front at 1.75” and Koni shocks with Bilstein coils light load rear at 1.5”. Chad was adamant about me not needing UCA’s and said it’s a waste of money at this lift size. Further, he mentioned upgrading down the road when I actually need it with a bigger lift, tires, body armor, etc. Currently, I have no intention of additional weight but inevitably will down the road. I may purchase a rear drawer and keep slowing and methodically adding mods. But for now, I need a competent daily with a slightly higher stance and more rubber.

Well there you go! Drive it as is with the OEM's, if it's squirrelly try a legitimate alignment, and if still wandering, then go aftermarket.

 

[sPaulp]

Well there you go! Drive it as is with the OEM's, if it's squirrelly try a legitimate alignment, and if still wandering, then go aftermarket.

So, I realize they aren’t necessary and the consensus seems to be I would be fine with OEM. However, if I choose to still purchase, could then in theory the aftermarket UCA’s do more harm than good based on @unculturedswine comments above? I’ve always been a have it and not need it rather than need it and not have it type of guy. And if there is even a slight chance an UCA will make my ride better after this small lift, then I don’t mind spending the money. But, if it’s simply going to be a waste of money than I’m happy to stay OEM. Like you mentioned, I can see how it rides after install but I’m not even sure I know what I’m looking for to see if I need UCA’s after the fact Lol. It sounds like the quality of technician doing the alignment can make or break the ride and dial in specs correctly.

 

[re_guderian]

So, I realize they aren’t necessary and the consensus seems to be I would be fine with OEM. However, if I choose to still purchase, could then in theory the aftermarket UCA’s do more harm than good based on @unculturedswine comments above? I’ve always been a have it and not need it rather than need it and not have it type of guy. And if there is even a slight chance an UCA will make my ride better after this small lift, then I don’t mind spending the money. But, if it’s simply going to be a waste of money than I’m happy to stay OEM. Like you mentioned, I can see how it rides after install but I’m not even sure I know what I’m looking for to see if I need UCA’s after the fact Lol. It sounds like the quality of technician doing the alignment can make or break the ride and dial in specs correctly.

You are correct that a competent alignment guy can make or break, but there are limits, hence aftermarket UCA's. Even so, you have to understand the concept of caster, and that "built in caster" simple means that on most aftermarket UCA's (excepting SPC) the top point of the line between lower ball joint and upper ball joint is getting moved backwards. That moves your tire backwards in the wheel well, by roughly half the distance the new UCA moves the upper ball joint back, and can create rubbing issues near the rear fender liner or on the body mount. With my install of aftermarket UCA's and no alignment, I had rubbing. Alignment fixed that.

here's some pictures comparing aftermarket to OEM so you can visualize the difference UCA Comparison

I take it you are not doing the install, and paying someone to do it? Either way, with your lower lift, I'd run it and spend the time and money to find a shop that does 4x4 alignments in your area, then go from there. Tell them you need caster to be as high as possible. You'll know if you need them. Hit a long, crowded stretch of 75+ mph interstate, and see how stressed out you are... Hit that spot now before the lift is installed so you know what you're comparing to. Low caster, twitchy rigs suck to drive fast.

 

[r2m]

Thanks for the amazing feedback! Just fyi, I’m installing BFG AT/KO2’s in the 275/65/18 size. I see where some members have or do run this size with no mods and claim no rubbing or at the very least removing the little inner liner bolt to remove rubbing. I wanted the Mickey Thompson BAJA Boss AT’s in the same size but they are 32.4” compared to BFG which are 32.1” and most claim they run small. So, since this is my daily, why play with fire. I just had my local shop order the BFG’s. Does that change any opinions? And thanks again!

Keep in mind that some folks, when they say they're not getting any rubbing from "x" size tire, could be read as only street driving and have not completely cycled through the entire range of their suspension at lock-to-lock.
Sure a larger tire may seem fine on the road were the most travel it'll see would speed bumps or driveways, but on a trail going through deep ruts, and rocks, your suspension will see a lot more travel.

Just something to keep in mind.

 

[sPaulp]

Keep in mind that some folks, when they say they're not getting any rubbing from "x" size tire, could be read as only street driving and have not completely cycled through the entire range of their suspension at lock-to-lock.
Sure a larger tire may seem fine on the road were the most travel it'll see would speed bumps or driveways, but on a trail going through deep ruts, and rocks, your suspension will see a lot more travel.

Just something to keep in mind.

Great points and thanks for the feedback. My hope in adding the 1.75“ in front and 1.5” in the rear is that with 32.1” tires, I should have the same or close to the same amount of travel and range of motion as stock. I can always tweak a little after the lift is installed. Fingers crossed this works out the way I have envisioned.

 

[r2m]

With what you're planning, my .02¢ is that you'll be fine for anything other than rock crawling.
I think you're on the right track with what you want to do and where to go with your rig.

 

[wizteq]

Great video explaining UCA.

 

[sPaulp]

Great video explaining UCA.

This is great info. Wow, so glad I didn't purchase UCA's.

 

[Tex68w]

I'd go ahead and add them if the money allows, eventually you'll go bigger and need them. That said, like the others have said, they aren't necessary at that height.

 

[sPaulp]

I'd go ahead and add them if the money allows, eventually you'll go bigger and need them. That said, like the others have said, they aren't necessary at that height.

I’ve considered it, but hear me out….so, for now and just to temporairily satisfy my aesthetic tastes, I’m adding a fairly cheap 1.75” lift and 32” KO2’s. THEN, the build begins slowly and methodically. Once I’ve purchased the bumpers, sliders, drawers, rack, etc., then I will circle back around and install a proper lift tuned for my then curb weight. That’s my story, and I’m stickin‘ to it

 

[re_guderian]

Great video explaining UCA.

His channel rocks.