Turbo seals about to blow? (1 Viewer)

[donnerpassing]

Howdy everyone, been looking around in other threads for similar issues on turbo seals getting ready to blow. I’m not blowing any smoke out of the normal that would indicate they’re about to go, no other symptoms, but alas I saw some soot looking down at the top of the turbo, rolled underneath to get a better look and this is what I saw. I’m in CA, and in the mountains where I don’t have a local shop to rebuild it, so I thought I’d ask if anyone had any pointers as to where to send it for a rebuild when I pull it out. Kinda bummed as this hdj81 only has 127k kilometers on the clock. I just don’t want to risk a runaway. I appreciate all the advice in advance

 

[ZCissner]

pull the hose to the crossover pipe(turbo to intake manifold) and look for oil and residue, what you have a picture of is the outside of the turbo, not gonna have anything to do with a runaway, just a externally dirty turbo with possibly a leaky at one time return line gasket. A runaway will happen when the internal seals of the turbo fail, check this by pulling the hose and looking for oil in the intake piping, if your gonna do that, then also pull the intake side (air filter housing to turbo) plumbing and check the impeller for excessive play. If its bad, repair or replace. drop-in upgraded turbos can be had new for sub-1000$ and will preform better.

 

[donnerpassing]

pull the hose to the crossover pipe(turbo to intake manifold) and look for oil and residue, what you have a picture of is the outside of the turbo, not gonna have anything to do with a runaway, just a externally dirty turbo with possibly a leaky at one time return line gasket. A runaway will happen when the internal seals of the turbo fail, check this by pulling the hose and looking for oil in the intake piping, if your gonna do that, then also pull the intake side (air filter housing to turbo) plumbing and check the impeller for excessive play. If its bad, repair or replace. drop-in upgraded turbos can be had new for sub-1000$ and will preform better.

I appreciate it ZCissner, I’ll get in there tomorrow if we get a break from the rain. I looked a lot closer and I’m already seeing some oil residue around the connection from the turbo to the crossover, but I’ll pull it just to look inside. I did find a little oil in the hose going to the the turbo from the air cleaner the other day, but I didn’t think much of it as it could have been from when the valve cover was still connected to the aircleaner(now vented to atmosphere). I’ll pull off both to look at the impeller and see if there’s a bunch of play as well. The amount of soot on top of the turbo and on the backside made me think it wasn’t sealed, but it may just be the band clamp not snugged down all the way

 

[ZCissner]

I appreciate it ZCissner, I’ll get in there tomorrow if we get a break from the rain. I looked a lot closer and I’m already seeing some oil residue around the connection from the turbo to the crossover, but I’ll pull it just to look inside. I did find a little oil in the hose going to the the turbo from the air cleaner the other day, but I didn’t think much of it as it could have been from when the valve cover was still connected to the aircleaner(now vented to atmosphere). I’ll pull off both to look at the impeller and see if there’s a bunch of play as well. The amount of soot on top of the turbo and on the backside made me think it wasn’t sealed, but it may just be the band clamp not snugged down all the way

View attachment 3215170

that oil soaking into the turbine housing does not look promising, if the shaft play is out of spec then i would rebuild or replace.

 

[aztoyman]

Looks more like soot than oil in the first pic.

 

[donnerpassing]

Looks more like soot than oil in the first pic.

It’s definitely sooty back there, not sure where it’s coming from yet but hopefully it’s just something a little loose or a gasket. hoping to pull off the pipe to the turbo from the crossover soon to see if it’s oily in there

 

[mudgudgeon]

It’s definitely sooty back there, not sure where it’s coming from yet but hopefully it’s just something a little loose or a gasket. hoping to pull off the pipe to the turbo from the crossover soon to see if it’s oily in there

Oil in the intake can just as easily be from the PCV hose and blow-by

Definitely remove the intake hose and check the compressor wheel for movement.

The oil lines underneath the turbo can fracture and leak. (red marker on your pic below). Replacement hard line part has a gusset on them for some strengthening.

Or the gasket can fail. Or oil drain hose can weep.

You've definitely got a build up of oil. But it's happened over time by the look of it. Also looks a bit sooty like maybe the turbine is leaking exhaust gases. I'd flood underneath with a petro-chemical degreaser a couple of times, clean it up, and see if you can identify where any leak is after it's cleaned

 

[donnerpassing]

Oil in the intake can just as easily be from the PCV hose and blow-by

Definitely remove the intake hose and check the compressor wheel for movement.

The oil lines underneath the turbo can fracture and leak. (red marker on your pic below). Replacement hard line part has a gusset on them for some strengthening.

View attachment 3215390

Or the gasket can fail. Or oil drain hose can weep.

You've definitely got a build up of oil. But it's happened over time by the look of it. Also looks a bit sooty like maybe the turbine is leaking exhaust gases. I'd flood underneath with a petro-chemical degreaser a couple of times, clean it up, and see if you can identify where any leak is after it's cleaned

Thank you Mudgudgeon, we’re getting blasted by a string of storms here, and if there’s a break in the weather I’m planning on getting under there, pulling some hoses and cleaning it up to see where the build up is coming from. I do have my pcv routed to atmosphere, so seeing some oil residue at the connection from the intake crossover pipe to the turbo is a little concerning. But once I do get everything pulled off I’ll be reporting back for advice. Hopefully not for replacement turbo recommendations

 

[donnerpassing]

Oil in the intake can just as easily be from the PCV hose and blow-by

Definitely remove the intake hose and check the compressor wheel for movement.

The oil lines underneath the turbo can fracture and leak. (red marker on your pic below). Replacement hard line part has a gusset on them for some strengthening.

View attachment 3215390

Or the gasket can fail. Or oil drain hose can weep.

You've definitely got a build up of oil. But it's happened over time by the look of it. Also looks a bit sooty like maybe the turbine is leaking exhaust gases. I'd flood underneath with a petro-chemical degreaser a couple of times, clean it up, and see if you can identify where any leak is after it's cleaned

Finally got around to taking a look, cleaning it up and seeing where it’s coming from Mudgudgeon. It looks like it’s actually a sooty exhaust leak coming from the band clamp that holds the turbine housing and turbo together, and it’s clearly not sealing all the way. Can I take the clamp off without removing the entire turbo/turbine assembly? Anything in particular to seal it up with?

 

[ZCissner]

what brand of turbo is that?

 

[mudgudgeon]

Finally got around to taking a look, cleaning it up and seeing where it’s coming from Mudgudgeon. It looks like it’s actually a sooty exhaust leak coming from the band clamp that holds the turbine housing and turbo together, and it’s clearly not sealing all the way. Can I take the clamp off without removing the entire turbo/turbine assembly? Anything in particular to seal it up with?

View attachment 3242800

That's not an OEM band clamp. And it looks like it's tightened all the way?

There is no seal at this junction. It's metal on metal.

I'd try and source a new OEM style clamp. I think the turbo flange is 86mm, the closest v band your light to find would be 3.5" which is 89-90mm?? May be enough if a difference that you aren't getting it tight.
Also, I think the turbo flange is shaped differently (thinner) than what you'd see with a typical v band joint

 

[donnerpassing]

what brand of turbo is that?

Factory CT26, has the least lettering on the compressor side. Claimed to have been rebuilt by the previous owner, does it look off?

 

[donnerpassing]

That's not an OEM band clamp. And it looks like it's tightened all the way?

There is no seal at this junction. It's metal on metal.

I'd try and source a new OEM style clamp. I think the turbo flange is 86mm, the closest v band your light to find would be 3.5" which is 89-90mm?? May be enough if a difference that you aren't getting it tight.
Also, I think the turbo flange is shaped differently (thinner) than what you'd see with a typical v band joint

View attachment 3242846

I appreciate the pointers as always Mudgudgeon. I craned my head around and it’s definitely not a v-band band clamp and just flat, so that’s probably why it isn’t sealing all the way, the inside of the clamp itself is covered in soot, so I have no doubt that’s where the leak is and why the back of the turbo is covered in soot as well. I’ll try and find a clamp.

I took a look at partsouq last night and the two bolt clamp is discontinued, so aftermarket will probably be my only way to go. The clamp has been on there since I took this 80 home, so I’m just trying to get everything tight and correct so it’s happy.

Can I remove the clamp without removing the entire turbo and turbine housing? Or is there a possibility the shafts inside could go out of alignment?

 

[ZCissner]

it's the wrong clamp if it's a Factory CT26, it has a 3-wedge style v-band clamp on it, not the 2 piece toyota one. it's not flat( on the outside that you can see it is) but the clamping side will be 3 V shaped wedge blocks that clamp under tension. it not toyota, its not hard at all to pull one of these turbos, but even if you change it out with an OEM one, it might leak if that is the style of clam that the housing was designed for.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Can I remove the clamp without removing the entire turbo and turbine housing? Or is there a possibility the shafts inside could go out of alignment?

Yes, should be no problem. It's a recessed flange so it's precisely aligned.

The one I pictured on eBay is the same style as Toyota used in later models.

The pic is for reference, not necessarily a recommendation for that seller

3mm diameter doesn't sound like a lot, but it equates to a 10mm difference in length around the circumference.

 

[ZCissner]

Amazon product ASIN B07T6D33LC
this is what you have on,

the one posted by @mudgudgeon is the correct one.

 

[donnerpassing]

Amazon product ASIN B07T6D33LC
this is what you have on,

the one posted by @mudgudgeon is the correct one.

Yes, should be no problem. It's a recessed flange so it's precisely aligned.

The one I pictured on eBay is the same style as Toyota used in later models.

The pic is for reference, not necessarily a recommendation for that seller

3mm diameter doesn't sound like a lot, but it equates to a 10mm difference in length around the circumference.

I appreciate you both, and I’ll look around online to see if I can track down the right clamp and maybe find some info on the exact size I’ll need. But I’ll start with the 86mm and go from there, there’s a local diesel shop that may have a couple two piece clamps around

 

[mudgudgeon]

There's a few listed on eBay. Also try Kinugawa and Mamba Tech

 

[Dougal]

Hey guys, the turbo is not the problem. You've likely got crankcase pressurising due to excessive blowby.

Turbo oil seals always leak. When the engine is healthy they leak inwards to bypass some boost and exhaust into the crankcase via the drain-tube. When creankcase pressure gets too high the flow reverses and they star to spit oil into the turbine and compressor.

At this point your turbo is fine, your engine isn't. Rebuilding the turbo will do nothing.

 

[donnerpassing]

Hey guys, the turbo is not the problem. You've likely got crankcase pressurising due to excessive blowby.

Turbo oil seals always leak. When the engine is healthy they leak inwards to bypass some boost and exhaust into the crankcase via the drain-tube. When creankcase pressure gets too high the flow reverses and they star to spit oil into the turbine and compressor.

At this point your turbo is fine, your engine isn't. Rebuilding the turbo will do nothing.

What would be a good way to test if crankcase pressure is too high? Oil in the intake? Compression test to check and see if the pistons need new rings? Just looking for input s ok no can begin testing. I vent to atmosphere with the pcv and it doesn’t blow any amount of smoke, but has the occasional drip, but nothing excessive