Transmission Fluid Change (2 Viewers)

[Joe T]

I have a 2024 LX600 Fsport with 13k miles and from my research I am learning the Toyota WS is complete s*** fluid. This transmission is so erratic and rough I think its worth changing the fluid. Now I need to figure out how I do that,, very easily right.

Figured my OCD research may help some others out (but I really should get back to work now ). Feel free to critique or comment as I can edit misinformation, if any. I haven’t done the fluid change yet either, just ordered it.

$31 qt. Lube Guard Complete Full Synthetic- 6.1 cSt @100°C

$13.50 qt. Royal Purple Max ATF 01320- 6.0 cSt @100°C (per email they answered). Full Synthetic.

$7.34 qt. Aisin ATF0WS- 5.7 or 5.9 cSt @100C (rockauto vs Aisin website). Full Synthetic.

$13.50 qt. Valvoline Max Life- 5.9 cSt @100C. Full Synthetic.

$13 qt. Toyota WS- 5.4 or 5.5 cSt @100C (conflicting information online). Not a synthetic.

$12.32 qt. Idemitsu TLS-LV- 5.3 cSt @100C. Don’t know if this is synthetic but gets decent reviews.



Honorable mention (stuff I bought):
Lubegard 19610 Dr. Tranny Instant Shudder Fixx 2 Ounce 2 Pack.
Lubegard 63010 Platinum Automatic Transmission Fluid Protectant, 10 oz. (Probably should have got 15oz as it should take 12oz for 12qts.)

I bought the Royal Purple fluid. I wanted the highest viscosity but didnt want to spend $30 qt for the Lubegard.

I may also take it to Lexus and complain and make them put Aisin in it (owned by Toyota, Toyota’s transmission company). Then put those additives in.

People online have good luck with the Valvoline Max Life as the best value because it can be bought on sale and/or bulk price.

Check compatibility for yourself. I am sure the Royal Purple works and believe the others do, but Valvoline MaxLife may not advertise as WS compatible. Use all at your own risk.

 

[Joe T]

Oh and Shaffers LV lists as WS compatible: 5.8 to 6.2 cSt @100C

https://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/267-205A-td.pdf

Around $19 per qt. Was closing all the windows and noticed this one I didn’t mention. I know their diesel truck oil is great (YouTube vids) and priced accordingly.

 

[bjowett]

Tons of info on many ATF fluids. Grab a translator

ATF свежие

Лабораторные анализы ATF cвежие - VOA oil-club.ru Addinol ATF XN 6 Addinol ATF XN 8 Addinol ATF XN Plus Aisin ATF AFW+ Amsoil ATF Fuel Efficient Polaris Laboratory Amsoil DCT Dual-Clutch Transmission Fluid OelCheck Amsoil Signature Series Fuel-Efficient Synthetic ATF Armor Perfect ATF DEX III Arm...

www.oil-club.ru

 

[Canyonero]

I have a 2024 LX600 Fsport with 13k miles and from my research I am learning the Toyota WS is complete s*** fluid. This transmission is so erratic and rough I think its worth changing the fluid. Now I need to figure out how I do that,, very easily right.

Figured my OCD research may help some others out (but I really should get back to work now ). Feel free to critique or comment as I can edit misinformation, if any. I haven’t done the fluid change yet either, just ordered it.

$31 qt. Lube Guard Complete Full Synthetic- 6.1 cSt @100°C

$13.50 qt. Royal Purple Max ATF 01320- 6.0 cSt @100°C (per email they answered). Full Synthetic.

$7.34 qt. Aisin ATF0WS- 5.7 or 5.9 cSt @100C (rockauto vs Aisin website). Full Synthetic.

$13.50 qt. Valvoline Max Life- 5.9 cSt @100C. Full Synthetic.

$13 qt. Toyota WS- 5.4 or 5.5 cSt @100C (conflicting information online). Not a synthetic.

$12.32 qt. Idemitsu TLS-LV- 5.3 cSt @100C. Don’t know if this is synthetic but gets decent reviews.



Honorable mention (stuff I bought):
Lubegard 19610 Dr. Tranny Instant Shudder Fixx 2 Ounce 2 Pack.
Lubegard 63010 Platinum Automatic Transmission Fluid Protectant, 10 oz. (Probably should have got 15oz as it should take 12oz for 12qts.)

I bought the Royal Purple fluid. I wanted the highest viscosity but didnt want to spend $30 qt for the Lubegard.

I may also take it to Lexus and complain and make them put Aisin in it (owned by Toyota, Toyota’s transmission company). Then put those additives in.

People online have good luck with the Valvoline Max Life as the best value because it can be bought on sale and/or bulk price.

Check compatibility for yourself. I am sure the Royal Purple works and believe the others do, but Valvoline MaxLife may not advertise as WS compatible. Use all at your own risk.

I don’t understand why you believe Toyota came up short on their decision regarding transmission fluid.

Admittedly, I’m not an engineer. That said, word on the street is that these rigs are built with a 500,000 mile duty cycle, so I’m genuinely curious as to why you would mess with it at all.

As for it shifting rough: My experience with Toyota is that they care more about robustness than smoothness. Their engines often sound coarse and gravelly, and their transmissions often shift poorly relative to the competition.

The last gen Tacoma was famous for having a universally loathed transmission, but I don’t remember reading about failures with it.

 

[Joe T]

Pretty extensive consensus online is that Toyota WS sucks hard.

Got my fluid in today will try to get time to mess with it in the next couple weeks.

 

[bjowett]

WS is pretty much the same type of base oils and add pack as the older T IV fluid. It’s a good quality fluid, but the thinner viscosity has the potential to allow too much wear in the valve body/solenoids, especially with heavier use and the silly extended service and lifetime fill recommendations. The clutch and wear metals build up and exacerbate this issue over time, as there is no filter, just a strainer. Had Toyota applied a few durability measures to the valve body, various coatings to bores and sliding parts, longevity in all applications and usage situations would be excellent.

The ATF cooling circuit is also inadequate on the LX600. Check out the Tundra forum, same cooling system, overheat/high temp issues can exist under normal off road conditions.

The largest issue here is what it has been for the better part of two decades, the elimination of the dip stick and easy inspection of fluid condition.

 

[dms]

Tons of info on many ATF fluids. Grab a translator

ATF свежие

Лабораторные анализы ATF cвежие - VOA oil-club.ru Addinol ATF XN 6 Addinol ATF XN 8 Addinol ATF XN Plus Aisin ATF AFW+ Amsoil ATF Fuel Efficient Polaris Laboratory Amsoil DCT Dual-Clutch Transmission Fluid OelCheck Amsoil Signature Series Fuel-Efficient Synthetic ATF Armor Perfect ATF DEX III Arm...

www.oil-club.ru

Is there a Cliff Notes version of what ATF is the best to use in a LX600 and 200 series?

 

[Joe T]

That site has a lot of info you can check the manufacturer numbers against. But its not a list of WS compatible fluid. Oh and I can read it, and notice some lab results are in english if you want to give a stab at it.

I am personally most concerned with viscosity at 100C. Just look for that.

The lab results for WS are 5.3-5.4 per their tests so even lower than what I am finding published.

The fluids I listed above are what I found to be “Best” and I would suggest adding Aimsoil but I don’t understand how they say 7.5 is compatible with WS. Maybe the ATL at 6.3 would be nice.

https://www.amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/databulletins/g3110.pdf

But good to know as it could maybe be used once this thing gets old and sloppy. I think I read something about WS range up to 7.3 per toyota though.



If you want to enter the rabbit hole, look at the Tacoma sites and bobistheoilguy. Just don’t do it anytime after 10pm. There is literally 100s maybe 1000s of pages on forums and lots of Youtube videos.

 

[Joe T]

WS is pretty much the same type of base oils and add pack as the older T IV fluid. It’s a good quality fluid, but the thinner viscosity has the potential to allow too much wear in the valve body/solenoids, especially with heavier use and the silly extended service and lifetime fill recommendations. The clutch and wear metals build up and exacerbate this issue over time, as there is no filter, just a strainer. Had Toyota applied a few durability measures to the valve body, various coatings to bores and sliding parts, longevity in all applications and usage situations would be excellent.

The ATF cooling circuit is also inadequate on the LX600. Check out the Tundra forum, same cooling system, overheat/high temp issues can exist under normal off road conditions.

The largest issue here is what it has been for the better part of two decades, the elimination of the dip stick and easy inspection of fluid condition.

Its not even a synthetic. Its designed to meet environmental regulations and help them save costs.

If you must stick with Toyota then use the Aisin. Its cheaper too which is crazzy.

 

[Oakleyguy]

WS is pretty much the same type of base oils and add pack as the older T IV fluid. It’s a good quality fluid, but the thinner viscosity has the potential to allow too much wear in the valve body/solenoids, especially with heavier use and the silly extended service and lifetime fill recommendations. The clutch and wear metals build up and exacerbate this issue over time, as there is no filter, just a strainer. Had Toyota applied a few durability measures to the valve body, various coatings to bores and sliding parts, longevity in all applications and usage situations would be excellent.

The ATF cooling circuit is also inadequate on the LX600. Check out the Tundra forum, same cooling system, overheat/high temp issues can exist under normal off road conditions.

The largest issue here is what it has been for the better part of two decades, the elimination of the dip stick and easy inspection of fluid condition.

AT Temperature has been dead normal for me on both the GX550 and LX7; with extended 12hr+ days on the trail at altitude in Colorado.

 

[bjowett]

Is there a Cliff Notes version of what ATF is the best to use in a LX600 and 200 series?

Here is the list from the same forum that only include fluids that meet WS. It doesn’t include everything we have available here. As for what is best? A best guess is something with the right add pack and a cst around 6.0 at 100 C. Even thicker fluid could be used, but I suspect we might need a different ECU calibration to get the shift/clutch pack engagement and feel to be appropriate.

Сводная таблица жидкостей АКПП аналогов Toyota Type WS

Сводная таблица жидкостей АКПП - аналоги Toyota Type WS за проведение анализов спасибо всему Ойл Клубу. Последняя редакция 15.09.2022 ATF Toyota WS New.pdf В таблице принимали участие следующие анализы Ойл Клуба: 1) Toyota ATF WS жестебанка 08886-02305 2) Toyoya ATF WS 00289-ATFWS 3) Volvo ATF 31...

www.oil-club.ru

 

[bjowett]

Many of these fluids base oils are group III with some esters in order to match WS. Much of that info is discussed in the forum listed. It’s technically not synthetic, but a good medium that will serve well if inspected and serviced when appropriate.

The Idemitsu brand works well, but it is thin. Perhaps we could blend some T IV of the same brand to bolster up the viscosity?

Good to hear Toyota has the GX and LX dialed in for your driving style. What temps are you seeing?

 

[Joe T]

The Russian site has some fluid that is not available here too. I saw some of the lab tests were done at a lab in Poznan and believe they would be very accurate.

I find it interesting WS differs depending on region its packaged.

This whole thing started off when a mechanic I was talking to mentioned using Lubegard Instant Shudder Fix. Mine is really rough and I am going to drive my F250 till I can change out the fluid.

 

[Joe T]

Here is the list from the same forum that only include fluids that meet WS. It doesn’t include everything we have available here. As for what is best? A best guess is something with the right add pack and a cst around 6.0 at 100 C. Even thicker fluid could be used, but I suspect we might need a different ECU calibration to get the shift/clutch pack engagement and feel to be appropriate.

Сводная таблица жидкостей АКПП аналогов Toyota Type WS

Сводная таблица жидкостей АКПП - аналоги Toyota Type WS за проведение анализов спасибо всему Ойл Клубу. Последняя редакция 15.09.2022 ATF Toyota WS New.pdf В таблице принимали участие следующие анализы Ойл Клуба: 1) Toyota ATF WS жестебанка 08886-02305 2) Toyoya ATF WS 00289-ATFWS 3) Volvo ATF 31...

www.oil-club.ru

I wish I remembered were I read it but someone posted Toyota’s range on WS being something in the low 5s to low 7s cSt @ 100C.

I feel comfortable at 6.0 and the informative email I got from the tech department at Royal Purple. They are also local to me.

If someone wants to pay for it I would test the Aisin, Lubegard, and Amsoil. I really don’t care about my warranty.

 

[Oakleyguy]

Good to hear Toyota has the GX and LX dialed in for your driving style. What temps are you seeing?

I'm not running a scangauge right now, but the AT temp gauge stays dead center on the dash, so I'm guessing 80degC.

Which, a big big thanks to Toyota for finally including an AT Temp Gauge and Engine Oil Temp Gauge!

 

[MRego]

Mine is really rough

Have you taken to the dealer and complained? Do others also have the same roughness as you mention or is it just your car? Maybe you have a warranty-related claim and are trying to solve by yourself (which might also not help with the warranty later).

 

[Joe T]

Oh for ****ing sure Lexus knows of the issue and I drove another 24 with 300 miles on it and it was about the same. What pisses me off more is the characteristics change as the fluid temp changes , so I can’t just adjust my temperament for it.

Engineering said it was normal after doing 40 minutes of data logging with me driving. I complained to Lexus corporate and they bought me new tires hoping that would fix it.

Its minor but just enough to irritate me. I do not think its broken. Its a shutter and erratic shifting issue.

Have had everything from SMG transmissions in high end cars to large splitshift trucks and lots of heavy and light earth moving equipment. I am extremely sensitive to any variations in performance and feel.

I had a similar flutter/shutter in a 10 speed F350 diesel dually in 4th, 5th and 6th gear changes.

I am convinced it is the low viscosity fluid they use in these now.

 

[stiffarm]

What is the forum recommendation on changing the transmission fluid if intervals and cost is not an object?

 

[dms]

What is the forum recommendation on changing the transmission fluid if intervals and cost is not an object?

I changed my former 570 at 50K and will do the same for my LC and 600.

 

[Joe T]

30 to 50k is probably a good idea.

The 75W transfercase oil I will change around 15k with the transmission fluid. I will go with something a little heavier there too and match the transmission intervals.

Crazy the change in drivability by changing from 0-20 to 5-30 motor oil already.

For the record I have not had time to change the transmission fluid yet. I need to take it somewhere and need a few free hours.