Toyota in trouble with diesel owners

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roscoFJ73

roscoFJ73

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absalom said:
I wouldn't be surprised if Toyota throws up their hands, and does away with diesel all together. It doesn't seem like any manufacturer can make a reliable modern diesel.
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All the truck makers have diesel engines sorted. But toyota don't care about diesel. It's only Hilux/Hiace/Landcruiser that still have them and their hilux is burning up to 50% more fuel than some of it's competitors.

The class action lawsuit however sounds like people subjecting toyota diesels to short and cold runs (except for the Dude driving to Uluru). They aren't suited to that. Toyota also have very little experience with DPF and diesel emissions. So other brands aren't having the same issues with the same usage.
 
I honestly am not too bothered by it. Modern diesels just aren't as fun to drive as their pre-DPF ancestors. I had a mk6 TDI and a gen 2 Sprinter, and just never felt the passion that I felt for our HDJ and older TDIs.
 
absalom said:
Modern diesels just aren't as fun to drive as their pre-DPF ancestors.
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Totally agree with that, I've had all the new Mitsubishi Tritons/Nissan Navaras/Mazda Bt50 utes for work and they just don't feel as nice to drive. Yes their fancy gearboxes with tiptronic etc make taking off from light quick and fun but at all other times they sux. They all blow copious amounts of smoke after 50,000km and are worse on fuel then my old school HDFT.
 
absalom said:
I honestly am not too bothered by it. Modern diesels just aren't as fun to drive as their pre-DPF ancestors. I had a mk6 TDI and a gen 2 Sprinter, and just never felt the passion that I felt for our HDJ and older TDIs.
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That's a classic vs modern car thing. Not really anything to do with DPF. Older cars just have more quirks that we remember as good while forgetting the bad.
 
I dont think Toyota will throw the towel in for diesels any time soon. I doubt that will happen within a decade. They will probably fix the above problem like they have with other recalls in the past.
Toyota also has a small truck diesel hybrid in its Hino range, they might even transfer it to a landcruiser or hilux. I think its similar to the Prius in operation
But at the moment , most of the landcruiser/hilux range sold in some markets are diesel and while its profitable and the laws allow it they will keep selling them.
 
roscoFJ73 said:
I dont think Toyota will throw the towel in for diesels any time soon. I doubt that will happen within a decade. They will probably fix the above problem like they have with other recalls in the past.
Toyota also has a small truck diesel hybrid in its Hino range, they might even transfer it to a landcruiser or hilux. I think its similar to the Prius in operation
But at the moment , most of the landcruiser/hilux range sold in some markets are diesel and while its profitable and the laws allow it they will keep selling them.
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The only diesel engine they've got under 14 years old is the 2.8 in the Hilux and new Hiace (ugliest and weirdest van you'll ever see). It's not competitive for fuel economy (+30% on class leaders) and despite having the same power/torque figures as everything else, the hilux is 2 seconds slower to 100km/h!
The v8's in the landcruisers are two 4 cylinder Avensis diesels from 2003 they joined at the hip in 2005. It's clear they're not investing R&D at this stage.

Their hybrid Hino has a 4L or 5L 4 cylinder that won't fit anything in their passenger or light commercial range: HINO TRUCKS - HINO 195h Hybrid Medium Duty Truck https://www.hino.com.au/uploads/pdf/specification/HS300616IFS-1016_Web_(4).pdf

We'll have to wait and see when the 70 and 100 series get replaced.
 
Dougal said:
Their hybrid Hino has a 4L or 5L 4 cylinder that won't fit anything in their passenger or light commercial range:
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I was more thinking that the technology , rather than the engine. I think the Coaster is still using the baby Hino/15B engine which is what the buses are using
 
Dougal said:
The only diesel engine they've got under 14 years old is the 2.8 in the Hilux and new Hiace (ugliest and weirdest van you'll ever see). It's not competitive for fuel economy (+30% on class leaders) and despite having the same power/torque figures as everything else, the hilux is 2 seconds slower to 100km/h!
The v8's in the landcruisers are two 4 cylinder Avensis diesels from 2003 they joined at the hip in 2005. It's clear they're not investing R&D at this stage.
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But the Hilux is the biggest selling car in Australia now and the diesels are very popular. Informed customers are not just looking at 1/4 mile times .
And in regards to the V8 engine block, this is not unusual among automotive manufacturers. They all raid the parts bin to use or modify components. Its cheaper and its already a proven design.
 
Dougal said:
The only diesel engine they've got under 14 years old is the 2.8 in the Hilux and new Hiace (ugliest and weirdest van you'll ever see). It's not competitive for fuel economy (+30% on class leaders) and despite having the same power/torque figures as everything else, the hilux is 2 seconds slower to 100km/h!
The v8's in the landcruisers are two 4 cylinder Avensis diesels from 2003 they joined at the hip in 2005. It's clear they're not investing R&D at this stage.

Their hybrid Hino has a 4L or 5L 4 cylinder that won't fit anything in their passenger or light commercial range: HINO TRUCKS - HINO 195h Hybrid Medium Duty Truck https://www.hino.com.au/uploads/pdf/specification/HS300616IFS-1016_Web_(4).pdf

We'll have to wait and see when the 70 and 100 series get replaced.
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You forgot the 2GD which is a 2.4L and also used in the Hilux, Fortuner and Innova.

Yeah, I don’t think Toyota will ditch the diesel. All Hilux and Hiaces sold here are diesel. In the Fortuner and Innova, the only petrol engine available is the base 2TR 2.7L.

So glad the Toyota models sold here don’t have DPFs or Adblue crap :)
 
Dougal said:
The v8's in the landcruisers are two 4 cylinder Avensis diesels from 2003 they joined at the hip in 2005.
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I told you about this some years back after I read about it in a press report and you scoffed at it.
Are you now stating it as a truth?
 
They are also selling the 1GD FTV here and have done so for 4 years since their inception, and because Toyota Australia also "owns" the NZ and PNG markets, they would presumably also have them in those countries.
 
Dougal said:
Hybridisation is done entirely in the transmission, they can use any engine with no changes other than starter/alternator and flywheel.

The Hilux hasn't been best-seller in NZ almost since the model change. The Ranger took that title several years ago now. Toyota is in a bad place with Hilux sales. It has the smallest cabin (equal with Nissan), narrowest deck, thirstiest engine and lowest performance.
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I said technology which obviously includes the transmission but also the electronic side of it.
NZ is a tiny market
Bad place, really?. Hilux was second in sales at the end of 2018 after the ranger and only by 253 units.
And in April this year Hilux was only 210 units approx behind the Ranger.
 
IMVHO, the day of the diesel has passed!

Modern diesels remind me of the early days of gas/petrol emission systems - Keep the basic design, and hang lots of after crap on to make it meet for the warranty period.

A good buddy ran the largest CAT dealer in the Western US, and recently went to work for Cumins. He claims the new diesels are POS, and the manufacturers are hemorrhaging money on warranty repairs, same for GM, and likely Ford and Dodge.

I have driven nothing but diesels in US for over 30 years. But, when I bought my latest truck/Ute, it has a gas engine. I still own my Isuzu 4BD2 powered 60 LandCruiser, and an older diesel. I will not buy a DPF and Urea filled engine!
 
doug720 said:
IMVHO, the day of the diesel has passed!

Modern diesels remind me of the early days of gas/petrol emission systems - Keep the basic design, and hang lots of after crap on to make it meet for the warranty period.

A good buddy ran the largest CAT dealer in the Western US, and recently went to work for Cumins. He claims the new diesels are POS, and the manufacturers are hemorrhaging money on warranty repairs, same for GM, and likely Ford and Dodge.

I have driven nothing but diesels in US for over 30 years. But, when I bought my latest truck/Ute, it has a gas engine. I still own my Isuzu 4BD2 powered 60 LandCruiser, and an older diesel. I will not buy a DPF and Urea filled engine!
Click to expand...

Couldn't disagree more. Emissions controls on diesels now give no trouble when engines are used appropriately (i.e. not short and cold running). The big over the road truck engines are cleaner, just as reliable and last longer than they used to. While burning less fuel.

I have two DPF equipped diesels now. The oldest one is 11 years old and the only issue was a faulty sensor (batch issue) which threw up a warning light. It has been completely clean and reliable.
 
Hello,

It appears that Toyota engineers messed up with the DPF. They have made mistakes before. Whether they will solve this problem remains to be seen.

A sobering reminder that engineering mistakes are usually catastrophic.

Too bad this problem led to a class action.






Juan
 
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