Any other feedback on the SPCs from early adopters? I am prepared to order these right now if it is confirmed that the built-in additional caster adjustment can actually be felt in real world driving conditions.
Total Chaos vs Slee UCA's
- Thread starter DJWUZJ
- Start date
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anyone know the size of the top nut?
I have a 30 mm and it still doesn't fit
Beamed from my Galaxy 4 using IH8MUD to your computer screen
Not a whole lot of feedback so far-
1) Install is fairly easy; my biggest struggle was unseating the OEM UCA spindle. Having the right pitman arm puller is KEY!! My passenger side OEM UCA was seeping and I never knew until the removal.
2) I am running a 2" rake right now with the slee rear springs; I will raise the front when I can reindex the torsion bars. I want to get to < 1" rake or as close as possible. However, I often tow my 40 with a heavy tongue weight so this needs some more thought.
3) Initially when I lowered the vehicle for the test drive, tranny felt like I wasn't in gear... is this normal? Then I had some clicking and settling when turning the wheel. After the test drive, this all went away.
4) Hwy speeds are very stable now; can't tell if it was due to lowering the front by 1" or the new UCA's or both.
5) Mom and pop shop did my alignment and they only had to adjust cam bolts. I left both sides of the ball joint at the "D" +1 caster setting and alignment tech left them alone.
1 1/4" and torque them to 150ft/lbs
Thanks LT. That's a big'un
FWIW I'd recommend adjusting as much of the caster from the ball joint side. This minimizes getting the inner bushings out of parallel to the mounts = longer life for the bushings.
Presumably the increased caster from your new UCAs is the contributing factor for enhanced stability...that's the way it worked for me.
Did the alignment shop give you post alignment caster #'s?
Curious to know, on average, what max caster the SPC units can get to...
Presumably the increased caster from your new UCAs is the contributing factor for enhanced stability...that's the way it worked for me.
Did the alignment shop give you post alignment caster #'s?
Curious to know, on average, what max caster the SPC units can get to...
We set the Tacoma/4Runner/FJC LR UCA's to the 0* setting and it puts the truck back to factory alignment perfectly every time. We used to set the caster adjustment on position over toward the positive side but it was too aggressive.
For the camber adjustment we pull the ball joint all the way out and that seems to be a good setting for the alignment center to work with.
From the SPC Instructions-
For most trucks with 2-3” of lift,
setting “D” should return caster to factory specifications.
Note: With SPC logo
facing away from the tire
(Position D) this arm will
give +1° additional caster.
Using the star plate, caster
change can be adjusted
facing away from the tire
(Position D) this arm will
give +1° additional caster.
Using the star plate, caster
change can be adjusted
from -1.0° to +3.0°.
I will scan in the alignment sheet later today.
Edit- One other note of observation post install is how close the arm/ball joint is to the tire now. I am running a 295-75-16 Toyo AT2 with 11.6" width tire, I can barely get finger width between the balljoint and the tire. Haven't wheeled yet with airing down so that is a TBD. I am sure Christo tested and this should not be a problem.
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Read through most of the thread. I ran the SPCs on my FJC and they were great. SPC also has upgraded the bushings about 2 years ago. I picked these for my FJC after talking to one of the engineers at SPC back in 2008. I actually had a ball joint fail and SPC replaced it no question asked.
One thing you want to do is don't tighten the ball joint with the tire lifted. You want to load that UCA before you tighten the ball joint. Probably why mine failed, cause I think I did not take care to follow instructions. LT, do I have that correct?
The UCA benefit is they are built for aftermarket lift specs which allow your alignment shop to bring your alignment back to OEM specs for better ride, handling. Also should help with running 35 inch tires, as there should be slightly more clearance between the UCA and inner tire wall.
These really have minimal affect on lift/travel. The difference between the Tundra/FJC/4runner/Taco is they are IFS not Torsion bar. The shock should not limit your travel, although it could. IFS, in my limited experience has more travel than torsion bars, albeit not that much, maybe a couple of inches at best.
I am glad Christo is carrying them, because to me that validates the quality of SPC's UCAs. If they were not to Christo's bomb proof standards, he would carry something else.
Nothing wrong with TCs but you also have to understand where those are made and whom they were designed for. As I understand it, TCs are built for more of a desert high speed driving experience. SPCs are built for Moab/Mountain wheeling.
Hope my rant is helpful..
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I noticed a huge difference in handling when I installed these on my FJC, especially on the freeway.. I know that is very anecdotal but if you get these go for a test drive before you install and swerve and jerk the steering wheel back and forth (at a slow rate of speed
), then do that after you install the SPCs and see if you notice a difference.I did not try this but I remember driving after I installed them and it felt like the truck was more solid and the steering was less jerky.
Helpful, yes. But I found some comments slightly confusing.
This is true if using rubber pivot bushing, i.e. OE style control arm bushing and leaf spring bushings, where the rubber bushing twists as the suspension component pivots. When using a bushing that pivots around a lubricated inner sleeve, no need to apply the weight of the vehicle prior to torquing nuts. Since the ball joint stud does not rotate in the spindle, no need to apply vehicle weight prior to tightening the castle nut.
IFS = Independent Front Suspension. Common types include the ever popular A-Arm style control arm, Macpherson Stut, and Ford's Twin Traction Beam.
Torsion Bar = A torsion spring, or torsion beam. Other types of springs include leaf springs and coil springs.
A torsion bar type suspension can have more travel than a coil spring suspension, depending on the design. My '94 Toyota Pickup with a 1st generation Total Chaos long travel kit with SAW torsion bars and stock ball joints cycled at 13.75" of travel from ball joint bind to ball joint bind. A stock Tacoma has about 8" of travel using a coilover shock. Both trucks use A-Arms.
My understanding is the Total Chaos LC100 series upper control arms, when combined with an extended length shock, allow for up to 1" additional wheel travel. The SPCs don't advertise this feature. Both companies advertise improved wheel alignment with a 2-3" lift. High speed desert driving requires a shock with a significant amount of compression and rebound valving. My opinion is choosing the correct shock for your intended use affects the vehicles suspension characteristics more so than choosing which upper control arm to use.
This is true if using rubber pivot bushing, i.e. OE style control arm bushing and leaf spring bushings, where the rubber bushing twists as the suspension component pivots. When using a bushing that pivots around a lubricated inner sleeve, no need to apply the weight of the vehicle prior to torquing nuts. Since the ball joint stud does not rotate in the spindle, no need to apply vehicle weight prior to tightening the castle nut.
IFS = Independent Front Suspension. Common types include the ever popular A-Arm style control arm, Macpherson Stut, and Ford's Twin Traction Beam.
Torsion Bar = A torsion spring, or torsion beam. Other types of springs include leaf springs and coil springs.
A torsion bar type suspension can have more travel than a coil spring suspension, depending on the design. My '94 Toyota Pickup with a 1st generation Total Chaos long travel kit with SAW torsion bars and stock ball joints cycled at 13.75" of travel from ball joint bind to ball joint bind. A stock Tacoma has about 8" of travel using a coilover shock. Both trucks use A-Arms.
My understanding is the Total Chaos LC100 series upper control arms, when combined with an extended length shock, allow for up to 1" additional wheel travel. The SPCs don't advertise this feature. Both companies advertise improved wheel alignment with a 2-3" lift. High speed desert driving requires a shock with a significant amount of compression and rebound valving. My opinion is choosing the correct shock for your intended use affects the vehicles suspension characteristics more so than choosing which upper control arm to use.
Light Racing recommends tightening the bolts down on frame when there is a full load, not the ball joint. By tightening the bushing side down with no load it puts the UCA in bind which it will not allow it to move freely.
IFS is a term for Independent Front Suspension which is what all modern Toyota's have. The torsion bar is just a different way of suspending the vehicle.
The TC UCA's are designed for all around use not just high speed desert. We run the TC long travel kits on the FJ Cruiser and 4Runner and we are primarily are using our trucks for rock crawling and trail use. The uniball that TC uses is a standard joint used in the desert racing world for its durability under the most extreme conditions.
Ken, they are easy to install. I did mine, well Marco actually did them, I watched..
And Robbie installed for me on my 4runner, I watched then also..
I am going to do them myself this time.
Jason,
And what is your current front hub center to lower fender lip measure?
FWIW I had to add (then) a 10mm wheel spacer to get recovery chain clearance for my 285/75/18 tires (now back to running 1" front and 10mm rear); otherwise probably similar 1/2" clearance between tire sidewall and UCA.
My last bit of curiosity: With the rubber bellows appearing exposed, relative to the sidewall, just wondering how it will hold up once mud/snow/ice enters the equation...?
And what is your current front hub center to lower fender lip measure?
FWIW I had to add (then) a 10mm wheel spacer to get recovery chain clearance for my 285/75/18 tires (now back to running 1" front and 10mm rear); otherwise probably similar 1/2" clearance between tire sidewall and UCA.
My last bit of curiosity: With the rubber bellows appearing exposed, relative to the sidewall, just wondering how it will hold up once mud/snow/ice enters the equation...?
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Ken, they are easy to install. I did mine, well Marco actually did them, I watched..
And Robbie installed for me on my 4runner, I watched then also..
I am going to do them myself this time.
Correction, someone else will be installing my new set of SPC UCAs. Stay tuned for photos should you all need visual assistance when installing..
hoser
SILVER Star
Since this seems to be the SPC install thread, I'll post this about the torque spec:
From SPC's FAQ:
6. Q. The upper nut on my ball joint came loose. How can I prevent this?
6. A. This may occur on arms that have been powder coated or painted, but also occasionally on trucks with very large tires that are used for rough rock crawling. We have revised the torque spec on the top nut from 120 ft lb to 150 to combat this issue. If you feel that you are at risk from having the nut come loose, you can torque it up to 175ftlb. If you have decided to powder coat or put on another secondary paint, it is recommended that you re-torque the nut a day or two after the initial alignment, as added coatings tend to compress, and may affect clamping torque.
From SPC's FAQ:
6. Q. The upper nut on my ball joint came loose. How can I prevent this?
6. A. This may occur on arms that have been powder coated or painted, but also occasionally on trucks with very large tires that are used for rough rock crawling. We have revised the torque spec on the top nut from 120 ft lb to 150 to combat this issue. If you feel that you are at risk from having the nut come loose, you can torque it up to 175ftlb. If you have decided to powder coat or put on another secondary paint, it is recommended that you re-torque the nut a day or two after the initial alignment, as added coatings tend to compress, and may affect clamping torque.
Does anyone know what the torque settings are for the upper A-arm bolts when installing the SPC aftermarket A-arms? I'm in the middle of installing them and the instructions tell me to use factory settings. Unfortunately, I have no clue what those are. Help!?
