Too little front suspension travel?

[Old Line Overland]

Hi Mudders,

I'm new to Land Cruisers but not new to Toyotas and modifying them.

96 4Runner

• Old Line Overland
• Oct 25, 2015

I purchased a 98 Land Cruiser earlier this year to haul more gear and be more comfortable on longer trips. Knowing how capable they are, my goal was to keep modifying to a minimum. I replaced the shocks almost immediately with Bilstein 4600s per recommendations from this forum.

Fully loaded on our first trip to Nova Scotia this summer it was evident that stock springs weren't up to the task. I decided on OME 865s because of their increased spring rate, low lift height, and the fact that they were much cheaper than new stock springs. Plus I'm familiar with OME since I had it on my 4Runner. My plan was to crank the torsion bars to get back to a 1" rake after installing the new springs.

This is where I ran into an issue.

The 865s gave me about a 1.5" lift as advertised. When I went to raise the front, I was limited to 515mm (center of hub to fender) with 60mm of droop. This leaves me with about a 2 to 2.5" rake. From what I have read it's unusual to be limited to this height as lots of people are lifting their front ends much higher. My only thought is that my shock is limiting my droop. Are these Bilstein's (part# BIL24-027397) known to be shorter than others? I know the rears are but I never read anything about the fronts.

Any help would be much appreciated. I'm thinking about just going to OME shocks but I don't want to pull the trigger until I know that I'm not going to run into the same issue.

98 Land Cruiser - West Virginia stream crossing

• Old Line Overland
• Oct 25, 2015

 

[benc]

I can't say anything for the 4600 but I do know the OME limit the travel and provide a very harsh ride on a lifted application.


Sent from my iPhone

 

[duggy]

I had Bilstiens on the front and they were in fact shorter than my Fox 2.0s that I installed. They provided a very harsh jarring in the front end when I would go over speed bumps. My 100 definitely enjoys the Fox's more as it provides a much better ride.

 

[jcrandall]

I couldn't find any definitive info on the 4600 Bilsteins on this site or any other. So I gave them a try. On a lifted rig the slightly shorter front shock length (IIRC ~1"), really limits things. I was topping them out on Dallas streets, not to mention off highway. Not sure you need to go Fox or other top end, but from experience OME or longer is the way to go.

 

[TwiceWithHair]

No complaints about my fox's. Some people don't like em, but on an otherwise stock rig, I enjoy them a lot.


...via IH8MUD app

 

[Old Line Overland]

Thank you for the replies. I think I'm just going to order the OME shocks and compare the lengths myself.

For what it's worth the Bilsteins performed very well at stock height unloaded. However, once loaded up with camping gear plus a rooftop tent and awning, they were very "wallowy". From experience I know the OME shocks should take care of this. Hopefully they are long enough to allow me to lift the front while still maintaining a safe and comfortable amount of droop. I'll post back on this thread when I figure everything out.

For those interested I may be parting with my very low milage Bilsteins in the near future.

 

[OregonLC]

I know I'm an exception here, but I couldn't be more happy with my extended travel RadFlo shocks with TC UCAs. I'd have to look up in my notes but IIRC I picked up about 1.25" of travel in the front and almost 2" in the rear. The only complaint I have is that they're a little stiff over small bumps on the road when cold. Once they warm up they're fantastic, especially with a heavy rig (I roll at 7300) on big hits. I know some other early users had problems with clicking. Mine have been completely silent.

 

[benc]

Like I said, the OME will not give you the travel you need if you plan to lift. I believe the OME are stock length. I have them on mine with about a 2" lift and the front is constantly bottoming out.
Will be removing these and going with the icons as soon as the funds allow. The OME are really not designed for a lifted application.


Sent from my iPhone

 

[Hayes]

Like I said, the OME will not give you the travel you need if you plan to lift. I believe the OME are stock length. I have them on mine with about a 2" lift and the front is constantly bottoming out.
Will be removing these and going with the icons as soon as the funds allow. The OME are really not designed for a lifted application.


Sent from my iPhone

This is not accurate.
As long as you're buying the correct OME shock (60000/60001), they are indeed designed for a lifted application.

 

[Hayes]

Looking at this thread here:
Shock Length Thread

The Bilsteins extended length is almost and inch and a half shorter than the OME. They are probably the culprit.
Others will have to speak to the realities of truly extended length shocks (longer than the OMEs), but consider that the upper arm can become a limiting factor. The Icon extended length shocks specify an aftermarket upper arm because of this.

 

[Old Line Overland]

Looking at this thread here:
Shock Length Thread

The Bilsteins extended length is almost and inch and a half shorter than the OME. They are probably the culprit.
Others will have to speak to the realities of truly extended length shocks (longer than the OMEs), but consider that the upper arm can become a limiting factor. The Icon extended length shocks specify an aftermarket upper arm because of this.

That's what I was thinking. Even if the OME shocks are stock length, I think that's still longer than the Bilsteins I have. Keep in mind I'm only lifting about an inch so the OME should work fine.

Icons would be nice but I'm not putting them on a 17 year old truck. Maybe when I get a new 4Runner.

 

[OregonLC]

..consider that the upper arm can become a limiting factor. The Icon extended length shocks specify an aftermarket upper arm because of this.

Absolutely correct. The web in the OE UCA will pinch a long travel shock.

Icons would be nice but I'm not putting them on a 17 year old truck. Maybe when I get a new 4Runner.

I guess that's one way to look at it. The other would be that it was a $60k truck when new. But regardless, quality of ride is quality of ride. Whether you're spending aftermarket dollars on a new vehicle or an old vehicle, there is no 'investment' to be regained.

 

[benc]

This is not accurate.
As long as you're buying the correct OME shock (60000/60001), they are indeed designed for a lifted application.

I have the correct shocks and if they were designed for lifted application it was a poor design! Its not just about the travel but also the shocks ability to dampen the rebound of the added preload from cranking up the torsion bars. The ome is not up to the task. This will not be as bad with 1in of lift but you will still get the harsh unloading while off road or over a speed bump, it will be the worst up hills! When you add more preload by cranking up the TB the tire will unload much quicker and with much more force than it did stock,
What I know, is me and many others are very unhappy with the performance of the ome shocks on these rigs when lifted.


Sent from my iPhone

 

[Hayes]

I have the correct shocks and if they were designed for lifted application it was a poor design! Its not just about the travel but also the shocks ability to dampen the rebound of the added preload from cranking up the torsion bars. The ome is not up to the task. This will not be as bad with 1in of lift but you will still get the harsh unloading while off road or over a speed bump, it will be the worst up hills! When you add more preload by cranking up the TB the tire will unload much quicker and with much more force than it did stock,
What I know, is me and many others are very unhappy with the performance of the ome shocks on these rigs when lifted.


Sent from my iPhone

No argument on their ride quality.

 

[Old Line Overland]

Ok so OME 60000 shocks have been installed up front. This has solved my issue. The OMEs have provided 3cm more droop compared to the Bilstein BIL24-027397. I'm now sitting level with 80mm of droop and the ride is fantastic.

A quick comparison for those interested:

The Bilsteins have a stiffer compression than the OMEs, but a faster rebound. In my opinion this would be great at stock height. The vehicle has less up travel therefore requiring a stiffer shock to not bottom out so easy. Faster rebound ensures the suspension doesn't pack up on successive impacts (important when you have less travel). When lifted, the shock doesn't have optimal droop and the faster rebound makes the ride feel "tippy". The added preload from cranking the torsion bars only makes the rebound faster.

When lifted, the OMEs can rely on a softer compression with the added preload from torsion bars. However, they need a slower rebound to help dampen that added preload. The slower rebound makes all the difference in ride quality.

I have the correct shocks and if they were designed for lifted application it was a poor design! Its not just about the travel but also the shocks ability to dampen the rebound of the added preload from cranking up the torsion bars. The ome is not up to the task. This will not be as bad with 1in of lift but you will still get the harsh unloading while off road or over a speed bump, it will be the worst up hills! When you add more preload by cranking up the TB the tire will unload much quicker and with much more force than it did stock,
What I know, is me and many others are very unhappy with the performance of the ome shocks on these rigs when lifted.


Sent from my iPhone

I can say that I have not experienced any harsh ride characteristics. Perhaps being lifted higher makes all the difference. Mine ride great.


I love the ride with the OMEs. Much more controlled, yet still plush. Hope this helps someone else!