Tires!

[krokarthecrooked]

Well the Km2's decent tires but not for everyday driving they will wear alot faster than anything u buy off the shelf they are a softer compound than all terrains or mtr's you buy off the shelf just somehin to consider about the KM2's the crawler guys love them because of the softer compound


Dan

 

[geocrasher]

My 60 (next year, gotta save up the $$ to buy one!) is going to be at least 50% off road and only a few thousand miles a year, and nothing too extreme. Very light rock crawling, maybe. I'm thinking a lighter tire is better. Less unsprung weight means better handling and mileage on the road (if that even matters in a 60 LOL)

I look forward to seeing what you guys end up with.

 

[DiscoveredLC]

Are you going to try the gear install yourself or have someone do it? I'd hate for you to "pay" twice for the gear install. Now having said that, obviously if you have someone do the install now and then later decide to do the ARB, it should be a "little" cheaper/easier. Hopefully the pinion depth won't change, so that makes life easier. But of course the routing/drilling/testing of the ARB will probably eat up any savings.

Are the 33's worn out already?

As I said earlier, I agree that buying tires sucks. I am still months away from buying and I am driving myself nuts with choices. MTR's and KM2's seem to polarize people when it comes to opinions, some really like them and others really hate them.

Good luck.

Jack

I was going to have a shop do the install in the 3rd, then I would bolt everything back up. Would it be bad for the gears if I had the lockers installed later? Meaning they might night set them back to where they were before, causing a wear issue after the locker is installed?

My dad has the exact same tire I have on his Ford. He said he would buy mine if I decide to swap since he needs new tires already.

 

[locrwln1]

I was going to have a shop do the install in the 3rd, then I would bolt everything back up. Would it be bad for the gears if I had the lockers installed later? Meaning they might night set them back to where they were before, causing a wear issue after the locker is installed?

My dad has the exact same tire I have on his Ford. He said he would buy mine if I decide to swap since he needs new tires already.

Gotcha. And no the gears don't care. As long as they set everything up correctly everytime, it's all good.

That helps on the tires. Have you looked at the Cooper ST Maxx? Pretty aggressive AT with good ratings on treadwear. Discount Tire can get them and will price match. They are fairly new, so sizes are limited. That is another tire I am looking at. I did some more looking on the Nitto Trail Grapplers, and like the Toyo MT's, they run very wide, so those are out for me.

Jack

 

[DiscoveredLC]

Gotcha. And no the gears don't care. As long as they set everything up correctly everytime, it's all good.

That helps on the tires. Have you looked at the Cooper ST Maxx? Pretty aggressive AT with good ratings on treadwear. Discount Tire can get them and will price match. They are fairly new, so sizes are limited. That is another tire I am looking at. I did some more looking on the Nitto Trail Grapplers, and like the Toyo MT's, they run very wide, so those are out for me.

Jack

yeah I figured he could get a new set of good tires on the cheap, and I could work towards going the route I want.

Thats a VERY good looking tire too! Its aggressive, but also seems like a tire that would wear well and ride nice on those long trips. Thats the type of tire im looking for. Too bad they dont offer them in a 315, or I would seriously consider them.

 

[spressomon]

Matt, if you install your gears now with the notion of going ARB's front and rear later that's a duplication of spending another $400-$600 labor and whatever additional parts may be required to do the R&P set-up portion of the job again...

Since going 35" gets proportionately more expensive with other related down stream mods/parts and you're only picking up an inch of ground clearance have you given serious thought to just running 33" until you can afford to have the gears AND the ARB's installed at the same time?

A stock geared 80, especially OBDII, on 33's without all the extra burden of heavy drawers, bumpers, skids, etc. is pretty darn capable.

An aside: The trend for heavily laden 80's is 5.29's. Do you have the 4.88's already?

Just trying to be your "devil's advocate" voice

 

[thumper]

I will agree with most of the advice that was given. I was going to go to 4.88s, but thought that I would eventually end up with 37s and would probably want to regear to 5.29s at that point. I decided to just go with 5.29s to start with and be done with it. As for lockers, I was fortunate to have the electrics from the factory. If however I didn't have them, I would only want to pay to have the diffs set up once with everything and call it done. I would rather save up some more and just have everything taken care of at the same time.

I know the next set of tires will be 37s, just not sure which ones at this point, but being that my tires still have a ton of life left, I am in no rush.

Jon

 

[WILLD420]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone except an early Jeep guy complain that their gears were too low. I could have easily gone 4.88's and I have a V8 with 35's.

 

[chicago]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone except an early Jeep guy complain that their gears were too low. I could have easily gone 4.88's and I have a V8 with 35's.

I have. I am actually a BIT concerned about that with my vortec. I've got 4.88 in mine and am concerned (just s bit) about the road speeds.

 

[geocrasher]

I had a '73 K20 once with 4.56's and only 33's. It was too low. I could've gone to 35's or 37's easily. I was winding it up around 60mph. When I got the truck it was stock, with an SM465. That thing could craaaaaaaaawl.

 

[DiscoveredLC]

Matt, if you install your gears now with the notion of going ARB's front and rear later that's a duplication of spending another $400-$600 labor and whatever additional parts may be required to do the R&P set-up portion of the job again...

Since going 35" gets proportionately more expensive with other related down stream mods/parts and you're only picking up an inch of ground clearance have you given serious thought to just running 33" until you can afford to have the gears AND the ARB's installed at the same time?

A stock geared 80, especially OBDII, on 33's without all the extra burden of heavy drawers, bumpers, skids, etc. is pretty darn capable.

An aside: The trend for heavily laden 80's is 5.29's. Do you have the 4.88's already?

Just trying to be your "devil's advocate" voice

I could stick with the 33's for a while, but I honestly would like to move up. If I was to add in the cost of the ARB's, that would be over 2x the cost of the tires and gear install. 1k a piece for the lockers, then a compressor, and a wiring kit. It adds up to be over 4k when all said and done! Thats not in the budget range for a LONG time, and right now I can make the switch with my dad, and get the tires ive been wanting. I've had a complete set of 4.88's sitting in my closet (with install kits) for a while. I drove jacks 80 before he sold it and I liked the rpm range it was at on the freeway. I had 4.11's in my Rover with 33's and it was too low of a gear for freeway speeds, and I hated that on long trips.

Thanks for looking out Dan! I know it may seem strange to want to pay for another install later down the road, but Im ok with that knowing the lockers wont come for a while. I'd like to make this change now, and then start on my rear bumper build later this fall.

 

[thumper]

I think I left out some information...

Originally, I went from stock size tire to 285s then I went to 315s. I did NOT change gears right away. Stayed that way for several months. I didn't have the zip, not sure my truck had that much zip back then but, with use of the power button and turning the OD button off when around town it wasn't bad. It did take me awhile to save up, but I did not have the ARB locker x2, compressor, wiring, etc. expense. I did start with getting all the parts I would need seals, bearings, etc. as the shop that did mine had no issues using my own parts. Hopefully that helps a little more? If I was to do it again, I would do it the same way, buy the parts as I could get them using sales, someone selling stuff from an abandoned project, etc. and when I had all the stuff, get them installed. Paying for labor to do the job twice doesn't sit well with me. I wish I could set up diffs, would have saved me a lot of money.

Jon

 

[locrwln1]

As I mentioned earlier, the hard part of gear set up is pinion depth and preload, which shouldn't change with a diff change (that is set by the gear manufacturer). It is possible for the pinion depth to change with a change in the diff, but it's not that common (of course if your luck is anything like mine ).

That means that on the non e-locker toyota thirds, all you should have to do is re-set the pattern for backlash (side to side adjustment).

I have the dial indicator and a much better understanding of what to do for making the pattern match what was set up by a shop. Also make sure you keep the specs from the gear maker for the backlash setting.

The only problem I had when I did the gears on my 80 is not realizing how much effort was required to make the crush sleeves "crush." My patterns were perfect (took a while for me and the to get them there). Learned a lot about it though and even more since then. Again the pinion depth (without the tool) is hard/time consuming for novices. Diffs with adjusters are much easier than shimmed diffs when it comes to setting up gears also. That was the other frustrating part with the e-locker rear, shims. Put everything togther, measure, take everything apart, change shim thickness, put everything back together, measure...

So basically if you decided to pay for the gear install now and get the ARB's later, I am pretty sure we could install them.

I feel your pain, I know it's tough when you want to get it done now. By the way, I didn't realize ARB's had gotten that expensive. I guess the exchange rate is that bad.

Jack

 

[rusty_tlc]

I kind of get what Jack is saying. I think the big thing is to get rid of the crush sleeve, Kurt at Cruiser outfitters can hook you up there. Then it comes down to having the right shims, if I understand the procedure correctly.

 

[DiscoveredLC]

Sounds good jack!

I made sure to get solid spacers instead of crush sleeves. Does that make thing easier? Someday ill learn the ins and outs of setting up a 3rd.

Yup, they aren't cheap! Can't remember what they were for the rover, but cruiser outfitters is selling them for just under a grand a piece.

 

[spressomon]

The currency exchange rate has gone from $.60 to $1.08 in 3-years. And that reflects the old versus the new ARB locker price. I think I paid $600 for my ARB locker...but that was back in 2006. But they've made positive changes to their design since then too!

 

[WILLD420]

I can help you with gears if you pick a time when I'm not swamped with other things. It can't be any harder than doing a Dana 70.

Setup bearings are worth their weight in gold. Make your own with old bearings and a sandpaper roll in a high speed air grinder. Just make sure they are the same brand as your new bearings... Ask me someday how I figured that one out...

 

[locrwln1]

Sounds good jack!

I made sure to get solid spacers instead of crush sleeves. Does that make thing easier? Someday ill learn the ins and outs of setting up a 3rd.

Yup, they aren't cheap! Can't remember what they were for the rover, but cruiser outfitters is selling them for just under a grand a piece.

The solid spacers are mo' betta, and with the right tools are easier to set up. Again, if you have a pinion depth tool, that makes life easier. On the face of the pinion, there are a set of numbers, that is the "depth" of the pinion from the carrier bearing center. So you measure the old crush sleeve, install solid spacer with shims to match (using dummy bearings), assemble everything and measure. What ever the difference is between what the depth is and what it should be, is the thickness of shims you add or subtract from the solid spacer, re-install, set the drag (in-lb torque wrench with dial indicator needed) and the pinion is done.

Then it is a matter of setting the backlash, which the gears should have the specs for (usually between .008-.012 ish). Adjust the side adjusters until you reach those specs, run a pattern check and make any final adjustments (if neccessary) and call it good.

As many gears that get changed in the club, maybe the club could use some of the money in the bank to buy some diff tools (in/lb torque wrench, pinion depth tool and diff bearing pullers). Then when someone needs it done, they are available. They could be stored with someone like Rusty or Sean. Just an idea.

Jack

 

[DiscoveredLC]

update time.

Having Samco throw on the 315/75/16 KM2's tomorrow. Mounted and balanced for $1538!

Also, Ive decided to put off the gears for a little while so I can save up another $1100 for an ARB and mini compressor. I figured I'd atleast put one in the rear axle while im at it. The truck isnt my DD, so it wont hurt having the 315's on stock gears for a month or so before I make the switch to 4.88's. An ARB in the rear will help out a LOT, and its not a crawler so I should be fine with one locker for a while.

My dad decided he didnt want the tires, so Im selling the BFG AT's to a friend for $600.

 

[thumper]

That's great Matt, but pictures or it didn't happen

I went a lot longer than 1 month on stock gears when I went to 315s. You aren't going to hurt them and if you don't go up any grades, you won't notice it too much. Use the Power button and take over drive off and it's not too shabby.

Jon