Did you notice drop in fuel economy? Is your tire a P-metric or LT?
tire recommendation
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Did you notice drop in fuel economy? Is your tire a P-metric or LT?
What wrong with Coopers? The AT3 XLT has received great reviews, including the cooper 4S. I’m debating between, the XLT, KO2 and Ridge Grappler. If tire weight is a concern, the XLT is the lightest and then the KO2 by a small margin. Wes lives up in Montana and needs a solid A/T and if he’s in Bozeman area, snow storms can hit you on what was supposed to be a clear day. I think he’d be better with an XLT over the Cooper 4S and i would not recommend a KO2 for heavy snow driving. The KO2 was ok for me when I had it on my LC in Colorado during the winter but it hated hardback snow. I agree the LT Defender series are a great tire as well. The Cooper 4S is truly light but limited on sizes. I would buy it but they don’t offer a 285/75/17
My philosophy may be different from others. In my mind, after researching basically every known truck tires, i am down to two tires...unless something new comes out. I chose KO2 because i do off-road and i want peace of mind regarding puncture resistance. BUT, i chose stock size (285/60/18) to avoid the issues with going with a taller tires (zapping acceleration esp on highway passes, wear & tear, etc.). Ground clearance is not a big issue for me...stock 9.8" clearance and approach/departure are fine for my needs. Having to change tire in the middle of desert heat or freezing temp is not fun nor safe for me (and family).
BUT, i may go to Michelin Defender LT next time...but to do that i would have to upsize to 285/65/18, which is off spec and very expensive ($$$$ + adding spare). But since Defender LT is around 7 lbs lighter than my stock sized KO2, i figure that the stress on components and acceleration difference won't be much different. Defender obviously has less aggressive thread for off-roading. The sidewall is TWO ply...but from everything that i have read, it is one tough-ass tire. You can air it down without issue. The Evertread is about as tough as anything out there. The sidewall is very strong for a 2-ply carcass.
Yokohama G015 was also up there with Defender...until recent TireRack comparison (above) showed that it's fuel economy (in P-metric no less) was outright shameful! Imagine how bad it is with LT G015! I know that G015 excel at other aspects...but fuel economy worst than KO2 is unacceptable IMHO.
Coopers...when i researched them...i love that they are USA. Tread looks good. BUT reading more and more into them, it seems like it is a crapshoot. Some people love them. Some hated them because of balance issues etc.. And the ratio b/w happy and piss-off seems to be closer than with other tires.
Falkens are great value but they are heavy as hell due to using regular steel belts/plies/cords to keep prices low...the more expensive brands (basically everyone else) use high-tensile steel plies which offer same strength but much lighter in weight. Even though they roll over the ply for better sidewall protection, i have read of several sidewall puncture stories on other forums. And you know me and tire weight! LOL
In addition, for better or worst, i trust big name tire OEMs...Bridgestone, Michelin (and BFG), Goodyear, Yokohama, Continental...over the smaller brands (Falken, Nitto, etc.). But that's just me...i am a brand whore.
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Don’t get me wrong, I like the KO2 more as an everyday AT tire. They are lighter compared to many A/T in similar category. The XLT cooper is even lighter for such and aggressive thick ply tire. I think where people have negative reviews many times, is that you have to rotate your tires every 5k and I’m willing to bet many of them don’t do it. I have also researched the death out of finding the impossible perfect tire but for me anyways, it comes down to the KO2, Cooper XLT, and Ridge Grappler. All three of these have great reviews and some bad ones...again most likely they forget or they are cheap whom don’t want to spend the extra few bucks to rotate them and make sure they are balanced properly every 5k. The Cooper XLT is a big seller and well tested in Australia’s outback. yeah, i still can’t decideMy philosophy may be different from others. In my mind, after researching basically every known truck tires, i am down to two tires...unless something new comes out. I chose KO2 because i do off-road and i want peace of mind regarding puncture resistance. BUT, i chose stock size (285/60/18) to avoid the issues with going with a taller tires (zapping acceleration esp on highway passes, wear & tear, etc.). Ground clearance is not a big issue for me...stock 9.8" clearance and approach/departure are fine for my needs. Having to change tire in the middle of desert heat or freezing temp is not fun nor safe for me (and family).
BUT, i may go to Michelin Defender LT next time...but to do that i would have to upsize to 285/65/18, which is off spec and very expensive ($$$$ + adding spare). But since Defender LT is around 7 lbs lighter than my stock sized KO2, i figure that the stress on components and acceleration difference won't be much different. Defender obviously has less aggressive thread for off-roading. The sidewall is TWO ply...but from everything that i have read, it is one tough-ass tire. You can air it down without issue. The Evertread is about as tough as anything out there. The sidewall is very strong for a 2-ply carcass.
Yokohama G015 was also up there with Defender...until recent TireRack comparison (above) showed that it's fuel economy (in P-metric no less) was outright shameful! Imagine how bad it is with LT G015! I know that G015 excel at other aspects...but fuel economy worst than KO2 is unacceptable IMHO.
Coopers...when i researched them...i love that they are USA. Tread looks good. BUT reading more and more into them, it seems like it is a crapshoot. Some people love them. Some hated them because of balance issues etc.. And the ratio b/w happy and piss-off seems to be closer than with other tires.
Falkens are great value but they are heavy as hell due to using regular steel belts/plies/cords to keep prices low...the more expensive brands (basically everyone else) use high-tensile steel plies which offer same strength but much lighter in weight. Even though they roll over the ply for better sidewall protection, i have read of several sidewall puncture stories on other forums. And you know me and tire weight! LOL
In addition, for better or worst, i trust big name tire OEMs...Bridgestone, Michelin (and BFG), Goodyear, Yokohama, Continental...over the smaller brands (Falken, Nitto, etc.). But that's just me...i am a brand whore.
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I am not sure of the mpg for the G015 in the study. Tirerack did say that conditions did vary since they weren't tested on same day. I find it hard that a K02 that weighs 10lbs more than a G015 and has more aggressive tread gets better mpg unless the G015 has very sticky tread compared to a harder K02 tread. The G015 has a 60k mileage warranty compared to 50k for K02 so that would suggest that the tread isn't softer.My philosophy may be different from others. In my mind, after researching basically every known truck tires, i am down to two tires...unless something new comes out. I chose KO2 because i do off-road and i want peace of mind regarding puncture resistance. BUT, i chose stock size (285/60/18) to avoid the issues with going with a taller tires (zapping acceleration esp on highway passes, wear & tear, etc.). Ground clearance is not a big issue for me...stock 9.8" clearance and approach/departure are fine for my needs. Having to change tire in the middle of desert heat or freezing temp is not fun nor safe for me (and family).
BUT, i may go to Michelin Defender LT next time...but to do that i would have to upsize to 285/65/18, which is off spec and very expensive ($$$$ + adding spare). But since Defender LT is around 7 lbs lighter than my stock sized KO2, i figure that the stress on components and acceleration difference won't be much different. Defender obviously has less aggressive thread for off-roading. The sidewall is TWO ply...but from everything that i have read, it is one tough-ass tire. You can air it down without issue. The Evertread is about as tough as anything out there. The sidewall is very strong for a 2-ply carcass.
Yokohama G015 was also up there with Defender...until recent TireRack comparison (above) showed that it's fuel economy (in P-metric no less) was outright shameful! Imagine how bad it is with LT G015! I know that G015 excel at other aspects...but fuel economy worst than KO2 is unacceptable IMHO.
Coopers...when i researched them...i love that they are USA. Tread looks good. BUT reading more and more into them, it seems like it is a crapshoot. Some people love them. Some hated them because of balance issues etc.. And the ratio b/w happy and piss-off seems to be closer than with other tires.
Falkens are great value but they are heavy as hell due to using regular steel belts/plies/cords to keep prices low...the more expensive brands (basically everyone else) use high-tensile steel plies which offer same strength but much lighter in weight. Even though they roll over the ply for better sidewall protection, i have read of several sidewall puncture stories on other forums. And you know me and tire weight! LOL
In addition, for better or worst, i trust big name tire OEMs...Bridgestone, Michelin (and BFG), Goodyear, Yokohama, Continental...over the smaller brands (Falken, Nitto, etc.). But that's just me...i am a brand whore.
P Metric. No loss in mileage. Much more modern compound and tread pattern over the KO2. Safe on ice and snow, and quiet.
What size did you go with? I am looking at these for my LX as well.
I had 275/60R20 TerrainContacts on my LX570 last summer. Surprisingly they rubbed the UCA and mud flap, where my previous BFG KO2 275/70R18s (which should technically be 1/4" taller and same width) did not. The Continentals had great highway performance and acceptable offroad. I experienced about a 10% mpg reduction, and penalty to acceleration and braking, but that's because of the increased size and weight. I ended up returning them because of the rub and wanting something more aggressive for my offroad adventures.
I'm also eying the Cooper AT3 XLT and Ridge Grapplers. Will ultimately depend on how aggressive I decide to go.
(As a footnote, I'm not a big fan of the KO2s)
I'm also eying the Cooper AT3 XLT and Ridge Grapplers. Will ultimately depend on how aggressive I decide to go.
(As a footnote, I'm not a big fan of the KO2s)
Were the TerrainContacts P-metric? I don’t see the Continentals in an LT tire in that size. Are you saying a P metric TerrainContact was 10% worse mpg than a LT KO2?
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A few weeks ago Discount Tire put on Yokohama Geolander A/T G015 285/60 R 18. Our family needs a tire that is very quiet on the highway, great in the snow/rain, and above average off-road. So far this tire is very quiet and is great in the snow/rain. Haven't taken it off-road yet.
The tire the previous owner had on the Cruiser was the Cooper Discoverer Plus. The Coopers performed HORRIBLY in the rain, snow, and off-road. It was a bit squishy at highway speeds when turning.
The tire the previous owner had on the Cruiser was the Cooper Discoverer Plus. The Coopers performed HORRIBLY in the rain, snow, and off-road. It was a bit squishy at highway speeds when turning.
How’s your fuel economy on the G015??
According to TireRack, G015 is a GREAT tire but with crappy mileage (worst than KO2!!!): https://www.tirerack.com/tires/test...7f9f&cjevent=2dc9b59a5e4511ea806701240a1c0e10
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Coopers:
Highway 21-22
City 16-18
Geolanders:
Highway 18-20
City 14-18
I really loved the gas mileage with the Coopers. But every time the Cruiser hit standing water (ie, 1-2 inches) it quickly lost traction. We were in a rain storm with standing water on the highway. The Cruiser lost traction and I had to shift down to bring it back to control. Every other car on the highway passed us.
I don't believe this narrative is completely accurate. There's other beneficial factors that add to the weight of this particular tire. Namely, the AT3Ws have some of the deepest treads among AT tires. Rubber adds significant weight. As a comparison, in a 285/65r18, the AT3W is 18mm tread depth vs KO2 @15mm tread. Some of their extreme sizes have 20mm of tread depth. I interpret that extra weight as value rather than a demerit.
If deep tread, then why is their real world mileage so low?
I have read that basically they wear out by 30-40k in real world.
But it is true that they use cheap steel plies.
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NEW tire coming from Toyo this month: Open Country A/T III | The All-Terrain Tires for Trucks, SUVs and CUVs
Decent weight. About 2-3 lbs less than equivalent KO2. Seemingly 2-ply sidewall. Good tread design.
Decent weight. About 2-3 lbs less than equivalent KO2. Seemingly 2-ply sidewall. Good tread design.
Many ways to skin a cat. Sure, if you want to focus on steel plies, be my guest.
Let's not forget where the rubber meets the road:
1) I'm 25k miles in on mine. Tire wear has been excellent and I expect 50k easy for these tires have born serious loads and aggressive driving
2) These tires have delivered in everything I have asked them to including off-road, towing, rain, snow, ice, and hard tarmac driving. With excellent wear. And very good NVH despite being an aggressive AT tire.
3) Value - I bought these tires for everything in #2. Cost wasn't even a factor in my decision. The fact that they are an excellent cost value was gravy.
4) My LX uses literal tons of steel. I don't consider her cheap
#4 is hilarious. Totally missed the point. Lol
but hey I can go down your rabbit hole... one of the main improvement to LC200 series FRAME is the liberal use of high tensile steel instead of regular steel in prior generations in an effort to keep weight in check while still strong as hell.
I agree with this. And my AT 275 65 18 Ps (LC) get similar to sticker mileage.
Nice solution for on road and light AT - great at everything but moderate-to-difficult off-roading because it’s not designed for that. Good looking tire too IMO.
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Did I miss the point? Or did you?
Products are built to meet requirements and performance targets. The fact that the AT3W met those targets, by doing more with less, is commendable in my book.
Said another way, I don't care so much about the recipe as I care how about how it tastes.
Don't get me wrong because the KO2 has its place. For me it doesn't meet my personal needs in my mixed travels. It doesn't do well in snow or ice. Doesn't do as well in rain. Has higher NVH on account of its firmer and potentially harder wearing rubber compound. All while costing significantly more.
It didn't matter in the least that KO2s used high tensile steel if it doesn't perform where I need it to in my use.
There's actually engineering reasons why the AT3W may use regular steel. Mild steels are more ductile. High tensile steels, potentially more brittle to deformation. Combine that with cold which the AT3W are designed for, mild steel has advantages as high tensile steels become even more brittle in these conditions.
Did you say this with straight face?
So, Michelin, Bridgestone, BFG, Goodyear, etc using high tensile strength plies are wrong especially in their winter offering?!?!? Yikes. Oh no my plies about to become brittle!! Lol
Falken used cheap steel because they want to keep prices down. That’s it. There is no other reason. Cheap steel plies = increased tire weight...and that is bad.
As for KO2, my KO2s are very quiet. Handles rain fine for an aggressive AT. TireRack testing agreed. Heck, KO2 even not the worst in fuel economy.
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afgman786
SILVER Star
Maybe they've got the same mentality as Mr. T if it ain't broke why change it? Lol
Heavier tires have there place to be beneficial
Heavier tires have there place to be beneficial
