Tire opinions... Michelin Defender LTX M/S vs Toyo Open Country AT3 vs (something else?)

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MissouriLC

MissouriLC

Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Threads
30
Messages
271
Location
St. Louis, Missouri
(Cross posting this in the Tire and Wheel Tech Forum as well)

I am currently daily driving my 80 series, stock suspension, stock pretty much everything else, and currently fitted with E-rated Yokohama Geolandar M/T G003 (LT265/75-16 size), which are NOT a daily-driver tire! They are practically new--about 3,000 miles on them--and are totally impractical for my needs. 98% of the time, she is a pavement princess, and my off-pavement needs are pretty mild. I think that the Michelin Defender LTX M/S in the same size (265/75-16), although not a popular tire with the 80-series crowd, would probably be perfect for my needs. Here's what I am looking for:
  • Wet pavement and snow traction are my biggest traction needs;
  • I want a durable, damage resistant tire that's long-lasting;
  • Off-road is going to be limited to dirt, grass, and gravel (camping, stuff like that);
  • Low noise on pavement is a must;
  • Reducing rolling resistance and improving gas mileage is welcome.
I realize anything is going to be better than a 55-lb, E-rated mud terrain. Based on other reviews, I'm sure the Michelins will exceed my needs. I am also considering the Toyos because we have those on my wife's Sequoia, and they have proven to be really good. We first had a set of SL-rated AT2s that we got about 70,000 miles out of, and then replaced them with the AT3s. I liked the discontinued AT2s better (they were quieter), but the AT3 in SL-load rating have been great. So, I have experience with these. I'm mainly considering these because of cost, as they are almost $100 less per tire.

Regarding the Defender LTX, the E-rated LT tire is actually less money (by about $20 per tire) than the SL version, so...
  • I've heard the E-rated Defender LTXs are smoother-riding than many SL tires. Is there any advantage (durability, tread life, etc.) to getting the E-rated over the SL-rated, or do you think the SL-rated tire is a better choice for my intended use?
  • For anyone whose run the Defenders, any regrets? (It seems like virtually everyone whose run them has loved them.)
  • Any other tires I should consider?
  • Any idea on the value of a set of 3,000 mile Yok G003s? I'd like to sell them if possible.
Thanks, all, for the input!
 
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My experience with AT3:

2019 GX460: Discount Tire, rotated every 5K miles. Currently have 80K miles on them in 4 years. Driven in rain, snow, dry, etc. Zero “wheeling”.

Supper happy with road noise, traction, seemingly reduced instances of hydroplaning. They aren’t close to needing replaced…wondering if they will be a 100K mile tire.

I will replace with same.

Had Michelins on 1997 80 Series, BFG KOs on same vehicle and 1999 100 Series. Toyo AT2s on same 100 Series. Big fan of Toyo.
 
G-Cat said:
My experience with AT3:

2019 GX460: Discount Tire, rotated every 5K miles. Currently have 80K miles on them in 4 years. Driven in rain, snow, dry, etc. Zero “wheeling”.

Supper happy with road noise, traction, seemingly reduced instances of hydroplaning. They aren’t close to needing replaced…wondering if they will be a 100K mile tire.

I will replace with same.

Had Michelins on 1997 80 Series, BFG KOs on same vehicle and 1999 100 Series. Toyo AT2s on same 100 Series. Big fan of Toyo.
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I have had similar experiences with the Toyos. I put SL-rated AT2s on our 2003 Sequoia in 2018. Drove that vehicle on those tires to Florida and back 7 times (2018 through 2024). Tires had at least 70K on them. In 2024, we had a blowout in TN on US-45 just south of Selmer (massive tread puncture, I ran over either a big bolt or a railroad spike). Had the tire replaced in Destin, FL with an SL AT3 (since the AT2s had been discontinued). Replaced the other four in January 2025 before the snowy season in St. Louis. The AT2s probably had 75K on them at that point, with about 5/32s left.

The AT3s currently have about 18K on them and look practically new. They are a little noisier than the AT2s but still very quiet for an A/T. The relatively poor test results that they have received on TireRack do not at all match my experience with them. I probably should just stick to what I know and the get the Toyos! Always looking to try something new, though...

Similarly, I ran the SL-rated Yokohama A/T G015s on my 100-series before it got totalled a two months back. Those were also excellent, and gave me over 70K! The Yok AT/4 seems to be step backward in every regard the discontinued G015s.
 
From your described use case the Michelins are hard to beat as they meet or exceed your requirements. I ran the LTX on my first two 80 before the temptation for the oversized tires won.

I am partial to Nitto so I have no experience with Toyo and anything I say about the Toyo would be conjecture.
Pros and Cons:
Michelin - 70k rated tires, good overall ratings for all categories (except not recommended for severe snow); pricey
Toyo - 50k rated tires, good overall ratings and rated for severe snow; moderately priced.

I have not priced out the Michelins in quite a few years but do remember them being on the pricier side compared to other offerings. My question would be if you get responses in favor of the Toyo would the cost difference be a determining factor as well.

Edit: Got curious and looked the two tires up, there is almost a $100 difference per tire for the Michelins over the Toyo.
 
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For what you’re describing,
Falken Wildpeak AT4 (pick your favorite size)

Mic drop….

(References: they are now on 3 of my vehicles including 2 GX460’s and a MB GLS450. I’ve had them on other trucks too. They are what will go on my 80 next after the Toyo MT3’s have aged out—-next year. My 80 spends more time off asphalt than on. A number of buddy’s have the Wildpeaks on 80, 100 and 200 series LC’s. I’ve seen them go anywhere that my built 80 will on MT3’s. And they are much friendlier on asphalt than so many other things. My ultimate test was the AMG package Mercedes SUV with 22” wheels that I swapped for 20” square configuration on the Wildpeaks for the mountain winters. Not going to take them off for the summer. They perform that well on pavement also. You should at least check them out.)
 
Brindleboxer said:
From your described use case the Michelins are hard to beat as they meet or exceed your requirements. I ran the LTX on my first two 80 before the temptation for the oversized tires won.

I am partial to Nitto so I have no experience with Toyo and anything I say about the Toyo would be conjecture.
Pros and Cons:
Michelin - 70k rated tires, good overall ratings for all categories (except not recommended for severe snow); pricey
Toyo - 50k rated tires, good overall ratings and rated for severe snow; moderately priced.

I have not priced out the Michelins in quite a few years but do remember them being on the pricier side compared to other offerings. My question would be if you get responses in favor of the Toyo would the cost difference be a determining factor as well.

Edit: Got curious and looked the two tires up, there is almost a $100 difference per tire for the Michelins over the Toyo.
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Yup, the almost $330/tire cost of the Defender LTX is the main thing holding me back.

I usually put 12K to 14K miles per year on my daily driver (at least I have the last 5 or so years). $1,200 for a set of 5 Toyos should get me 70K, or up to about 6 years of use, at $200/year. $1,650 for a set of 5 Michelins may get me 80K to 90K, maybe? But I'd probably be looking at dry-rot issues post year 6. So maybe 7 years of use--compared to 6 for the Toyos--as a cost of $235 year.

Not a huge amortized cost, but a significant upfront cost. The question being, at what benefit? Comfort and noise, certainly (although the Toyos are pretty good in that regard). Improved gas mileage, probably (although hard to say how much).

I guess the comparable Nitto to the Toyo AT3 would be the Terra Grappler G3? Do you have experience with those?
 
SoTexCruiserDoc said:
For what you’re describing,
Falken Wildpeak AT4 (pick your favorite size)

Mic drop….

(References: they are now on 3 of my vehicles including 2 GX460’s and a MB GLS450. I’ve had them on other trucks too. They are what will go on my 80 next after the Toyo MT3’s have aged out—-next year. My 80 spends more time off asphalt than on. A number of buddy’s have the Wildpeaks on 80, 100 and 200 series LC’s. I’ve seen them go anywhere that my built 80 will on MT3’s. And they are much friendlier on asphalt than so many other things. My ultimate test was the AMG package Mercedes SUV with 22” wheels that I swapped for 20” square configuration on the Wildpeaks for the mountain winters. Not going to take them off for the summer. They perform that well on pavement also. You should at least check them out.)
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I've heard good things... I will check them out as well. How are they in terms of noise on pavement?
 
Note: Tires are defiantly a preference thing and you will get people praising a brand and then right after someone that would never run them.

I have run a couple versions (terra, terrain and dune) of the Grappler before but in truth for my use I didn't notice much of a difference between them. The AT rides well, pretty quite and the wear seems consistent. The one drawback to most of the LT tires is they are heavy. I am also running larger than stock in all cases and my gas mileage has suffered but heck we don't drive these for the mileage.

Unless a killer deal fall from the sky I will stick with the Nittos when I replace mine next year. As you mentioned in your post, I usually don't hit the mileage mark more often I replace because of age and rot.
 
On my stock 97 FZJ80 I run the Michelin Defender LTX MS (not the LT) in 265-75-16 and they're a smooth and quiet tire as long as they're balanced correctly. I keep the pressure at 36 (cold) which seems to be sweet spot for wear, MPG, and ride comfort on relatively smooth highways, any higher and it's a hard ride with the original springs. I don't drive in the snow but the tread design is a typical Michelin all-season tread (but not a snow tire) so it should be OK in light snow as long as there's some tread depth remaining. I bought five and rotate them every ~7000 miles including the spare.

The price however has gone up ~ 35% compared to pre-covid, look for special deals/sales.
 
wildpeak SL is my vote without knowing how many miles you plan to drive in the 8 year life of the tires.
 
I ahve the Wildpeak AT4W's on my Tundra and have been happy with them, but will be doing Nitto's on the 80 since it is a trail rig. Just trying to decide if I want the mud grapplers or the Trail Grapplers.
 
For the last handful of years and 36k miles I've been running 285/75/16 Michelin LTX on my '97 and I think they are great and will replace with the same tire when the time comes. This is the third set of tires that I've run for an extended period on this 80 and they are pretty much flawless for my uses even though they are a less aggressive tread than what I had before. I live in an area where for me "off-road" is often sandy or rocky secondary roads vs. deep/sticky mud like in some parts of the country. I don't seek out mud or difficult tracks for fun and am only "off road" as a means to an end. Because I rarely am in true mud or sticky clay the LTX with occasional air pressure adjustments have been totally sufficient. Having lockers in the axles adds a little extra help in edge cases of course.

I'm on stock gears so the 285s do make the rig a bit more sluggish. The pwr button and low expectations make the combo tolerable in terms of performance for me. The following part number is for a speedo gear that is an easy change and that puts your speedometer right back where it should be when running the 285s: 33403-69225
 
jpoole said:
For the last handful of years and 36k miles I've been running 285/75/16 Michelin LTX on my '97 and I think they are great and will replace with the same tire when the time comes. This is the third set of tires that I've run for an extended period on this 80 and they are pretty much flawless for my uses even though they are a less aggressive tread than what I had before. I live in an area where for me "off-road" is often sandy or rocky secondary roads vs. deep/sticky mud like in some parts of the country. I don't seek out mud or difficult tracks for fun and am only "off road" as a means to an end. Because I rarely am in true mud or sticky clay the LTX with occasional air pressure adjustments have been totally sufficient. Having lockers in the axles adds a little extra help in edge cases of course.

I'm on stock gears so the 285s do make the rig a bit more sluggish. The pwr button and low expectations make the combo tolerable in terms of performance for me. The following part number is for a speedo gear that is an easy change and that puts your speedometer right back where it should be when running the 285s: 33403-69225
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My use case seems similar to yours, so it's good to hear the LTXs are serving you well.
 
To be clear, there are two different LTX MS tire types, one is SL (Standard Load) which is what I run, and the other is the LT (light truck). Outwardly they look essentially the same but the construction internally is different, the LT variant could have a much stiffer ride in a stock 80 Series.
 
I ran the michellin LTX MS SL in stock size when I first bought my land cruiser. I now have the LT version in 285. As @Kernal said, they are a stiffer tire and the ride is a little less plush compared to the standard load, but they handle well and for the extra side wall durability they have been a great option. On my other 80 series I have cooper st maxx in 255 and they are much noisier on road and don't handle pavement as well. On dry offroad (dirt and rocks) they don't seem to do any better than the michellin ltx LT and don't throw rocks once get back onto pavement. If you don't need a thicker side wall I would go for the standard load since it will be more comfortable and a little bit lighter.
 
Brindleboxer said:
Note: Tires are defiantly a preference thing and you will get people praising a brand and then right after someone that would never run them.

I have run a couple versions (terra, terrain and dune) of the Grappler before but in truth for my use I didn't notice much of a difference between them. The AT rides well, pretty quite and the wear seems consistent. The one drawback to most of the LT tires is they are heavy. I am also running larger than stock in all cases and my gas mileage has suffered but heck we don't drive these for the mileage.

Unless a killer deal fall from the sky I will stick with the Nittos when I replace mine next year. As you mentioned in your post, I usually don't hit the mileage mark more often I replace because of age and rot.
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For sure on LT tires and weight. For this guys purposes (asphalt and stock or near stock sizes), he’d probably be happier with non-LT for weight and cost. I run non-LT on most of the trucks as they live mostly on asphalt. Also, picked these tires because they are both Triple Peak (winter/snow) and M+S rated. One of the few.
 
cahill said:
noisier on road and don't handle pavement as well
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These are factors in my preference for the LTX, particularly the pavement handling. I'd rather compromise off-road where I can try a different line, engage the lockers, take my time, etc. than on road in split second evasive maneuvers. The LTX have a more secure feel on road and slip less on wet pavement or similar than the previous, not much more aggressive Firestone Destination ATs that I was running did.
 
I have had LTXs and AT3s (current tire). Tough to beat LTXs for highway manners, truly sublime to live with. I took them to Yosemite during the winter months, and they did great. Snow and ice were not really an issue as long as I took it easy. If Michelin were to make them in 315/70/17s, I would jump on them again. Now Toyos are a little different; 3 out of 5 tires came defective. I have been dealing with a slight shimmy from the moment I mounted them, and after taking them to get Road Force'd, only 2 out of 5 were eligible for the process. As it turns out, it is not uncommon with AT3s, but I love them otherwise and am more than willing to live with the annoying shimmy. Another good tire I used is the Falken Wildpeaks, and I highly recommend it. The only issue I had with them was that they got uber loud towards the end of their lifespan.
 
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