Tire Chains 2012

[Black Rhino 13]

Hello All,

I just discovered that my BFG KM2 255/85-16 tires are great, except on slippery surfaces like snow and ice. Still love them, but gets nervous on snow covered cliff-sided backcountry USFS roads here in Montana in the winter. Reasonable, I think. So, we needed tire chains. I thought I'd throw what I learned out there.

For the record, I was only shopping for chains for our LC which has the 255's, OME 2.5", flares removed, and body is Herculined. Damage to vehicle/paint does not apply to my situation. Also, I only intend to use these off road so maximum traction/safety, and maximum quality/durability were my priorities.

I just spent a few days pouring myself into this topic, looking online, reading threads, and shopping the local stores. Thankfully, here in Montana we have a lot of major tire chain sellers due to the forestry industry. I hit a local logging place and saw the Peerless v-bars. I hit Les Schwab tire store chain and saw some Made in China gray painted v-bars w/ side cams and some Trygg's w/ double studded cross links. Might have had cams. Then went out to another local logging shop and saw their chains. Norse, equivalent to Trygg as far as I could tell, and Aquiline, equivalent to the Norse they had in stock. They have a catalog from something called Quality Chain and tried to talk me into some Texas Longhorn alloy twisted square link v-bars too. Then I found the Aquilines online from the importer. Aquiline Talons were $150 for the 6mm alloy cross links, double studs, cams, etc...

So, what I looked at ran:
$132 for the painted Chinese v-bars
$150 for Aquiline 6mm alloy double studs w/cams
$190 for the Peerless Made in MN alloy v-bar cross links
$235 for the Quality TX Longhorn twisted square link v-bars
$320 for the Norse/Trygg double studded allow twisted cross links.

These are all per pair, so x 2. These are all 4 link chains, so a cross link every 4th side chain link.

I also learned/decided that the spider bungee is a good idea, with or without cams, and is $13 or so on Amazon for a pair from Quality Chain.

What I more or less learned overall is that alloy cross links are better for strength and rust protection but side chains are almost always regular carbon steel with maybe a hardening or coating. The v-bars are probably better than just regular cross chains for traction, but it depends on the size and whether or not you're talking on or off road. The double studded twisted alloy cross links are what the most expensive and highly regarded chains have, and that is conveyed further if you look at all the insane logging chains they make out there. The double studded links seem to be the standard for off road winter traction when you absolutely need the chains to work. Look up "skidder tire chains" to see what I'm talking about.

This is a preliminary post and I will follow up with my impressions and experiences very soon. The conclusion at this point is that I ordered the Aquilines. It was just under $360 with shipping from NH to MT. I called my local logging guy back and he couldn't even get those chains for me for that low a price and he's a retailer for the same company. He said the Talons are a direct competitor for the Trygg and Norse chains but about 1/2 the price. The guys in NH seem to take the parts from Europe and hammer out the completed product there in NH and sell direct to the public pretty much.

These are just my analysis, impressions, and second hand info at this point but the chains will be here early next week. Time will tell whether I need to move up to a 2-link configuration.

Hope someone finds this useful. Feel free to comment, add to this thread, correct me, etc... I put nothing about highway chains/cables because I knew I wasn't looking for that.

Oh, the website for the Aquiline Talons is tirechainsrequired.com. Turns out it's the same exact mailing address for wallingfords and for aquiline as well as a couple of other companies. They seem to have good prices on other chains too, but I am not affiliated with them and am not specifically trying to get them more business.

 

[Tapage]

I have limited experience with chains .. for your needs .. but we use 'em ton for mud trips down here .. and tirechain.com ( no afiliation ) it's usually the place to end when we are talking about the chains we use .. coz the cams in chains .. are jsut huge advantage for our use.

 

[Black Rhino 13]

Yeah, I looked at them too. They had a few good options and some thicker chains. I kinda kept the Trygg models as the pinnacle in my mind and judged from there. They didn't offer any double stud chains which affected my opinion. Their 7mm alloy straight link looks okay, but it's more $$ than the 6mm alloy twisted double studs w/cam chains I got. There are many options out there.

 

[Snacktime]

Mine came from 4wheelparts, basic 3/8 steel chain for $100 a set (I chain front and rear). I have never had an issue were I felt that I needed v-bars, always have tons of traction on ice and can dig a hole to China at will in the loose stuff! I've looked into double bar chains a couple of times and just not felt the need to spend the money. I will be buying new chains when I move up a tire size, front and rear just basic steel chain again.

Snow picture time!

 

[snobdds]

Nice pictures

I just use the regulars too and never have had a problem. What are some advantages of v bar with stud chains? Just ice?...

 

[Black Rhino 13]

Nice pics!

Yeah, double studded twisted alloy links are the last word - that word being overkill. I won't ever know if regular chains would have worked fine, but I will know if the best aren't enough. I'm totally prepared to upgrade to 2-link. I've just gotten into the overkill habit now. That, and I want these to last for a very long time.

For example: I bought top of the line $240 (retail) snowshoes for xmas and just broke a plastic clasp on the 2nd or 3rd use. WTH?!? So, naturally a trip to Ace Hardware followed to buy some stainless bolts, rubber backed washers, lock nuts, little d-rings, and some nylon strap material. That will replace the riveted plastic guides with bolted on support for the snowshoe binding straps. Overkill for some people just seems to be normal for my family here in Montana. I'm gonna replace all of those plastic guides with the new stuff on mine and 's new snowshoes.

Overkill: That's why we love the Cruiser!

 

[Black Rhino 13]

Nice pictures

I just use the regulars too and never have had a problem. What are some advantages of v bar with stud chains? Just ice?...

Regular chains have each cross link made up of normal chain where each link is 90 degrees off of the other link and that goes across the surface of the tire however it fits with the tread grooves.

V-bars are usually on a twisted chain cross link, which lies flat across the tire - hopefully. Then a piece of metal is welded into each link on both sides of the link creating an outward/upward/ground facing V shaped double tooth of sorts.

Yes, the advantage would be on ice or hard pack mostly, but the way the chains lie flat and the teeth could be an advantage in general.

Studded are more aggressive with a twisted cross link (which lies flat) and two little thick pieces of chain/metal welded to each side of the cross link but not attached to one another. Generally, I think you get deeper bite with the studs, plus the advantage that you could lose one stud on a link and still have one present, as opposed to a V piece of metal which would likely come off as a whole.

And generally speaking, the prices increase substantially from regular chains, to v-bars, to studded. Plus, regular chains are more marketed for pavement/ mixed use whereas v-bars and studs are marketed exclusively for off-road use due to the damage they can do to concrete/pavement.

Like Snacktime said, you can get a set of regular carbon steel chains for around $100 all around your vehicle. Probably made in China, if that matters. 4 tires covered for $100 v. $640 for Trygg double studded. Trygg are made in Norway AFAIK. I think the Aquiline Talons are the same as Trygg so I got them for myself @ $360.

Studded illustration:

Vbar close up:

 

[Snacktime]

Nice pictures

I just use the regulars too and never have had a problem. What are some advantages of v bar with stud chains? Just ice?...

They make putting the chains on harder, also not sure of the benefit? Always figured they would roll over and just be like a regular chain if they do bite.

 

[landtoy80]

When I drove off road semi we use the 8mm studded alloy off-road use only, not DOT approved=Not legal for hwy use. If you want the best traction, the studded alloy is the way to go. I have a pair of V-bar ones as they are much cheaper then than the studded alloy. They have not failed me.

On the semi, its fun to watch the sparks come off the chains from a 100,000+ Lbs rig/load going up a frozen dirt/rock road as the tires spin. The truck is moving 10 mph but the speedo reads 30 mph, FUN, till you get stuck, then the D9 Cat takes over.

 

[Black Rhino 13]

Nice!

I took some of my early advice from a fellow 'Mudder, one of four here in Missoula, who works on logging equipment that needs repair deep in the Montana mountains 12 months a year. He has some interesting stories related to traction and tire chains. He said they put Trygg on their work trucks and he has some himself. Trygg means $$$ studded alloy, etc... naturally.

Just for clarification, I want to make sure nobody misinterprets me as saying you need studded alloy twisted link chains, etc... Tire chains should be bought for your application, and budget to some degree.

For us, chains are for recreational purposes, so it's not that we "need them, we just "want" them, and we want the best because we want to be able to drive 20 miles into the backcountry in Montana in January. Hell, there were places I couldn't go all last summer due to snow, and downed trees.

P.S. My understanding is that the way the twisted cross links work is that the chains don't roll over. In order for "roll over" to occur, the whole cross chain would have to roll as a whole and that means you've basically broken it or broken the side chain because the twisted link lies flat all the way down the sidewall to the massive side hooks which connect to the side chain and do not, can not roll. Twisted links are designed specifically to not be able to roll, which partly explains the price/materials and partly explains the traction advantage. Double studded links would be pretty worthless if the chain just rolled over 90 degrees when you needed traction. They have to be really strong to withstand the force of a 50 ton semi spinning its tires on rocks and throwing sparks. I just think regular carbon steel offset links might not be able to stand up to that kind of abuse.

 

[Black Rhino 13]

Okay, minor update.

Got the chains and the spider bungees last week. They look good and I soaked them up in some soy based penetrating oil. I don't know why. I just thought it might prevent rust. So, we went to Les Schwab and looked at the Tryggs again and looked at our Aquiline Talons. The only visible difference is that the Tryggs are beefier. They are 7mm cross links and presumably 7mm studs which seem a little longer than ours. Ours are 6mm cross links and presumably 6mm studs. However, the Tryggs don't have the side cams and ours do. Not sure that cams are necessary, but they're a perk. I still use the bungees too. I don't know how much strength or digging advantage you get with a 7mm vs. 6mm studded chain. 17%? I am assuming the metal quality is the same. I can't really tell any difference.

With the side cams thrown in on the Talons, I don't see how the Tryggs are worth the extra 80% in price +/- depending on your shipping price. We're happy @ just under $400 total, but I could see how any 6mm-8mm tire chains would probably be fine and with some going for less than 1/2 as much as these Talon's I'd bet we'd be pretty happy with them too. But ours aren't for sale.

Anyway, we drove up a mountain road today to test them out. It was a few miles before the snow got too deep and we chained up to go back out since it was somewhat steep and pretty icy. More dangerous going down than up. Putting them on was really simple. Drape over the tires, hook in the back, set the boom on the outside of the tire by the ground and then twist the cams. Put on spider bungees after that. We rolled forward and back to set the last cam or two or fiddle with the chains. I learned that next time we need to be a little more particular about draping the chains evenly, but nothing came loose nor did anything bad happen. Our 33.3" BFG KM2 255/85-16's seemed like they really stretched the blue spider bungees a lot. They didn't seem overly stressed, but it's not a very stretchy material. I was huffin to get the last arm hooked. Makes me wonder what the size cutoff is for the larger bungees.

Anyway, on the few miles we drove, the chains stayed put and so did we. The vehicle was a little squirrely at times in mixed surface ice/snow patches and had some pretty weird resonance from the chains on the ice/snow, but nothing bad came of it. Did 30+ mph and everything seemed fine. The KM2's are terrible on ice and we had no problem braking or turning but the vehicle does handle, um, differently with the studded chains on. Just something to get used to because those studs really bite into the ice. We had to literally "pull" the studs up out of the ice when we took the chains off. That biting into the ice means they affect handling more than I think regular links would. And I'm not aware of the studded links rolling over. I'm not sure they could.

The 6mm seems like a great size when you take how much they bite into ice and hard pack into consideration. Especially on this size tire. Maybe on 35's or bigger tires the 7mm studs would be better? I could see the value in the 7mm in general if you need serious traction, but not for the $$$. If you can't get there or get out in an FZJ80 w/ lift, tires, lockers, 6mm studded chains, etc... I think you're doing it wrong.

That's the update. Sorry I didn't have the camera with me today. We'll get some shots up before too long.

I can see how people would be very happy with the performance of the least expensive chains. I can see how that's a huge improvement over no chains. I realize in many ways this is splitting hairs comparing the Aquiline Talons to the Tryggs.

Again, hope someone finds some of this helpful!

 

[Itchy Sides]

Rhino: Great research and great write-up! Thank you!

 

[Black Rhino 13]

Rhino: Great research and great write-up! Thank you!

My pleasure. Thanks!

 

[Black Rhino 13]

Here are a few pics from when the chains arrived. I just went and checked on them hanging up on a bike rack in my storage unit. A little surface rust has formed after the first use. This surprised me since I put that soy bolt-off oil on them after I got them. In the pics you can tell some minor rust had already started before I got them. Not sure how big a deal this is. They came from New England where it is more wet and humid. It is less so here. I was on pure snow without any salt or chemicals. Thinking I might need to blow the water off after each use? My plan is to get some of this biodegradable oil for chainsaws and keep that on them in storage. Maintenance is a big part of my plan.

Action shots should be up within a couple of weeks hopefully.

 

[landroamer]

Black Rhino,
Nice looking chains, you wont regret them, I have some triggs for the cruiser, not using them right now as they are to large for the current tires I have on, I also have a set of square links, work good a lot of the time but on steep icy surfaces they do slide more that the studded or v bars, As you stated earlier, I have a lot of chain up experience with my service truck, 24,000 lb four wheel drive, chained up with tri rails in the rear, and singles in the front, mud chains, huge links but no ice traction, slid off a mountain chained up in first gear low range this year, almost lost the truck, have never had this problem yet with the triggs. As usuall great post with excellent research.

 

[landtoy80]

I would not worry about rust, I have a of used ones that I found along with my V bars that has surface rust along with the ones that hang on the semi that show any more than surface rust but that was in Colorado where rust rusts slower than in the wet climates.

Get a 5 gal bucket and find some liquid wax or WD40 like oil and dip them after use if you are worried about rust.

 

[Cannon88]

You guys need this 'mod'.

Chains under school buses... [VIDEO]

 

[Black Rhino 13]

Interesting idea.

Here's another pic.