Timing chain replacement?

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Joined
Dec 28, 2007
Threads
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Location
Norfolk, VA
How can I tell when my timing chain needs replaced. My LC is a 95 with 119K. I purchased at 114K and do not have any service data performed on the LC. It runs just fine, but not sure if it needs to be changed or how I can tell if its ever been changed. Thanks
 
It is never needs changing as part of routine maintenance, not like a timing belt. Just run good oil (something like Mobil 1 High Mileage).
 
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It never needs changing...

I think some here have been mis-informed that the timing belt never needs replacement. It's definitely more durable than a timing belt, but if ever out of spec it should be replaced.

Per FSM (EM-17) the measured length of 16 links fully stretched should be less than 146.6 mm.
 
mkfour and cruiserman;
Of course you would check it and replace it if it was found to be out of spec ie: during a headgasket job, but I think the OP was asking if/when the timing chain should be changed as part of recommended preventive maintenance such as the case with the 100 series (and most other vehicles) which use timing belts.
 
I think some here have been mis-informed that the timing belt never needs replacement. It's definitely more durable than a timing belt, but if ever out of spec it should be replaced.

Per FSM (EM-17) the measured length of 16 links fully stretched should be less than 146.6 mm.

Sure it needs replacement if out of spec, just like you might need new piston rings when they go out of spec, ie. when you rebuild the engine at 300k miles. It is not a maintenance item. I only remember having heard of one (80 series) timing chain that needed replacing, since I've been on 'mud.
 
How can I tell when my timing chain needs replaced. My LC is a 95 with 119K. I purchased at 114K and do not have any service data performed on the LC. It runs just fine, but not sure if it needs to be changed or how I can tell if its ever been changed. Thanks

My 94 has 270,000 miles on the original timing chain. It's supposed to last until the engine needs a rebuild. Mine runs fine too. You can do a search on the timing chain slipper (check Slee's site also). If I were you, I wouldn't worry for a long, long time about the timing chain.
 
Never needs replacing is not the same as replace if out of spec. I think that needed to be clarified.

I also wonder how many are actually measuring their timing chains when they have the opportunity. When I do my HG this coming summer, I will measure mine. And if it's within spec, more peace of mind.
 
mkfour; I've have yet to replace a timing chain in an landcruiser engine that had been taken care of. Accelerated wear does occur of course in rare situations. The fact that it is a chain and not a belt is a big plus for the 80's, and the point behind the OP's question. ie; does it require routine maintenance. Guess we could ask Cruiserdan to share with us how many chains he sells. That would give us some data to go by for those who are interested. It's all good.
 
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Never needs replacing is not the same as replace if out of spec. I think that needed to be clarified.
True, in a literal sense. But, if someone asks when they need to replace the frame, I will generally say that it never needs replacing, but the fact of the matter is, if it is bent in an accident, then it will need to be repaired/replaced. So, I really have no problem telling people the timing chain does not usually need to be replaced until you rebuild the engine.


I also wonder how many are actually measuring their timing chains when they have the opportunity. When I do my HG this coming summer, I will measure mine. And if it's within spec, more peace of mind.

Probably not many people have taken the time to measure them, as they have never been an issue, from what I have seen, on this board of overmaintaining enthusiasts.

Interested in your measurements.
 
Hey guys-

I have a 1995 Landcriuser with 129,000 miles on it, it sat for 2 weeks when I was on a business trip out of town without being run or on the road. When I got back and started it I heard a liitle chatter in the engine while it was runnung. However, since then it's been fine and have heard nothing. I've been told by mechanics if I start to hear that chattering again it probably is the timing chain and should replace it before it breaks and maybe cuts through the crankcase. The total cost would be around 2,000 at one shop and the other price was up to 2,700 at the other shop. I use it to tow my 19' champion bass boat and sometimes on trips to the mountains, it has been garaged and well maintained since I have owned it and have preformed all maintanence thru out the years. One Toyota shop said the only way to tell is to check it, the timing chain to see if it needs to be replaced for 100 dollars, however, I am not sure if I trust this dealership, whats to stop them from saying it needs replaced even if it doesn't? Any suggestions?
Not trusting in Phoenix, AZ
Thanks
 
When I got back and started it I heard a liitle chatter in the engine while it was runnung.

More than likely, this is the "startup rattle" that is not uncommon. The noise can be reduced by using the small 'good' Toyota oil filters like the 90915-20007 filter that you can get from Cruiserdan.

I would not pay someone to check it and I certainly wouldn't pay someone to replace it based on a single chatter event.

-B-
 
The timing chain issues are extremely common in the 22R series engines. In fact, they almost never last longer than about 150K miles and can do everything from wear holes in the water jacket or snap and ruin the engine. The 22R chains generally stretched over time and this is where the problems began and if you're luck where the first warnings of impending failure come up as the "start up rattle". The earlier 20R duel timing chain never had this problem and usually lasted the life of the time thanks to the heavier duty duel chain and metal backed guides.

The reason I mention all this is because as I understand it, the 1FZ chain is also single chain, but also has metal backed guides.

With the problems Toyota had with the 22R chain system going all the way back to the early 1980s and the 1FZ being designed as an all new motor in the early 1990s, I have to assume they learned their lessons by switching from plastic back to metal guides, probably used a better tensioning system and although the chain is single, it's probably extra hefty in size to handle the duty. I also wonder if the sissor duel cam gearing and perhaps smaller upper gear helps reduce the stress on the chain. I wonder if the oiling system up top is a little better also on the 1FZ.
 
I agree on the 22R motors, but the 1FZ setup is a newer generation design. It's much more robust, has a long slipper guide, that rotates on a pin with a hydraulic tensioner that moves the whole guide, making for much better chain control, less flopping, wear than the earlier designs. It also has an oil jet that sprays on the chain, improving lubrication and life. They have proven to be very reliable.
timing_chain.webp
 
22R and 1FZ set-up?

Hey guys-

Thanks for all the info concerning the timing belt issues, however, what years are you talking about with the 22R and 1FZ engines? Sorry, I don't know that much about the history of the LC, mine is a 1995 with 129,000 miles. Appreciate any insite and information you may have.

Thanks,
Mazz
 
The 22R is not a Land Cruiser Engine.
The 1FZ-FE was available in US 80-Series from 1993 through 1997. Other markets got the engine earlier and later than those years but that was when the US got it.
-B-
 
I agree on the 22R motors, but the 1FZ setup is a newer generation design. It's much more robust, has a long slipper guide, that rotates on a pin with a hydraulic tensioner that moves the whole guide, making for much better chain control, less flopping, wear than the earlier designs. It also has an oil jet that sprays on the chain, improving lubrication and life. They have proven to be very reliable.


Wow! So the tensioner on the 1FZ moves the whole chain guide? That's what the picture looks like. The 22R tensioner is seperate from the two chain guides. Interesting system. The oil jet is nice touch too.

Toyota did a heck of a job with the 1FZ...headgasket not withstanding.
 
In all the engines I have pulled down over the years, the chains have never been out of spec's. I have only replaced one chain for a customer that had a broken tensioner plastic. We thought it best to replace it all when we where in the engine. Even that chain and gears were with in spec with 120k on the clock.
As for the 22r the tensioner design created a lot of the problems, not allowing enough pressure on the chain to prevent slack that would then create a chain slap(upon start up, especially really cold days) that would break the guide that was made of plastic. If the plastic was replaced with a metal back guide(ala DOA), that problem went away.
Anyhow not a Land cruiser engine.
later Robbie
 
I was glad to read this discussion as I was wondering the same thing. So many vehicle need timing belts/chains as PM around the mileage that most of us have. I'll put this issue out of my mind...
 
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