Timing Chain: OEM, Upgrade or Double-upgrade? Other mpg tips?

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Kief

Kief

Joined
Apr 24, 2003
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Location
Southwest Oregon
I've got an 89 22re with 96k, and I'm hoping to replace the timing chain. It seems as though the metal guides are a must, the stock OEM stuff is about $400, DOA's kit is $275 and LC Engineering has the single OEM replacement for $149 and the double-upgrade chain with a new cover for $400, and then I found Japan Engine has the hole deal for less than $30 bucks... SCARY.. I haven't had any problems except for a little rattle on start up and a rough idle when warm which may be related to some noisy fuel injectors or?

Your input is greatly especially if you have any MPG improvement tips!!
 
Or, I found one local supplier with the metal upgrade kit (complete) for about $90 and another for $50 (ITM brand/Taiwan) Crazy....
 
I just bought the LC engineering kit with metal backed guides.
Its an all OSK kit. ALL JAPAN PARTS. which is pretty nice. If im not mistaken, everything in it IS toyota parts, just without their labels on them. I am always a proponent for OEM where possible.
 
Buddy of mine races a dirt track car with a 22R in it. He wings that motor to 6800 RPM regularly with trips to 7200 RPM with some frequency. Stock chain, plastic guides, no problem. I thought he was nuts but I saw it with my own eyes, so I put a stock chain and guides in my 88 recently. It was the second high mile motor I've had eat the plastic guides. But as long as you catch it (you'll know, the motor sounds like it's having Wheaties for breakfast or you'll see the chain doing the wild thang down where the guides used to be) and replace chain and guides quickly, it isn't a big deal. If you let it go, the chain will eat its way through the timing chain cover which allows coolant into the oil. Then it is a big deal ... I'd go Japanese/OEM quality (aftermarket, not Toyota stealership prices), but I can't see spending $$$$ on racey-race quality stuff.
 
I put an engnbldr kit on my son's truck back in January. I'll never buy that kit again. Gaskets didn't fit (they went into the trash), and the worst was when we put the metal guide on, the cover wouldn't fit tight. This is the second time this has happened. IMO I shouldn't have to grind a bunch of material off the guide or the back of the cover to get it to fit tight against the block.

I have a set of DOA metal guides. I didn't have to do any of that grinding BS, they fit fine. When I pulled them off my engine after 50K miles, they still looked new. I'll never have to buy a set of guides again, and that piece of mind is worth the price of admission.
 
I did an engbldr kit a month ago, and everything fit fine. Everything was made in Japan, as well a new oil pump and water pump. The gears, chain, the passenger's side, and both pumps even looked spot on like the OEM Toyota stuff in my engine.

I did trim 1/16" off the bottom of the driver's side gasket, but otherwise I am more than satisfied with the kit, the instructions and how it went together.

I will say though, the engbldr kit only has a metal backed driver's side guide- the passenger's side is plastic.
 
ridgerunner said:
I did an engbldr kit a month ago, and everything fit fine. Everything was made in Japan, as well a new oil pump and water pump. The gears, chain, the passenger's side, and both pumps even looked spot on like the OEM Toyota stuff in my engine.

I did trim 1/16" off the bottom of the driver's side gasket, but otherwise I am more than satisfied with the kit, the instructions and how it went together.

I will say though, the engbldr kit only has a metal backed driver's side guide- the passenger's side is plastic.
Click to expand...

I think I noticed that on Ebay and on some online parts sources..

I just replaced a timing chain and gears on my 1fz-fe with a engnbldr kit and it looks pretty good. It isn't the exact same design as OEM tho'- the rails on the OEM are extended on the aluminum backing vs. just having the plastic with some guides molded a little deeper than the original.. IT would be interesting to order the LC engineering parts and set it up next to the engnbldr stuff for the 22re.. When I see prices range so drastically it makes me wonder what the best value is.
 
Kief said:
IT would be interesting to order the LC engineering parts and set it up next to the engnbldr stuff for the 22re.. When I see prices range so drastically it makes me wonder what the best value is.
Click to expand...

I'll let you know how the engnbldr kit works out in 99,678 miles.

For piece of mind, the LCe does come with both metal guides. If you've had issues with this before, then this seems like cheap insurance.

The first time the timing chain on my truck was replaced, it was by the PO at a dealership at 140K - the driver's side guide was gone and the chain was eating into the cover. I just replaced it at 201K. The chain was usable, as were the guides.

A friend who swapped in a junkyard 22RE into his 83 had the timing chain break- not the guides- with only 50K on the chain. "No more downshifting."
 
Just to throw the other side in on this debate...

I installed an EB metal backed guide set a few years ago, but managed to put the wrong bolt in the wrong spot on the timing cover, which jammed the chain tensioner open. The chain was running wild in there, and fatigued the upper part of the drivers side chain guide and broke it off. The guide went down between the crank and the chain, and snapped the chain.... That resulted in a few bent valves and forced a headgasket job etc. But I was extremely lucky in that the chain did not get dumped down into the bottom of the timing cover to make a real mess... It was hanging perfectly with it's broken ends down slapping the crank sprocket...

I kind of wish I had just gone with some plastic guides after all that...

Metal Vs. Plastic....

If you plan on putting it in and never looking at it again for 200k miles, and don't ever listen to your engine to see if it's making bad noises.... you should probably go with a metal guide...

If you do periodic maintenance on your vehicle and will pop the valve cover off ever few years to take a look at the guides, then plastic is probably fine. As far as I know, Toyota has not started selling metal backed guides.... So they must not think it's an issue....

:cheers:
 
KLF said:
I put an engnbldr kit on my son's truck back in January. I'll never buy that kit again. Gaskets didn't fit (they went into the trash), and the worst was when we put the metal guide on, the cover wouldn't fit tight. This is the second time this has happened. IMO I shouldn't have to grind a bunch of material off the guide or the back of the cover to get it to fit tight against the block.

I have a set of DOA metal guides. I didn't have to do any of that grinding BS, they fit fine. When I pulled them off my engine after 50K miles, they still looked new. I'll never have to buy a set of guides again, and that piece of mind is worth the price of admission.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info on Engnbldr stuff. I used an LCE kit ("Made In Japan") that came with a parts rig I bought ages ago, so it was cost effective and it seems to work well enough for most folks. No question metal guides are best though.
 
bryan89 said:
I just bought the LC engineering kit with metal backed guides.
Its an all OSK kit. ALL JAPAN PARTS. which is pretty nice. If im not mistaken, everything in it IS toyota parts, just without their labels on them. I am always a proponent for OEM where possible.
Click to expand...

the one i ordered was, except the metal guides, i think they make them there self, but not sure, and i would and will order from them again!
 
I've used two kits on two different 22r/re's from DOA without issue (both guides are metal backed btw).

As for the plastic vs metal debate; it's a no brainer to me, go metal. Who want's to tear into it again to replace a broken guide? :rolleyes:
 
I am thinking of buying an 84 PU with an 22RE engine. MY question is do you need to pull the head to change the Timing chain. As in the 82 22r engine I had in a previous truck. At what milage would you need to replace it. My old trucks timing chain died at 80K.
 
Toyota made the timing chain change interval 90K miles. That is a conservative number, but it gives you an idea on when it should be changed.

A person can change the timing chain without removing the head, however the oil pan should be removed in this case. The problem is the timing chain cover is sandwiched between the head and the oil pan. To get a good seal, one or the other needs to come off in order to not have to push the cover straight on messing up the RTV. I've done it without removing the head and just lowering the oil pan down to get the front cover on. I learned that is not the best method if you like not having oil leaks everywhere. The proper method by way of Toyota is to remove both the head and the oil pan. Then the entire engine is sealed again.

Honestly the 22re is about the easiest engine to work on. It's almost easier to just pull the engine and work on it outside the truck on a stand. Two hours and it can be pulled. I then do the timing chain, head gasket and all other needed seals and RR then. I find it faster and easier with a much better outcome than fighting it in the truck. Spending two days down will have you a great running little ride.
 
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