Ohh Boy : (
Time to wheel! Anyone?
- Thread starter gregoryfj40
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Ohh Boy : (
You wheel illegally as some do and that is the reason access is closed. 
This is not a lecture but please don't wheel where you are not supposed to. It will only distroy what others have worked hard to protect. I know I would be pissed if someone were to wheel in my backyard uninvited (not that you could do much on a 5000sq ft lot)
so common sense tell me not to do it to others.
This is not a lecture but please don't wheel where you are not supposed to. It will only distroy what others have worked hard to protect. I know I would be pissed if someone were to wheel in my backyard uninvited (not that you could do much on a 5000sq ft lot) so common sense tell me not to do it to others.
You wheel illegally as some do and that is the reason access is closed.
I just don't agree. Now I didnt say that I would go on private land. I respect that someone pays taxes on thier land and I would not want someone on my land (well not just anybody).
Do you believe there is some probationary period that must pass with noone getting caught on unsanctioned property and suddenly some legal veil will be lifted and we will have designated land to go on? I dont. Maybe in other states where you have a choice between legal and illegal the decision is easier but here there is no legal.
"its all good...in ma there was quite a bit of places to wheel...and some in CT and NH....it is illegal...(drive at your own risk)...but...if its not being trashed and not being abused...then they look the other way...then its "pretty much legal" "
-Johnny C
This seems to align with my point
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There are valid points from both sides but I agree with others that when it comes down to it illegal is illegal. Yup, most of us as kids in highschool went alot of places we shouldn't have, and sometimes we got caught and sometimes we didn't. Back then John Q Law would run you off and that was it. Nobody thought much else. Unfortunately it is a different world now (Somehow it must be Osama Bin Laden's fault).
I definately sympathize with the tendency for CT guys to go it rebel-style. CT is about as unfriendly to the off road community as it gets. People have been going to alot of the same places for years, but it doesn't make it right.
Hey mtrdrms, you a fan of Carbones Market? Man, they used to make a killer grinder.
I definately sympathize with the tendency for CT guys to go it rebel-style. CT is about as unfriendly to the off road community as it gets. People have been going to alot of the same places for years, but it doesn't make it right.
Hey mtrdrms, you a fan of Carbones Market? Man, they used to make a killer grinder.
I am not often outspoken about land issues and access..........................mainly because I am not actively working to solve the problem. But .........I just got off the phone with my friend where I was volunteering as a trail leader to do maintenance on a multiuse trail on public land that has been decimated by trespassing ATV's..........................
There are a few folks in CT that are working to get motorized access on public lands. It is just this type of "wheeling as a right", especially on state lands, that kicks all their efforts right in the nuts. I'm not lecturing anyone but I've got to point out the obvious here:
The consequences here are not getting caught trespassing and being polite to the officer as you get a ticket for simple trespass on public land (oxymoron no?). It is furthering the majority misconception that we are a bunch of yahoos with no regard for public or private lands. If you're worried about getting caught, don't. DEP has less than a dozen enforcement officers for the entire state. They do not have the time, resources or willpower to do enforcement on public land. They will not do enforcement for trespass on private land. They are not allowed to pursue a chase. Have at it.
There are legal places to wheel state and town lands in CT. They are official state or town roads that are unmaintained where it is legal to operate a registered motor vehicle. If you want to ensure that they become closed..............see above misconception bit.
There are funds available for establishing motorized trail access in CT. The bureaucratic and public opinion hurdles are huge. Whine about it, shut up, or get involved. There are a handful of people and clubs working on this hard. Motorized access will not be handed to you, it will have to be fought for. Again, there are state funds available for this, get involved, make it happen. Frankly, I have other higher priorities, so I do not.
Not offended. But, come on, well intentioned? There is a motorcycle club that maintains a non-motorized trail in the Cockaponsett so they can use it for an enduro one week out of the year. Every year they go in, fix a year's worth of damage by illegal users, have their race, restore the trail, only to have it damaged by illegal use once they've left.They're willing to do it to maintain their access though, that's well intentioned. No offense.
And yes, we've all done it. Won't defend it though, it was wrong.
There are a few folks in CT that are working to get motorized access on public lands. It is just this type of "wheeling as a right", especially on state lands, that kicks all their efforts right in the nuts. I'm not lecturing anyone but I've got to point out the obvious here:
The consequences here are not getting caught trespassing and being polite to the officer as you get a ticket for simple trespass on public land (oxymoron no?). It is furthering the majority misconception that we are a bunch of yahoos with no regard for public or private lands. If you're worried about getting caught, don't. DEP has less than a dozen enforcement officers for the entire state. They do not have the time, resources or willpower to do enforcement on public land. They will not do enforcement for trespass on private land. They are not allowed to pursue a chase. Have at it.
There are legal places to wheel state and town lands in CT. They are official state or town roads that are unmaintained where it is legal to operate a registered motor vehicle. If you want to ensure that they become closed..............see above misconception bit.
There are funds available for establishing motorized trail access in CT. The bureaucratic and public opinion hurdles are huge. Whine about it, shut up, or get involved. There are a handful of people and clubs working on this hard. Motorized access will not be handed to you, it will have to be fought for. Again, there are state funds available for this, get involved, make it happen. Frankly, I have other higher priorities, so I do not.
Not offended. But, come on, well intentioned? There is a motorcycle club that maintains a non-motorized trail in the Cockaponsett so they can use it for an enduro one week out of the year. Every year they go in, fix a year's worth of damage by illegal users, have their race, restore the trail, only to have it damaged by illegal use once they've left.They're willing to do it to maintain their access though, that's well intentioned. No offense.
And yes, we've all done it. Won't defend it though, it was wrong.
Excellent points. Now we are getting somewhere. Ahhh, the ATV's. I was wondering if I was gonna get lumped into that category. I hate to go on the defensive but I hope you dont think I'm the guy who unloads his atv on a dirt road and rides wheelies back and forth and harasses the locals with no helmet on. I know about the issues irresponsible users create. I am associated with the Meriden Motorcycle club, I organize and rally trail maintenance efforts in the Cockaponsett, Nepaug and especially the Meshomasic forests. I ride with the DOT spokesperson and I know most of the DEP officers by name (on a friendly basis I might add). I ride with the Pathfinders at Thomaston. I ride with the Salmon River riders and attend their meetings. I'm engulfed in the enduro and harescramble scene but enough about me.
I just dont want to grow old waiting for legislation on land use in CT. I really do admire the clubs and individuals who fight hard for the rights of the off-roader. But land is getting scarce and the hopes of us getting a park or something besides "official state or town roads" are not many. I sometimes whine, I won't shut up and involvement is futile. But I'm taking a different route (literally). I'm gonna go use my 4runner like it should be used and so far the only people I have upset are the ones that are supposedly fighting for the use of this land. So yes I am well-intentioned, yes I will defend my position and no, I don't believe I'm wrong.
I just dont want to grow old waiting for legislation on land use in CT. I really do admire the clubs and individuals who fight hard for the rights of the off-roader. But land is getting scarce and the hopes of us getting a park or something besides "official state or town roads" are not many. I sometimes whine, I won't shut up and involvement is futile. But I'm taking a different route (literally). I'm gonna go use my 4runner like it should be used and so far the only people I have upset are the ones that are supposedly fighting for the use of this land. So yes I am well-intentioned, yes I will defend my position and no, I don't believe I'm wrong.
Hydrogeo - Carbones still makes a mean grinder! And how about that Roma's Pizza! Well I know what Im doing for dinner.
-Andy
-Andy
Well I subpose I will have to chime in. I have bit my tongue long enough around here, but here is my two cents.
I have been an avid hiker/mountain biker for a good number of years in central CT. I frequent the places you have mentioned and am probably more familiar with the ins/outs and all manner of trails in those areas than almost anyone around. Having spent many many full days riding and hiking these areas consistently spanning the past 20years. I have seen the trails evolve as they do.
My "stand" if you want to call it that, has been one that essentially the areas that are state forest should be used and enjoyed by all groups as long as the people doing the useing can do so with minimal impact and leave it in a state that is not damaged in ways such as mud bogs and bad ruts/bermed up etc.
That being said, it is a struggle for all to find a happy ground where said places can be enjoyed and not all perspectives jive as far as what is "impact", or damage.
The way I see it, there are only a few weeks/mos. out of a given year when the conditions are such that a 4x4 can go out and enjoy without leaving big ruts here and there. The hills and dales, valleys and such in central CT lend themselves for pocket after pocket of wetlands that really only dry up from time to time, and responsible users need to guage their impact based on these dry periods and the weight and footprint of the mode of transportation. With 4x4 use, one is starting out with a vehicle that weighs over 2k and pretty much cant traverse very much ground without leaving ruts. It is a fact, same with a horse...Bikes and boots make a small impact in terms of a "footprint".
I now spend most of my time at my land in NH. I would love to be able to invite some other wheelers up to play, but the delimma is that I really dont want ruts on my trail. I dont want mud bogs or nasty spots that attract & breed mosquitos. Unfortunately, that is what happens when you put a heavy vehicle on an incline and add some wet.
Just an FYI, wheeling in the places you mention is illegal for the most part. It is legal on the forest roads that travers in and through the state forests but not on the off road tracks that lead here and there.
It is unfortunate that more people dont get out and enjoy the outdoors, for me it is an opportunity to be closer to nature/god and at peace with the world that is so chaotic as it is now adays. But getting out and being a rebel wheeler, or quad damage or other, only makes the steady decline of usable trails more unavoidable.
I have been an avid hiker/mountain biker for a good number of years in central CT. I frequent the places you have mentioned and am probably more familiar with the ins/outs and all manner of trails in those areas than almost anyone around. Having spent many many full days riding and hiking these areas consistently spanning the past 20years. I have seen the trails evolve as they do.
My "stand" if you want to call it that, has been one that essentially the areas that are state forest should be used and enjoyed by all groups as long as the people doing the useing can do so with minimal impact and leave it in a state that is not damaged in ways such as mud bogs and bad ruts/bermed up etc.
That being said, it is a struggle for all to find a happy ground where said places can be enjoyed and not all perspectives jive as far as what is "impact", or damage.
The way I see it, there are only a few weeks/mos. out of a given year when the conditions are such that a 4x4 can go out and enjoy without leaving big ruts here and there. The hills and dales, valleys and such in central CT lend themselves for pocket after pocket of wetlands that really only dry up from time to time, and responsible users need to guage their impact based on these dry periods and the weight and footprint of the mode of transportation. With 4x4 use, one is starting out with a vehicle that weighs over 2k and pretty much cant traverse very much ground without leaving ruts. It is a fact, same with a horse...Bikes and boots make a small impact in terms of a "footprint".
I now spend most of my time at my land in NH. I would love to be able to invite some other wheelers up to play, but the delimma is that I really dont want ruts on my trail. I dont want mud bogs or nasty spots that attract & breed mosquitos. Unfortunately, that is what happens when you put a heavy vehicle on an incline and add some wet.
Just an FYI, wheeling in the places you mention is illegal for the most part. It is legal on the forest roads that travers in and through the state forests but not on the off road tracks that lead here and there.
It is unfortunate that more people dont get out and enjoy the outdoors, for me it is an opportunity to be closer to nature/god and at peace with the world that is so chaotic as it is now adays. But getting out and being a rebel wheeler, or quad damage or other, only makes the steady decline of usable trails more unavoidable.
Andy, You are obviously an intelligent person with an ability to articulate well and have a passion for what you do. You're already involved in Land use whether you like it or not by all those things you rattled off about the motorcycle clubs you work with. I'd like to appeal to you to think about doing the same with four wheels instead of two. There are far too few people in the Land Use arena for us that have demonstrated the skills you have here.
Do we like the fact that the States hold us back and don;t give us places to ride? Of course not, we hate it as much as you do. But in order to get anywhere with the Political Machine, you sometimes have to play by their rules. The biggest trick is to learn thier game as well as they do, and then use it against them.
I urge you to looking into some of the various people working within the system to gain YOU and the rest of us legal places to wheel.
CT Open Access Land Trust
CT Trail Users
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how many like minded people that you'll find in those two organizations. I implore you to work WITH us, not AGAINST us!
Do we like the fact that the States hold us back and don;t give us places to ride? Of course not, we hate it as much as you do. But in order to get anywhere with the Political Machine, you sometimes have to play by their rules. The biggest trick is to learn thier game as well as they do, and then use it against them.
I urge you to looking into some of the various people working within the system to gain YOU and the rest of us legal places to wheel.
CT Open Access Land Trust
CT Trail Users
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how many like minded people that you'll find in those two organizations. I implore you to work WITH us, not AGAINST us!
BTW also good posts Jim & Sam.
Sporin
Site Addict
I want to thank all the members who have stepped up and laid out the "wheel legally" mantra.
As far as Yankee Toys is concerned, we do not support ANY wheeling that is not expressly LEGAL. That means "with permission only."
Carry on.
As far as Yankee Toys is concerned, we do not support ANY wheeling that is not expressly LEGAL. That means "with permission only."
Carry on.
I have a solution to your problems. Just join e4wheelers and you can wheel with a nice 4x4 club on some really nice trails .. I am a member or was until a few months ago . I will join again just for the wheeling they do. Here is the catch, you have to wheel with all kinds of rigs. Some cruiser owners are above wheeling with anyone that does not wheel a cruiser. If you can get over that bull**** you will be golden. Just get a few of your cruiser pals to join with you . You will not regret it . They have trails for everyone.
Ha, what was this a test? That's a whole diffferent character than the guy in the previous post. 
You know the scoop, just stirring the pot eh? I'll say this, I'm not usually preaching, because Im not fighting the fight. Also, I didn't intend to lump you in with ATV riders. Unfortunately, illegal use does that, doesn't matter if it's on two, three or four wheels. Me, the 44 year old guy in the 47 year old truck is viewed by the public the same as the 16 year old kid in Mom's used Wagoneer who just blasted through a mudhole in the camping area of the state forest.
Since this is a discussion now, Spud brings up some outstanding points. Just because a trail is existing, does not make it a good trail. When I say good.....I don't mean a challenge for us..........I mean a trail that's appropriate for the environment. There are very few trails that are planned and sustainable anywhere in the Northeast.
Spud does bring up excellent points. Everthing from earth consideration to 4 wheeling spirituality - we could probably learn alot from him...
But as far as wheeling illegally goes, is it that inconcievable that someone with the knowledge, respect and experience can sucessfully enjoy themselves while overcoming bias in the eyes of others and represent the sport in a way that would make even Sporin proud? If you can imagine such a scenario then you know where I am coming from. If Mother Nature gave out stickers, they would be all over my truck.
I look at you guys and think - man these guys are super responsible, they know their stuff and they are motivated to defend their position - and I can respect that but if I can also get them to look a bit more openly at guys like me then we're in business. I digress. Almost time for my medicine.
But no CruiserNerd, no test. But would the flavor be as potent if the pot wasn't stirred?
But as far as wheeling illegally goes, is it that inconcievable that someone with the knowledge, respect and experience can sucessfully enjoy themselves while overcoming bias in the eyes of others and represent the sport in a way that would make even Sporin proud? If you can imagine such a scenario then you know where I am coming from. If Mother Nature gave out stickers, they would be all over my truck.
I look at you guys and think - man these guys are super responsible, they know their stuff and they are motivated to defend their position - and I can respect that but if I can also get them to look a bit more openly at guys like me then we're in business. I digress. Almost time for my medicine.
But no CruiserNerd, no test. But would the flavor be as potent if the pot wasn't stirred?
Stop in when you're in the neighborhood, we'll talk. 
When is it "OK" to wheel?
Let's assume there is a trail. And on the trail, or trail system it is "legal" to wheel. When is it "OK" to go wheeling? What factors need to be assesed when one decides to go and use a trail?
Weather:
What type of weather conditions have the trails seen in the last 10-15 days, perhaps more. Has there been precipitation, and if so how much? Has there been sustained periods of high pressure in the atmosphere? Has there been wind? Have there been sustained below freezing temps? Has there been long hours of sunshine?
Trail structure:
Are the particular trails rocky or loamy? Are there hills and off camber sections? Do the trails drain well? Does the route I plan to traverse have any low lying boggy sections. Even if it is only one or two, I cant very well pick up the truck and skip over those parts once I am there. So will I create more damage?
Responsability:
Will I make a mess of the trail? Will I upset the other trail users? Will I produce a situation that will create or add to damage that is current? Will that damage last for months or years to come? Will others see my tracks and follow only to create greater erosion?
If there are tracks there, I could just follow them and see where they go. I mean someone already went there so it must be "ok", right?
...(five years later)...
Wow, look at that mud bog that those jerks have created. I remember when this place was so "virgin". We were the first ones that used to come out here man...It was so nice. Now it is all tore up and oh by the way I heard you could get ticketed for going in there now dude. I guess the land owner is a prick cause' he wont let us use the trails anymore. Well, I dont know why I mean we always pick up trash and stuff, not like those few that made a bad name for us...I mean um, geeze did you see that those quads ripped it all up and well that was not us.
It is a tough spot for the wheeling community. A responsable trail user of any kind needs to concider so many facets and factors of what will ultimately contribute to erosion, or trail damage. This is compounded by the mass of the vehicle. That is why it is ever more important as you increase the load on a trail, you need to also fine tune your judgement as to when damage will occur and how you will then be a representative to your class.
Let's assume there is a trail. And on the trail, or trail system it is "legal" to wheel. When is it "OK" to go wheeling? What factors need to be assesed when one decides to go and use a trail?
Weather:
What type of weather conditions have the trails seen in the last 10-15 days, perhaps more. Has there been precipitation, and if so how much? Has there been sustained periods of high pressure in the atmosphere? Has there been wind? Have there been sustained below freezing temps? Has there been long hours of sunshine?
Trail structure:
Are the particular trails rocky or loamy? Are there hills and off camber sections? Do the trails drain well? Does the route I plan to traverse have any low lying boggy sections. Even if it is only one or two, I cant very well pick up the truck and skip over those parts once I am there. So will I create more damage?
Responsability:
Will I make a mess of the trail? Will I upset the other trail users? Will I produce a situation that will create or add to damage that is current? Will that damage last for months or years to come? Will others see my tracks and follow only to create greater erosion?
If there are tracks there, I could just follow them and see where they go. I mean someone already went there so it must be "ok", right?
...(five years later)...
Wow, look at that mud bog that those jerks have created. I remember when this place was so "virgin". We were the first ones that used to come out here man...It was so nice. Now it is all tore up and oh by the way I heard you could get ticketed for going in there now dude. I guess the land owner is a prick cause' he wont let us use the trails anymore. Well, I dont know why I mean we always pick up trash and stuff, not like those few that made a bad name for us...I mean um, geeze did you see that those quads ripped it all up and well that was not us.
It is a tough spot for the wheeling community. A responsable trail user of any kind needs to concider so many facets and factors of what will ultimately contribute to erosion, or trail damage. This is compounded by the mass of the vehicle. That is why it is ever more important as you increase the load on a trail, you need to also fine tune your judgement as to when damage will occur and how you will then be a representative to your class.
Yeah I think we can all agree that private property without permission is off-limits. I never liked the idea of tresspassing, you know, with the second amendment and all.
Does all that really go through your head when you are driving off-road? Commendable my friend, commendable.
And that is also one helluva picture you have painted about the future. Jeez. Anyone want to buy a locked first gen? I gotta go see if they make the Prius in black...
Spud/Sporin 2008!
Does all that really go through your head when you are driving off-road? Commendable my friend, commendable.
And that is also one helluva picture you have painted about the future. Jeez. Anyone want to buy a locked first gen? I gotta go see if they make the Prius in black...
Spud/Sporin 2008!
Just the facts man.
But seriously, I dont think that the future needs to be bleak. Surely where there is a will there is a way. But IMO, the 4x4 community does not have much of a leg to stand on as far as an arguement for "the right to have trails". That is based on my limited experience in reguards to, well I 'm not sure what the arguement or stand is. Perhaps Rblank could summarise the current stand being put forth by the "community".
A thought I had though, was perhaps some organized 4x4 groups could propose to the state a plan to build/construct & maintain new trails that were specifically designed to get people out into the woods to enjoy the atmosphere. This would best be pulled off by tieing it into a handicap rights issue. The trails would need to basically be as safe as a forest road, or else there would be liability issues as there are in all arenas these days. But I was thinking perhaps on state owned land that is currently State forest. My guess is that the trails would have to be tame and that would not be much fun/challenge.
As far as all that going through my mind...well actually yes. As I have lived through the years and concidered things as I grow in knowledge and experience I subpose one has a tendancy to form opinions. I think my opinion is based on what I believe to be right at this time. I am sure I would have had different opinions in the past, but hey I was less experienced so take it for what it was worth, and a grain of salt.
Good luck.
Good stuff. I also would like to know the current stand between the state and the clubs. What is being done and what is in progress (everywhere in New England but CT is my main concern)?
