The perfect Pan-American Expedition Vehicle (1 Viewer)

[joshoisasleep]

That's a really good idea. I can't imagine the shipping costs though!! Keep in mind the mog will be way better offroad... although those buses do seem to manage to get through just about anything...

I don't know how a unimog would be parts wise down here. I've seen plenty of merc trucks...

 

[sandcruiser]

get a small schoolbus

Not the itty bitty ones based on a van chassis, but the sorta medium sized ones that are still "real" buses, but shorter than a full-size bus thus allowing you to get in and out of towns where full-sized buses just won't work very well.

You might even be able to find a locking rear differential on a bus, somewhere. But a BIG winch will get you unstuck even if you've got 2wd. Suspension is a lot more of an issue on roads here than traction.

The bus will have ample space for 5 and 2 dogs. It'll also have space to do all manner of storage where the rear seats used to be. You can cut/weld doors into the exterior that you can secure yet still access easily for your exploits.

The larger size will help with idiot drivers (I'd rather be in a bus in a collision than just about anything else). Buses will certainly also blend in nicely as there are buses EVERYWHERE down here.

If you really want to, you can even partially or completely convert the vehicle to run on veggie oils. Would be greener than using diesel, maybe cheaper, but does introduce potential hassles and I'd stay away from it if you don't have any real experience with mechanicals.

Another thought: for the sake of meeting quality contacts along the way, I would suggest you plan to seat 6 people and the two dogs. You never know when you are going to want to pick up a hitcher or a guide to get you somewhere, or a guard who asks for a ride then wants to drink all your beer...

You could go with a Mog or big Volvo truck... but a bus should be dirt cheap somewhere up in the States and you can get parts everywhere, and you will probably save enough $$ on buying the bus to overcome the higher cost of $hipping across the gap.

Finally: you can sell the bus anywhere. There is demand.

 

[rchalmers3]

Why not Unimog!

The mogs way better not only off-road, but also better for on-road when there's truck eating potholes! I kept a tow strap in the Mogs I imported here. I used the strap at leeast once a week in the rainey season to pull trucks and busses out of the mud or rivers!

A bus would be great too, but it sounds like these boys want to go in style. Why go low brow!!!

Rick

 

[joshoisasleep]

get a small schoolbus

...

You could go with a Mog or big Volvo truck... but a bus should be dirt cheap somewhere up in the States and you can get parts everywhere, and you will probably save enough $$ on buying the bus to overcome the higher cost of $hipping across the gap.

Finally: you can sell the bus anywhere. There is demand.

I've just been doing some reading up and I really think this is a great idea.

Mog:
1 x unimog = $30,000
1 x mechanical workover = $3,000 (its an old mog, merc parts)
1 x trip, security, camping mods (incl having a whole rear cab/camper custom built up the way you want it for 5 passengers, dogs, bikes, and 5 people camping) = maybe $5,000
2 x shipping = $3,500 each way

cost = $45,000
mileage = 15mpg?


Old Cruiser:
2 x old 70 series diesel troopies/suitable 60s = $12,000 each
2 x mechanical workover = $2,000 each
2 x trip mods = $2,500 each (no need to build cabs, just purchase roof tents, fridges, winches etc)
4 x shipping = $1,000 each way per cruiser

cost = $37,000
mileage = 12.5mpg (25mpg/2)


New Cruiser:
2 x new 70 series troopies = $70,000 each
2 x gear and stuff = $2,500 each
4 x shipping = $1,000 each way per cruiser

cost = $149,000
12.5mpg (25mpg/2)


Old Schoolbus:
1 x bus = $3,000 on ebay
1 x refitting interior = $3,000 (sink, fridge, beds, security)
1 x mechanical workover = $2,000 (you can get a damn good/low mileage bus on ebay for $3,000)
2 x shipping = who knows... $6,000 each way?

cost = $20,000
mileage = 10mpg?

cont'd:
- 1 x shipping = -$6,000 if you don't ship the bus home
1 x sell bus in South America under the table = -$5,000

cost = $9,000


Awesome Intense (technically possible, not likely to survive though, and way too cozy):
1 x ancient rusted to death BJ60 from Vancouver = $1,800
1 x big tarp = $50
1 x machete = $4
1 x cheap tools $100
1 x RORO shipping = $550

cost = $2,540 (numbers for this method I can personally confirm)
mileage = 25mpg
cont'd:
1 x South American bodywork (now locally deemed rust free) = $1,000 tops
1 x sell (rust free) landcruiser under the table in South America = -$4,000 *

cost = -$460


* it's amazing how well they hold their value down there - I once had customs value mine at $8,000 and it was a gas 62 on the papers... its really beat up looking, thats like a $1,500 truck in the US.


The last one was kind of a joke, even I didn't go THAT ghetto. Also factor that the schoolbus is an excellent platform for veggie oil use, as it has room for all your filtering/processing equipment, and can store lots of fuel allowing you to stock up/leave it settling. If you're outfitting on the super cheap (like me!), than fuel costs might be a bigger budgeting issue than vehicle purchase on a trip like this.
Those numbers just came out as I typed, but I actually think they're pretty conservative.

 

[sandcruiser]

the mog is more stylish, more durable, wayyyy better in bad bad muddy conditions (than a bus).

The bus is much much less expensive to buy and repair, also probably gets better mileage and has higher top-end speed. From what I recall, the mogs can't do much over 60, ever. That would make Mexico seem like a very long country indeed.

If I were doing a trip with 7 ~150lb animals (average sizes?), I would prefer to have a Mog than any of the other options. Two cruisers would be my second choice (1 lwb, 1 swb, probably) and a bus my third choice. If I were to look realistically at the prices, I think a bus would start looking pretty good. The 20K you save on purchase can go a loooong way on fuel.

 

[Jlit]

Wow, you guys are totally awesome. I can definitely see what you mean dave (dmc), this group of Land Cruiser users are all very helpful, and I appreciate it more than you can imagine.

"notonyourlife", please let me be the first to apologize for the typo in the letter we sent you regarding dog sponsorship. We have been researching many different breeds, and have narrowed it down to 3-4 possibilities based on superiority and excellent reputation. We have been mailing various breeders around the country, and I think the error on our part is inexcusable, and I thank you for bringing it to my attention. As for posting Irish wolf-hound on this forum, I did this because it's the largest of the 3 candidates, and I'd like to plan for the most cumbersome possibility. My motto is be prepared. If you would email me with your personal contact info, I will happily relay this to our office manager who has been working very hard in regards to sponsorship, and we would like to mail you a formal apology.

Also Dave, I agree the security film window tinting is an awesome idea we've been discussing for a while. I will definitely look into that further.

I had heard from another friend familiar with central america travel that the short bus could be a good option. For our route down south, however, we'll be traveling along the western side through chile and tierra del fuego where it is my understanding the winds will be so powerful, it could blow a bus over. Which vehicles would prevail through these conditions?

Also, the cyclists are planning on crossing the darien, so after we in the vehicle arrive in cartagena, we are considering driving as far west as possible off the 1 to meet them to continue shooting. It's my understanding those dirt logging roads are quite sinister in both security and road conditions. Would a short bus work for such extreme conditions?

If a unimog were the case, are there any issues bringing such a burly vehicle through countries down there? I'm hesitant to bring down something that would look so appealing to cartels or militia.

 

[joshoisasleep]

hate to be a naysayer but...

these are the people who used to write the guidebook, and they say it's a bad idea....

I just talked to a guy whose brother tried it recently, and he was apparently turned away by the police. Be prepared to wait for your cyclists for some time... they may never show up at all. They DO realize they'll have to carry their bikes and gear, right? If they're actually going to try it they'd be much better off to leave the bikes with you and get some good long-term trek hiking gear packed...

 

[dmc]

takeaseat.org

i ran into dominic in bolivia near Uyuni. he tried to cycle the darien and gave up when he found a canoe that could get him to an island with a boat.
dmc

 

[gringocl]

Two things I can add to this thread.

1. Fully armored LandCruisers can be had in Central America Used. I was told that the drivetrain is pretty beatup because of the extra weight and strain. Fully plated underbelly and doors add quite a bit of weight.

2. Security Film would be a cool idea especially on the rear windows. The clear film though tends to distort the vision slightly. If you used film with a slight amount of color it will look better but still distort the vision.

miles

 

[Alvaro]

Driving towards the border from Colombia is definitely not a good idea, wait for them in Medellin, that area close to the Panama border is one of the few areas in Colombia where you should not go, cyclists may get through unnoticed but 1 or 2 expedition loaded vehicles may not...

Regards,

 

[Jlit]

Yeah, that's been my thought as well regarding driving towards panama. I think it's a really good idea for us to wait in medellin. From the last few days, however, we do agree that bikes through the darien would be a bad idea, so they will likely walk through as recommended. Once they clear the jungle, it would be best if they can start riding as soon as possible. What do you guys think about taking a cache with bicycles near there for them to pick up once they're through? Perhaps I could leave the vehicle and girls in medellin, and drop off equipment with the help of local enforcement? If they knew the location, could a small cache be hidden?

We've been looking further into unimog options for the vehicle, but to the best of my understanding, they're only available with a 2 seat cab, whereas we need something for 5-6. To outfit something bigger from Unicat, a larger expedition vehicle with a large cab and basic setup in the back, we were quoted around 700,000 dollars. Our goal with this whole mission is to raise awareness and build schools and orphanages, and 700,000 is more than I could justify, much less find sponsors to justify it as well.

I would rather not go with ford, but I don't know of a toyota setup large enough to outfit us with one vehicle. Is there an equivalent to an F-350, diesel, turbo, crew cab, extended bed? Even that fully outfitted, I think we could be short on space.

Thanks.

 

[joshoisasleep]

Just get a custom cab made (as mentioned in my little cost estimate ). I'm sure someone on here must know someone who does it.

I don't see any advantage to an F350. I think if you really want the "camper" on the back there's a lot of superior platforms that can be added to. And I think with that setup you'll DEFINITELY be short on space. If you didn't want self sufficiency I'd say no problem take a BJ60... or a pink cadilac. But if you're not planning on staying in hotels the whole way, then sleeping and carrying that many people, PLUS your gear which takes up a lot of space. Basically I don't really think the campered pickup gives you much if any space advantage over a 60 with a roof tent. With that weight at that distance in those conditions, your F350 is also going to fall apart.

Old army trucks can be had cheap too. I think they sometimes have PTO winches. Maybe finding out if there's something you can get that's in commercial use in South America for parts availability would be a good idea.

 

[cruiser_guy]

If you're looking for a single vehicle large enough for housing and transporting 5-6 people just get an old school bus as has been suggested earlier and do what you need to so you can travel and live in that. There are lots of old US school buses doing public bus duty in Central America.

 

[Jlit]

Ok, we're thinking pretty affirmatively of a compromise between all of the above. We're thinking of going with 2 vehicles for safety: 2 toyota 08 tundras, crew cab, short bed(because you can't get a longer bed with the crew cab), camper shell, and just fixing them up a little to work, ie, roof rack, bumpers, lifts, winches, aquatic setup for the rainy season, and wheels. What do you guys think?

 

[Wanna_40]

Hello all,

I've been lurking for a couple years actually but this is my first post... I see Unimogs mentioned which I think might be a good idea but dang parts are expensive for them, top speed/mileage is bad and cab options are limiting. Why not one of the Volvo C30X/TGB trucks? My uncle has a TGB 1313 (C304?) that was previously a Swedish radio truck which he converted to a camper and is currently treking across Africa in... Talk about plenty of room, plus it has somewhat better top speed/mileage as a mog. Not to mention, they use the Volvo B30 engine and Landrover brake parts so they are available and at a fraction of mog parts. I'm in the process of buying a C303/TGB 11 that I'm setting up to drive to Costa Rica this time next year.

Do a google image search for TGB 1313 or 1314, I think that could be easily modified to perfectly suit your needs.

-JD

 

[sandcruiser]

Two Tundras are pretty likely to make it just fine. If you were going for longer than about a year, you might want to look at older vehicles (easier to fix/find parts)

You might also seriously consider two diesel 80-series trucks. You can get them in Panama for pretty good prices, then either ship them up to the USA or drive them up in about a week of *hard* driving.

Even if you don't go diesel... I'd rather use two 80series cruisers than two Tundras. More durable. Less breakable. Better comfort. And wayyyyyyyyyy easier to source parts in Central America (Tundras aren't a popular option in Costa Rica at least-- you can get a hilux for 4 people or a landcruiser pickup for real work). With the 80, you could also find two good quality vehicles w/ lockers. Then real expedition mods have been tried and proven by dozens of people on this list alone.

You would have slightly more cargo space in the Tundras. But with two vehicles for 5 people, you shouldn't be too cramped on cargo.

Final thought: Skip the Wolfhounds!! Based on the comments by that breeder, you haven't got the dogs yet and are rather getting them for this trip. A wolfhound is going to weigh in at 130lbs or so and measure nearly a meter at the withers. That's a bad choice in a vehicle for long periods. And just imagine A) how frikkin hot they are going to be (Central America, for the most part, does not resemble Ireland in temperature) and B) how *amazingly* bad they are going to smell after they roll in the mud to cool off.

I know, you are worried about security. Fair enough. But, and this will be backed up by every single central american Mudder: People in Central America have a very large measure of respect for the damage that a small dog can do. Said otherwise: folks down here are afraid of dogs. If someone is going to disturb you/your camp with a 30-50lb dog present, they are going to do the same to a 130lb dog.... the sick and sad truth is that they'll throw a pound of hamburger meat with some poison in it and the size of the dog isn't going to make much difference.

I've got a mutt that weighs in at 23kg (about 50lbs) measures less than 2 feet at the withers, and will scare the living crap out of anyone who wanders into my camp/car when they shouldn't be there. She eats 1/3 as much as a wolfhound, and can curl up neatly into the front footwell of the cruiser even if someone is sitting in the passenger seat (not for hours at a time). In a pinch, I can carry here under one arm (for a little while) if she is hurt or if there are a bunch of army ants (been there, done that).

Short-hair dogs can wear a blanket if it gets really cold. They dry quickly and don't shed everywhere. Most importantly-- they are easy to clean up after the mud.

Get a pit bull mix. They are compact and notoriously protective.

Another GREAT option would be an Australian shepherd, but they are really high-energy and might not do so great for 8 hours at a stretch in the car. But they are smart, attentive and protective.

Or heck, for that matter, get a small-sized lab (I think the "english" ones are smaller than the "american"). Sweet dogs, but plenty willing to protect their pack.

The point is- you don't need a HUGE beast, unless you plan to use them as your last-ditch recovery technique for getting the trucks out of the mud, in which case.... bring ponies.

 

[joshoisasleep]

Another GREAT option would be an Australian shepherd

Or a short-haired, long-tailed, short-legged, long-toothed australian fighting dog...

We spent hours and hours before we left trying to come up with the ultimate Vehicle Protection Pet. Many people suggested that dogs are a bad idea because they can get you into more trouble than they'll get you out of. Also, because of the way they cool themselves (tongue only), they are a bad choice as they will die in a hot car.

We came up with:
1. a very large snake. Snakes will happily lie on a hot dashboard all day, and if you get a dangerous one, nobody wants to break into your car (unless they deal in exotic pets!). Cons: snakes are not cuddly, and it might also kill you
2. Goose. In a car... What were we thinking?
3. Medium sized cat. Really, does the average car thief want to fight off an ocelot or a bobcat? A female would be cuddly (apparently bobcats are extremely loyal to their owners). Also, in a pinch it could hunt for food!

in the end, we ended up with a very tiny kitten that we found in the street. She sleeps on the dashboard, and we like to think that the presence of even a very small animal prevents break ins, because there's something alive inside. She also bites a lot if they tried to pet her.

Ideally, I would like a large orangutan. He'd be happy hanging onto the roofrack or sitting inside, and could pull off a thief's arms. Also, with the right training he could act as a valet!

OK this is getting silly...

 

[joshoisasleep]

had a look on toyota Costa Rica website last night. Diesel 70's (1HZ) are currently sold brand new. Didn't have prices though.

 

[canucksafari]

Ever see a dog with mange? Likelihood your dogs will catch mange is probably 100% if you spend a lot of time in the countryside and allow your dogs out where other dogs are running or have run. Do you want to ride with dogs which have mange?

 

[dmc]

08 Tundras are VERY uncommon south of the US. brand new they'll be fine but also attract attention. the new 200 series cruisers south of the US get the old 4.7 v8 or a diesel so do not share drivetrain components with the Tundra.

maybe look into something like this. a helluva a lot cheaper for 2 than 700k. it was very nice and clean inside, tons of room and they could separate themselves from the cab and essentially lock themselves in the camper section.

spare parts would be widely available throughout your trip for the drivetrain. it has lockers, a long range tank and diesel for economy.
dmc