The Lions back....

[SINCITY100]

"On paper" arguments - like yours - are pretty damned flimsy, malformed, and not really worth the paper they're printed on.

I've seen tricked out Rubicons get stuck and break where my little diesel Samurai wouldn't. I've have my Sammi get stuck where a Discovery never could. I've seen H2s go places that every Jeep Mangler failed to get to the whole weekend - no matter how hard they tried.

They all have different suspension systems, they all have different strengths and they all have different weaknesses. At the end of the day, however, it was the driver's and spotter's ability to work with the rig to get it where it needed to go.

The moron who thought his rig was better with it's (busted) solid axles or it's (nonfunctioning) air lockers was the guy who nobody was willing to strap, winch or lend tools to.

I hope your cell phone has good range, and that AAA is willing to tow you out of wherever you get stuck.

On the trail, we're all equal...although sometimes some are more equal than others.

SHAZAAM !!

(well put BTW..)

 

[mapleton cruiser]

amen brother!!!!!!!!

 

[65-fj45]

There is no doubt that the Rubicon is superior to the FJC
when it comes to offroad capabilities.(Solid Axles, Air Lockers)
I would give the nod to the FJC as a better daily driver.
You are the moron.

Are you trying to get banned AGAIN?

 

[FusionCruiser]

i think he is doubting the suburban's ability to do it and seems to have a bit of a Rubicon is better than the FJC going on in his posts. Which is fine but argue actual merits like solid axle vs IFS etc. Not 'can the FJ do this?'
dmc

Ahhh, I see ... he's crazy (rubi better than FJ)

I was out at lunch and took a couple of pics so just for fun... Here's one that's totally off topic.

 

[ridgerunner]

I rode with Bill Burke of Bill Burke's 4-Wheeling America (www.bb4wa.com) up and down Lion's Back twice for a training article and sometimes he suggests putting the truck in Neutral and therefore taking the driveline out of the equation--not trying in any way to pull you down the rock.

Can you expound on this a little? It sounds as if you're saying that you should put the truck in neutral and coast down with your foot on your brakes.

Because if that's what you're saying, I'll never read anything of Bill Burke's again and believe he has any credibility.

 

[Vitesse_6]

Can you expound on this a little? It sounds as if you're saying that you should put the truck in neutral and coast down with your foot on your brakes.

Because if that's what you're saying, I'll never read anything of Bill Burke's again and believe he has any credibility.

Agree'd ......did I mention

 

[saskdiesel]

I rode with Bill Burke of Bill Burke's 4-Wheeling America (www.bb4wa.com) up and down Lion's Back twice for a training article and sometimes he suggests putting the truck in Neutral and therefore taking the driveline out of the equation--not trying in any way to pull you down the rock.

There is a time and place for this technique and obviously requires brakes to be in top shape. But Bill knows what he's talking about.

I would never try this on Lions back. Any hydraulic failure and you would be dead.
Now in 4 low if your engine stalled ( in my manual rig anyways) you would simply go from a crawl to a stop. I would think this is better than accelerating down the Lions back.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I hesitate to post on this thread given the strong feelings of some of the posters. However, Lion's back is a stunt. There are harder and steeper pitches on almost every other trail in Moab. I have never driven an FJC, yet I am CERTAIN it could do Lion's back with absolutely no effort. Find me at Cruise Moab, and I will be happy to drive your FJC up and down Lion's Back as many times as you like. Heck, a Subaru could probably do it. I agree that it is a tourist attraction. Dive 1 minute up the road and do mini-Lion's Back, or the start of Hell's Revenge or 3 minutes and do Fins and Things. They are all free and more interesting trails besides with the same sort of prolonged steep pitches.

As to descending out of gear-That's just crazy and very bad advice. If your brakes fade from the heat-you are going down hard. An automatic in low will still provide some engine braking, but you will need the brakes to keep your speed down. A very low geared manual would make this descent a piece of cake.

The famous debacles on Lion's back have been the result of driver error (Blazer-appearently not in gear and the brakes failed) and Alcohol (4Runner). I heard that someone drove off the backside of the top last year....That had to hurt.

 

[green73]

my post wasn't intended to single out "lions back" pbsticle, but steep descents in general.

 

[4WD Toyota Owner Magazine]

not on Lion's, no

You wouldn't do that on Lion's; sorry for being unclear. It is meant more for downhills like ledges--like White Knuckle at Moab. One doesn't just drive off it. Being in neutral (or clutch in) allows very slow and deliberate crawling to soften the impact of the front bumper.

 

[4WD Toyota Owner Magazine]

thank you!

I have only seen the lion in pics and vids on the 'Net, but it scares me
Maybe its different in person.

David , off topic here, but I want to say I finally ordered your magazine on Sunday, and I just got it today!
Will be looking it over tonight.
Been meaning to order it for a very long time.

Thanks Corey!

 

[DBS311]

Warpedone, have you even been to Moab??? You remind me of the type that camp out at the bottom of Lion's Back and watch trucks go up and down all day and think it is the most spectacular display of off-road ability.

I watched a stock Burban go up and down. Why roll your eyes???

I just realized that you started this thread with the fact that a stock Rubicon did Lion's Back. Do you SERIOUSLY think that equates to bragging rights???
I would be far more impressed with watching a stock double cab TRD Taco (albeit with MTR's) climb up the left side of Potato Salad Hill with two hotties in the back seats. Oh yeah, I witnessed that as well.

 

[warpedone]

I stand corrected, I have found out that a lot of vehicles
have done the Lionsback so I guess my Rubicon isnt
such hot stuff after all.
The Jeep guys had me convinced that my Rubicon is
something really special.

 

[FJCruiserOwnersGroup]

I stand corrected, I have found out that a lot of vehicles
have done the Lionsback so I guess my Rubicon isnt
such hot stuff after all.
The Jeep guys had me convinced that my Rubicon is
something really special.

Your Rubicon IS special...for a Jeep.








Now, before the Jeep guys jump all over me, or the anti-Jeep guys jump on the bandwagon they think I'm on, I point out the post I made earlier, in which I stated that every rig has it's inherent strengths and weaknesses.

Of the Jeep Wranglers, the Rubicon is the be-all, end-all of the factory off-road rigs. I like it - although my experience is limited solely to the a 2003 TR edition (did I mention that I just finished Tomb Raider Legend?) - and a multitude of non-Rubi Wranglers.


You've got a nice truck, and should be proud of it.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I agree. For a stock truck, the J**P Rubicon is the best out there if your sole interest is to go 4 wheeling in your stock truck. The reality is, most people can't really afford to 4 wheel a $30K new Rubicon, and so start with a cheaper vehicle and go from there. It really is better as well to separate your commuter from your 4 wheeler.

I'm a Toyota guy to the bone, but I wish Toyota made a SWB truck like the Rubicon. Remember the Rubicon comes STOCK with the really low gears that are the difference between OK trail rig and great trail rig. You could do worse for sure.

Imagine if the FJC was solid front axle with a 4:1 transfercase and lockers. Every Cruiserhead in the USA would be lining up to buy one.

 

[dmc]

There is no doubt that the Rubicon is superior to the FJC
when it comes to offroad capabilities.(Solid Axles, Air Lockers)
I would give the nod to the FJC as a better daily driver.
You are the moron.

really? superior to FJC. I hadn't realized solid axles and lockers were the sole determing factors of off-road superiority. you have a very narrow perspective of what off-roading is. But what should we expect you are from Kansas. Damn fine basketball not quite the mecca of 4wheeling. you are aware the most expensive, most technically advanced and most capable off road trucks in the world are IFS right? just thought i'd check.

So i wheel all the time with a guy who has a TJ with ARBs, 35's and an experienced driver. For a long time I drove a moderately modded Taco. OME and 32s. Factory e-locker. We'd go to Moab. Run trails together. Some obstacles I could attempt. Some he'd be out of luck. We wheeled just fine together in the realm of Solid Axle and Lockers. For the hard trails (helldorados etc) he'd bring his Willy's Buggy and I'd bring my 40. Aside from dragging him off the trail everytime we'd be just fine. On the way home we take the scenic route. About 60 miles of dirt road. A few spots we needed 4 low but basically just open desert. Well as I'd rally through at 80+, drifting through corners, catching air I'd never see him. When we got to pavement i'd have to wait a while for him to catch up.

The logic I guess is that lockers and solid axles ARE NOT the end all of off-road capability. Much like Lion's Back is more for show than substance. You can't base any comparison on one feature or one obstacle. All that being said I sold my Taco and purchased my 80. Solid axle, lockers, coils springs. It's nowhere near the high speed demon my Taco was and that is partially the reason for the swap. An accident at high speed is far more dangerous than one going slow. Secondly, I'm dumb. My mechanical skills are limited. I know how a solid axle works and can do pm work on it because of my 40. IFS is something i don't know about nor want to learnt. For ME and my wheeling activities the FZJ80 is the perfect vehicle. Lockers, good wheel base (apparently jeep agrees, thus the unlimited rubicon) solid axle and coil springs.

However, I would never take a Rubicon just because it has a solid axle, gears and lockers, over an FJC. IFS can be dealt with. A skilled driver with a good spotter can take it where it needs to go. Hell I did the Rubicon in my Taco without too much hassle. The key is I've never had my toyotas pulled off the trail by a jeep. I can't remember the times I've had the pleasure of pulling a jeep of the trail. This isn't myth and me drinking the Toyota Kool Aid. This is my experience. I apologize for calling you a moron. I've realized that your criteria for off-roading is very narrow. As it should be to justify buying a Rubicon.
dmc

oh yeah, my next truck? IFS desert truck for Baja.

 

[warpedone]

I admit that I am a rookie when it comes to offroading.
I should have done my homework instead of buying
into all of the Rubicon hype.

 

[WES1977]

I like the Rubicons. I've looked at them. I bought a FJ40 cause it's a toyota, it's heavy duty, and It will be cheaper now and in the long run to maintain. I have to admit I didn't look under the rubicon, but there is no way I would go with the normal jeep small axles. Is the Rubicons any better? I know they run Dana 44s. I have talked to people about jeeps and most are not jeeps. One guy put a jeep body on a F-250 frame. Another guy has all FJ40 drivetrain on a jeep.

 

[hatman406080]

hattrick

 

[DBS311]

Does anybody have pics of FJC's on trails in Moab? I would love to see some. There had to have been some at EJS.