Thank you Slee- PowerStop rotors and Pads

[ntsaint]

Mine weren't in bad shape when I pulled them. But I can tell a distinct difference in the stopping power of the truck. Stopping power is strong but smooth.

Sent from my iPhone using IH8MUD

 

[Layonnn]

Agree. You can not compare old worn brakes to brand new disks and pads fairly. I would say the actuall difference is fairly modest. I think modulation is better (probably more due to the pads) there is less fade if you are on them all the time (disks) but overall stopping power is not appreciably different from what I could tell.

I agree. I just replaced mine with new OEM rotors and pads and it stops very well. I can very easily lock the wheels up with the power of these. I still need to flush the fluid. Much more confident braking than my 80.

 

[APKhaos]

I have had the above rotors installed for ~30K Miles. Zero issues and they perform well. I use AXIS ULT pads from Zeckhausen, They are in need of replacement and I will use the same thing for the next go around.

You are 100% right. While the pads may give you a better feel, no combination of rotors, pads, and even calipers will give you more braking effort. The stock setup is perfectly capable of locking up the wheels, and that is the limit of braking effort. Bigger rotors and calipers will provide a better heat sink, and will take more punishment without fading, but that's all they will do. Its the tires that limit absolute braking effort.

 

[phsycle]

Mine weren't in bad shape when I pulled them. But I can tell a distinct difference in the stopping power of the truck. Stopping power is strong but smooth.

Sent from my iPhone using IH8MUD

Just to clarify--I do think pads make a difference. Not so much for rotors. Unless you used identical pads on those two rotors (Slee and OEM), you can't make a fair comparison. You felt a difference, because you used NEW equipment with "better" pads. My guess is if we had two trucks with the same pads and two different rotors, you wouldn't be able to tell any difference between the two.

 

[Layonnn]

You are 100% right. While the pads may give you a better feel, no combination of rotors, pads, and even calipers will give you more braking effort. The stock setup is perfectly capable of locking up the wheels, and that is the limit of braking effort. Bigger rotors and calipers will provide a better heat sink, and will take more punishment without fading, but that's all they will do. Its the tires that limit absolute braking effort.

First, i don't know very much about braking technology. But, i do know a lot about physics.

I would think that having larger rotors would mean that you could apply more braking force as you are grabbing at a further radial distance from the center of the wheel. The further you are from the center the more torque can be applied.

Torque = (distance from rotational axis/pivot) X (force applied perpendicular to the radial direction)
T= r X F (cross product, not multiply)

I would imagine it would just enable the driver less force required in order to be able to lock the brakes up.

 

[APKhaos]

I would imagine it would just enable the driver less force required in order to be able to lock the brakes up.

That's exactly right. For the same caliper and master cylinder, a larger diameter rotor would result in less system pressure required to achieve a given braking torque, but the upper bound of braking torque is limited by the tires. Most drivers won't notice the difference in pedal pressure unless its dramatic. When we are dealing with the delta between two rotors of near-identical diameter [stock vs Slee vs any stock diameter rotors], its not a factor. The pad characteristics are more likely to change the feel of the system.

 

[Layonnn]

That's exactly right. For the same caliper and master cylinder, a larger diameter rotor would result in less system pressure required to achieve a given braking torque, but the upper bound of braking torque is limited by the tires. Most drivers won't notice the difference in pedal pressure unless its dramatic. When we are dealing with the delta between two rotors of near-identical diameter [stock vs Slee vs any stock diameter rotors], its not a factor. The pad characteristics are more likely to change the feel of the system.

Ah gotcha, makes sense.
Has anyone replaced their in "good" condition OEM pads with aftermarket pads and noticed much of a difference? (retaining stock rotors)

 

[sonk76]

That's exactly right. For the same caliper and master cylinder, a larger diameter rotor would result in less system pressure required to achieve a given braking torque, but the upper bound of braking torque is limited by the tires. Most drivers won't notice the difference in pedal pressure unless its dramatic. When we are dealing with the delta between two rotors of near-identical diameter [stock vs Slee vs any stock diameter rotors], its not a factor. The pad characteristics are more likely to change the feel of the system.

Where this gets really interesting is when folks run larger tires ... my stock OEM brakes are NOT able to lock the tires with my 35" tires (and some extra weight) unless the ground is wet or otherwise traction compromised (e.g., loose sand, etc.)

This is the reason I've been interested in larger diameter rotors...

 

[APKhaos]

Where this gets really interesting is when folks run larger tires ... my stock OEM brakes are NOT able to lock the tires with my 35" tires (and some extra weight) unless the ground is wet or otherwise traction compromised (e.g., loose sand, etc.)

This is the reason I've been interested in larger diameter rotors...

Good point. Larger tire diameter shifts the curve of brake torque required to lock the wheels.
There are three solutions, and each one is spendy:
- Larger rotors, which often also means larger diameter wheels to allow them to fit. Also means caliper mount adapters to move the stock calipers AND retain both mount rigidity and clearances from wheels and inconvenient suspension components that get in the way.
- Larger calipers, where larger means both bigger pads for more swept area AND a larger piston surface area, usually through more pistons. Even stronger caliper mounting adapters are needed too.
- Both of the above

It tough being pioneer with mods like this. Brake bias front to rear can become a nasty issue requiring pressure limiting valves for the rear circuit, etc etc. If you can find someone who has done it and can give you a known good setup then jump all over it.

 

[phsycle]

Ah gotcha, makes sense.
Has anyone replaced their in "good" condition OEM pads with aftermarket pads and noticed much of a difference? (retaining stock rotors)

Not on my LC, but on other cars. I frequently drive up and down mountain passes and these pads seemed to do pretty well. This is what I'd like to get next when I do my brake job.

http://www.importrp.com/product.php?productid=193527&cat=0&page=1

(Never ordered from this company. Just posting for reference).

 

[APKhaos]

FWIW, I've been running Akebono ceramics on my ML430. I really like 'em. Good initial bite, good modulation, very low dust and no noise. Massive improvement, and very popular with the ML crowd [OK, I know they're kinda lacy panties, but these pads are good, OK?]

They have LC fitment for 100 series 1999 - 2006. The link is for the front pad. The rear pad is ACT773

http://www.amazon.com/Akebono-ACT772-ProACT-Ultra-Premium-Ceramic/dp/B000C1LLIW/?tag=ihco-20

EDIT: Akebobno also have fitment for later model 100's too. For 2007+ the numbers are ACT1303 front and ACT1304 rear.

 

[phsycle]

I'll have to check out those Akebono's, too.

Yet, another opinion on the rear pad. Obviously not as important as the front pads. I really don't notice any difference what kind of a pad I've got in the back. So I've been just using Autozone Duralast Gold pads (Ceramic). Nothing special, but they do have a lifetime warranty. According to several managers, this means that even if the pads just wear out normally, you get a fresh set. Free.

 

[1loudLX]

Good point. Larger tire diameter shifts the curve of brake torque required to lock the wheels.
There are three solutions, and each one is spendy:
- Larger rotors, which often also means larger diameter wheels to allow them to fit. Also means caliper mount adapters to move the stock calipers AND retain both mount rigidity and clearances from wheels and inconvenient suspension components that get in the way.
- Larger calipers, where larger means both bigger pads for more swept area AND a larger piston surface area, usually through more pistons. Even stronger caliper mounting adapters are needed too.
- Both of the above

It tough being pioneer with mods like this. Brake bias front to rear can become a nasty issue requiring pressure limiting valves for the rear circuit, etc etc. If you can find someone who has done it and can give you a known good setup then jump all over it.

it's been done already

 

[APKhaos]

it's been done already

Nice setup. That's doing it right! I think I see rotor to hat fasteners. Are they floating rotors?

Yet, another opinion on the rear pad. *Obviously not as important as the front pads.

Rear pads are less critical, but still important. Street vehicles are set up for as much as 70/30 brake bias front/rear.
Under heavy braking, the rear wheels get light so the amount of braking they can do before lockup is much less than the fronts. That's why rear brake bias is so much less than the front. The last thing you want is to have the rear wheels lock first. Thing tend to get interesting when that happens.

Still, if you use the same pad compound front and rear the design brake bias is preserved [assuming the components are sound]. Mixing compounds can get interesting because the effects on brake bias can be hard to predict and the time you discover this is when you really need things to work properly.

 

[Layonnn]

Loud, what wheels and what size are those?

 

[bluecruiser]

Loud, what wheels and what size are those?

that is Dans truck. Spressomon.

 

[Mxndrnks]

Loud, what wheels and what size are those?

As bluecruiser pointed out. Those are spresso's. Goodyear Kevlar MTR 35" in a 285 on tundra 18's with the big brake kit.

 

[super90]

FWIW, I've been running Akebono ceramics on my UZJ. I really like 'em. Good initial bite, good modulation, very low dust and no noise. Massive improvement....]

They have LC fitment for 100 series 1999 - 2006.

I'm running Akebono ceramics on my TLC. My rotors had lots of life in them, just had them turned instead of buying the Powerstop's (which I really wanted). I feel like there was noticeable improvement over OEM pads.

Will probably put them on the LX soon.

Used Akebono on my 80-series too with good results.

 

[bamabrock]

The eBay ad lists those rotors as "Kinetic" and the pads as "PowerStop". Now who knows if the rotors are the same, my PowerStops came marked "Made in China". I can tell you the rotors in the ad are stock photos, and not the specific LC rotors. That price on eBay however is damn good, maybe too good to be true. I paid $400 shipped for my PowerStop kit.

I upgraded a month ago to the PowerStop kit on our four corners with PowerStop ceramic brake pads. The breaking power is night and day, WAY better. I was starting to get a little worried with all the added weight/armor and 35 tires. The added braking power is VERY welcomed.

I have them on the way. A lot of different car forums spoke highly of their rotors and pads.

 

[pfran42]

Quick question about installing the PowerStop pads... Are you supposed to use the OEM anti-squeal shims + the OEM backing plates or just the OEM backing plates + something like CRC Disk Brake Quiet on the back of the pads?