TBI Swap

[Kurtis]

Heres a List of what it took to do this motor and trans aside if anyone else is ever intersted in a swap. I paid $325 for a complete tbi and ecm no harness and 107k miles. The tranny is a built 4l60e.

1. Adaptor from advanced adaptors with built in vss and motor mounts about $900.

2. Wiring harness from FuelInjectionConnection.com $325 shipped. Overall I was very happy with the harness. There were 2 wires going in to a wrong location I had to track down but other than that it was great. one was a wire into the ecm to tell the computer how fast it was going, it was in a wrong slot and told the ecm I was going double the speed. The other was the heated o2 sensor wire was plugged in the wrong slot in the fuse bank making it run all the time and killing the battery. After solving these it worked great long enough to go under the front seat and reach all the sensors very happy made the project alot easier and I have the comfort of knowing all the wiring is new.

3. Fuel Pump filters and fittings. $225 from aztpi.com. They actually are local here but ship all over the place. Its a Walbro GSL395. Works great its inline and pretty easy to hook up.

4. Exhaust. $220 I made my own, I was quoted $475 for single. 2 2 1/4 from the manifolds to a 3 inch y to a 3 inch cat 3 inch out into a 3 inch inlet on a dual out flowmaster knockoff muffler. Then its dual 2 1/2s out behind the each rear tire in between the leaf and frame. Works good sounds awesome.

5. B&M Sport Shifter $180 fits nice looks cool and works great with the 4l60e.

6. A/C and Power steering lines. $120 made locally at a hose shop.

7. High pressure fuel line and other fuel line about $100-120.

8. Radiator hoses $85

9. Nuts bolts self tapping screws $100.

10. Crossmember, I made it $ 50.

11. Tank of welding gas $ 28

12. The engine was in pretty good shape but I resealed the intake rear main and fuel injector pod $60 .

13. I replaced all the sensors while is was at it $150.

14. I also had the injectors rebuilt and balanced $60.

15. Temp gauge $30

16. Wire $50

17. This is pretty optional but I had the alternator rebuilt as a 1 wire alternator for simplicity. that was $70

Thats $2773 Plus motor and trans. Altogether I spent $3500. Its a very simple motor and simple fuel injection setup comparativly which is one of the reasons I picked it. With my driving habbits in town I get 13.7-15 and highway 75-80mph 16-17. With the 2f I got about 10-11 all around. This is with 35s.

Its drives great starts everytime, does 75-80 up the mountains here. I defiantly could use some lower gears though as I'm stock gears with 35 inch tires. I'll probably just go with some 4.11s out of a 62 when the brakes need done or knuckles need rebuilt next time.

 

[emes]

Just found your thread, and thanks a million. I'll buy you a beer if your ever make it to SC. I had three questions and your thread answered them all. I am completing the install of a 91 350 TBI in my very nice 89 FJ62 that is getting an extreme makeover. It will be stock for the most part but will have plenty of interstate power. Thanks again.

 

[Kurtis]

Glad it helped, you'll enjoy it when your done.Its like driving a differeant vehicle with the v8. What transmission did you end up going with? Sounds like you have a pretty good setup going you'll have to post up some pictures of the project sometime.

 

[emes]

I kept the Toy transmission, after much debate. I have the donor trans and transfer case, just in case. I will post some pics and info once we are through. The motor and trans came out of a EMS 1991 Suburban with only 20,000 miles. I chromed it out and it looks great - we"ll see how it runs.

 

[bridges]

Kurtis or other TBI swappers - If you had the opportunity to get the full donor vehicle, would you still buy the custom wiring harness or use the donor vehicle wiring?

Is the benefit specifically new wiring or is there some ease of installation as well?

Just starting my research and this thread had great information!

Thanks!

 

[lehiguy]

Kurtis or other TBI swappers - If you had the opportunity to get the full donor vehicle, would you still buy the custom wiring harness or use the donor vehicle wiring?

Is the benefit specifically new wiring or is there some ease of installation as well?

Just starting my research and this thread had great information!

Thanks!

I used a GM harness, it was easy enough. I went through it wire by wire, comparing everything to the schematics untill I had labeled everything I needed and removed every thing I did not. It was a huge help as to what all the components are and where they go, etc.

 

[Kurtis]

Personally I would probably still buy the harness. I just wanted everything to be new and it saves a lot of time. Going through a factory harness gives you a pretty good look at what everything does like Lehi said but for me for the extra $300 bucks plug and play was nice. I have the schematic and had to go through and re run a couple wires when it was done due to a couple things being wired to the wrong fuse by the harness company and draining my battery but I found the TBI wiring system to be very simple.

Either way works but its defiantly quick and easy with the new harness. Plus all the odd stuff is labeled and has generic connectors, Like the A/C idle up for the ecm, oil pressure, Electronic speedo output neutral safety torque converter lockup etc.

 

[e30fj62]

I'm right beetween my 62 v8 swap to, also bought the kit and engine mounts from AA, but i went with the 350 700r combo... progress is slow now is up to the "Oh cr@p where do i put this friggin engine now" stage...

On the next few days, i'll try to position the engine on the frame and start marking some reference points and such...

if you don't mind me asking ...

What did you choose for the AA adapter-crossmember mount?
did you use the stock fj60 rear crossmember?...
did you modify your driveshafts?...


thxs and nice build!

 

[Kurtis]

I want to say I ordered a new 60 mount and it worked well. I built a simple cross member from scratch that worked pretty well. I'm looking for tube benders at the moment so I'll probably fab something up a little fancier when I get it. I honestly just took 2 pieces of tube welded new brackets to the frame and used some flat steel in between the 2 tubes to build a mounting plate. I was short on time with this swap so it was functional and all I cared about.

I would to have had to modify the both drive shafts. From what I see there is really no good way around this. I only modified the rear though just to get me by because I went SOA a month later and ordered to custom long travel high angle c/v shafts.

I went High with my motor placing and it worked out well, no oil pan issues or anything. For reference I have about 1" from my fan clutch to the radiator. This gives just enough room to get the fan and clutch off easily. I bent some steel sheet up and built a 2 piece shroud to make getting at stuff easy that works well also. I had a body lift and after removing it and doing the SOA my motor just clears and the AA mounts are welded about 1/2" to 3/4" below the frame rail. I cold have went a little lower but with this setup I actually run the stock manifolds off the 93 motor I got. Going lower would give you a little more wiggle room with the transfer case.

You could go farther forward if you use electric fans but I would highly discourage doing that. I live in AZ and honestly in a cruiser electric fans and a/c just don't do the job like a mechanical over 105 degrees. Of the three swaps I know of personally the 2 that went electric have both switched back to mechanical to solve cooling issues. The big name radiator builders here also recommend the same.

 

[Off Duty]

Do you happen to have pics of the interior?
Would like to see the placement and look of the BM shifter.

 

[brokenparts]

I would buy a harness personally. Just one less headache to deal with. The other advantage of new is that you can be sure that you aren't getting someone else's shorts and electrical problems.

 

[bridges]

Thanks all, added the harness to the parts list.

 

[Elbert]

Kurtis,

Sent you a PM... I'm wondering about your auto trans setup.

4L60E / 7004R ?
2wd or 4wd version?
Issues with shift points?
source of trans?
AA adapter from trans to transfer case?
Stock type torque converter?
shifter?
wire harness engine/trans harness?
what if any issues.

I'm pondering a change..potentially.

 

[bridges]

Elbert, I know you're asking Kurtis, but I've been researching and will throw some info in.

I picked mine up attached to the engine I plan to swap in, 350TBI and 700r out of a 1992 3/4 ton suburban. Mine was from a 2wd suburban, from what I've read you want to look for one out of a 4wd to get the thicker "k" case (as in k1500 pickup or suburban designating it 4wd).

My 60 is 90 percent daily driver, 8 percent mild trails to camping, 2 percent harder wheeling so I'm not that worried about not having the K case.

Advance adapters is the one I'm going with. LINK

I'm also planning on using the lokar shifter simply because I've never seen anyone mention having issues and I like the way it'll look in a 60.

The other questions I'll leave to those with existing experience as I'm just planning my swap and gathering parts. I couldn't pass up the deal I got for mine, both engine and trans were rebuilt 50K back and the price was right.

 

[ntsqd]

The main reason that you want the K case is because of the cast aluminum bolt-on converter cover as opposed to the sheet metal cover held on with sheet metal screws that is used on the passenger car cases. In and of itself the cast cover doesn't do much for you. What you also want are the two plates that go behind the front engine mounts (sandwiched btwn the block and the mount) and the two struts that bolt between btwn those plates and the bottom of the cast cover.
GM also uses a third strut that runs from the t/c at the extreme-most right side of the casting up to the second from the bottom right side bell housing bolt. Installing this strut is a PITA, BUT it is an important piece. It is what keeps the trans case from breaking off *just* forward of the tailshaft housing gasket flange. This is the smallest and weakest part of the whole trans case.
As penny-pinching as GM is you gotta figure that some Engineer concluded that these were needed for 4WD applications, but he had a good enough reason to need them that a cost accountant signed off on them.

 

[Elbert]

The main reason that you want the K case is because of the cast aluminum bolt-on converter cover as opposed to the sheet metal cover held on with sheet metal screws that is used on the passenger car cases. In and of itself the cast cover doesn't do much for you. What you also want are the two plates that go behind the front engine mounts (sandwiched btwn the block and the mount) and the two struts that bolt between btwn those plates and the bottom of the cast cover.
GM also uses a third strut that runs from the t/c at the extreme-most right side of the casting up to the second from the bottom right side bell housing bolt. Installing this strut is a PITA, BUT it is an important piece. It is what keeps the trans case from breaking off *just* forward of the tailshaft housing gasket flange. This is the smallest and weakest part of the whole trans case.
As penny-pinching as GM is you gotta figure that some Engineer concluded that these were needed for 4WD applications, but he had a good enough reason to need them that a cost accountant signed off on them.

If I do go automatic I'll be running either the 4L60E or 4l80E.

Do you have any pictures of these braces you are referring to and do they only apply to the 7004R. I have a 92K1500 with 7004r and the case did crack back on the rear driver's side. On the 92 all I recall for mounts is the mount at the end of the trans? What year trucks do these extra mounts come on?

I have a 07 25000 with auto trans and I don't think it has any of these extra braces....any idea why...better design or?

 

[ntsqd]

Beyond, more or less, Gen I engines I don't have much familiarity. I do not recall the LS1/4L60E that I helped put in a YJ having those braces or the place to attach those braces to, but I would suggest looking into it further as that wasn't part of what I was involved with.
In the 700 'K' case's there is a really obvious "K" cast into the bellhousing area. These are found only in the K and (I *think*) the R (could be the V's) models of trucks - only the four wheel drive models.

I do not yet have them installed in my FJ, so I don't think that I have any pictures of them. If you're stuck I can take some of them in a day or two.