Synthetic vs Traditional cable

[M32H32is]

Ok,

I went to a 4 day mudding event at an offroad park called muddy gras last weekend. Essentially a couple thousand rednecks on 4 wheelers, side x sides & 4x4 play in some nasty clay & mud for the weekend.

During that time we buried my boys Polaris ranger so bad a full size chevy had to yank him out. Mud was over the floor boards. It was BURIED!

Anyway, he snapped his synthetic line trying to winch out & we broke 2 more synthetic cables attempting to pull him out. All of them were on side x sides - I don't know the cable thickness or brand.

Needless to say, I'm a little wary of running synthetic on my Cruiser now.

What's the concensus on this?

 

[M32H32is]

And yes, I will do more mudding then rock crawling - strictly due to the geography of our gulf coast region. Tons of mud, a little sand & 0 rocks.

 

[Mark W]

Use undamaged cable that has an appropriate strength for your winch and don't rig or route it in such a way as to inflict damage to it while you are using it.

Whether the cable is steel or synthetic does not change these concerns.


Mark...

 

[cruiserpilot]

Were you winching or 'yanking' the sxs out? I get the feeling you were not winching out as much as using a much larger vehicle to pull the stuck sxs, and exceeded the structural strength of the line.

 

[Frankencruiser]

Just be glad you didn't "yank" using wire rope. People get killed that way.

 

[Tapage]

IMHO it's just about how much more care you need for a synthetic line compared to traditional cable ..

 

[onlyonedr]

The small winches on UTVs do not use winch rope the same diameter as we use on trucks. It is common to have 1/4" rope on those, whereas 5/16" or 3/8" is typical on truck winches. The breaking strength goes up considerably with diameter.

Also, you need to consider how the rope was taken care of and what condition it was in beforehand. If it is left out in the sun then it will weaken. Any cut strands will weaken it. Shock-loading as stated above it also bad for it. I have a feeling that all those and other factors were at play with what you saw there.

 

[Southeast Overland]

Synthetic line is typically stronger than steel of the same diameter.

Neither should be dynamically/shock loaded.

What was the diameter of the line that broke? Did you try to winch out without prep (clearing wheels if needed)?

Also beware cheap synthetic line. I've repaired some and scrapped some cheap line that has been sent in for repair. I kept a few pieces to use for examples - one where two pulls made the line look like it had been used for years.

Also in addition to diameter you need to know what type of synthetic line it is. In the truck world some budget synthetic line companies sell Dyneema Sk60 instead of 75. 60 has to be much thicker than 75 to be as strong, but these companies can sell a line for cheaper if it is the lower grade 60 but has the diameter of a 75 - that is it is weaker but consumers have heard "buy 3/8" synthetic line." Consumers buy 3/8" but it is the lower grade Dyneema Sk60 and therefore weaker and breaks. Seen that a few times.

 

[CardinalFJ60]

minor hijack-synthetic life expectency?

dove-tailing onto this thread...how long could I expect my synth line to last?

I rarely use the winch
It's been spooled on the drum for at least a 1.5 years without being used
the line itself has been on there since purchased...prolly 5+ years ago and maybe used 3 times, and visually looks great (just a little dirty)

Is there a "shelf-life"? the truck is garaged like 50% of the time.

 

[Southeast Overland]

dove-tailing onto this thread...how long could I expect my synth line to last? I rarely use the winch It's been spooled on the drum for at least a 1.5 years without being used the line itself has been on there since purchased...prolly 5+ years ago and maybe used 3 times, and visually looks great (just a little dirty) Is there a "shelf-life"? the truck is garaged like 50% of the time.

Depends on the quality of the line. Good stuff (Samson Amsteel Blue and equivalent) has a quality UV coating. If it isn't used (abraded) and isn't exposed to super stupid amounts of UV the outside life is pretty darn long. Without seeing yours Id guess it is good. On Amsteel Blue the UV protectant is in with the color so the more color left on your line the more UV protectant.

 

[M32H32is]

I know for a fact the line was less than a month old, we mounted it ourselves after our last outing. It snapped under direct load the first use. We did, however wrap it around a pine tree bc he didn't have a tree saver. Maybe that caused small abrasions in the fibers?

The second one that snapped I cannot speak for age wise, but it was "yanked" using a samurai. Perhaps that caused the failure?

We did not clear any of the mud, that wasn't an option. It was a huge pit.

I suggested a strap be used during the jerk attempt.

The full size didn't have to jerk, it made quick work of the recover but I believe torque and weight played a factor.

 

[Southeast Overland]

I know for a fact the line was less than a month old, we mounted it ourselves after our last outing. It snapped under direct load the first use. We did, however wrap it around a pine tree bc he didn't have a tree saver. Maybe that caused small abrasions in the fibers? The second one that snapped I cannot speak for age wise, but it was "yanked" using a samurai. Perhaps that caused the failure? We did not clear any of the mud, that wasn't an option. It was a huge pit. I suggested a strap be used during the jerk attempt. The full size didn't have to jerk, it made quick work of the recover but I believe torque and weight played a factor.

Any line, including synthetic, should be attached to a tree with a strap for the good of the tree and line.

Not cable not synthetic should ever be dynamically loaded. It is bad for the line and the winch.

Winches pull, snatch straps and kinetic ropes snatch.

Do you know how much did the stuck vehicle weighed, how stuck was it (how deep = mire factor), the rating of the winch, and what was the diameter and grade of your synthetic line? That will help me tell you what might have gone wrong.

Thanks!

 

[shelfboy1]

when i buried my honda last summer up to the racks it took 2 3,000 lb winches to get it out ,the second time in the same hole i used the 10,000 lb winch on my pickup .im old so no synthetic rope for me but either way you use the rope for winching and not for yanking almost always something will break .i winched a neighbor out last summer who stuck his atv in a spring and it drug my pickup with its 10,000 winch and brakes locked forward .it takes a lot of force to unstick an atv sometimes ,i have a front and rear 3,000 lb winch on my honda because its simply easier to go out backwards some times .

 

[M32H32is]

Any line, including synthetic, should be attached to a tree with a strap for the good of the tree and line.

Not cable not synthetic should ever be dynamically loaded. It is bad for the line and the winch.

Winches pull, snatch straps and kinetic ropes snatch.

Do you know how much did the stuck vehicle weighed, how stuck was it (how deep = mire factor), the rating of the winch, and what was the diameter and grade of your synthetic line? That will help me tell you what might have gone wrong.

Thanks!

Dry weight of the Ranger is 1,600 pounds & that's before lift & tires, speaker system, and a bigass cooler. Maybe 1800 pounds?

Thick a$$ red clay. Prob multiplies the weight 3x or 4x

 

[45Kevin]

We did, however wrap it around a pine tree bc he didn't have a tree saver.

I am surprised that this is acceptable in an OHV park. Or perhaps it's not.

Is it typical that ATVs and UTVs don't carry a tree saver?

 

[Southeast Overland]

Dry weight of the Ranger is 1,600 pounds & that's before lift & tires, speaker system, and a bigass cooler. Maybe 1800 pounds? Thick a$$ red clay. Prob multiplies the weight 3x or 4x

Do you know the diameter and grade of the line, and what the winch was rated for?

 

[CardinalFJ60]

Depends on the quality of the line. Good stuff (Samson Amsteel Blue and equivalent) has a quality UV coating. If it isn't used (abraded) and isn't exposed to super stupid amounts of UV the outside life is pretty darn long. Without seeing yours Id guess it is good. On Amsteel Blue the UV protectant is in with the color so the more color left on your line the more UV protectant.

GREAT info, THANKS! I'll take a close look tomorrow. IIRC, it has faded a bit...hmmm. It is the Amsteel Blue.

 

[itbrokeagain]

I am surprised that this is acceptable in an OHV park. Or perhaps it's not.

Is it typical that ATVs and UTVs don't carry a tree saver?

My guess is most of those guys dont know what a snatch block, d ring, or tree saver are

 

[Southeast Overland]

GREAT info, THANKS! I'll take a close look tomorrow. IIRC, it has faded a bit...hmmm. It is the Amsteel Blue.

Shoot me some pics at Sales@SoutheastOverland.com and I'll see if I can tell you something about the shape. Holding it is the best way for me to evaluate it - but I can tell you a little.

Thanks!