- Thread starter
- #41
Okay, so I looked into the GIIRO bushings that come in these arms and they look really damn cool. Might have to consider these, depending on the ball joint availability. Thanks!
Suspension planning... Looking for GX experience with mid-to-higher end products (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Mr Chuck Norris
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Okay, so I looked into the GIIRO bushings that come in these arms and they look really damn cool. Might have to consider these, depending on the ball joint availability. Thanks!
- Thread starter
- #42
So update on the OME arms...
I spoke to ARB USA, as well as Toytec, as well as did more research. OME uses a Chinese ball joint that is a direct replacement for the OEM Toyota UCA ball joint. Which means that these arms will NOT support any more travel than the stock UCAs, and the ball joint is no stronger than the standard Chinese stock replacement that it is, just with a zerk added. The ball joints are replaceable with any OEM replacement ball joint that would fit a stock Toyota UCA so ARB doesn't stock any spares at this time. Also, ARB doesn't stock any replacement bushings and has no timeframe of when they might start doing so.
Basically... Hard pass on these.
I'm leaning towards the tried and true Total Chaos uniball UCAs, and just deal with replacing the uniballs every couple years if needed which is quick and easy. Plus, made in America is always nice as opposed to China if I have the choice of where my dollars end up.
I spoke to ARB USA, as well as Toytec, as well as did more research. OME uses a Chinese ball joint that is a direct replacement for the OEM Toyota UCA ball joint. Which means that these arms will NOT support any more travel than the stock UCAs, and the ball joint is no stronger than the standard Chinese stock replacement that it is, just with a zerk added. The ball joints are replaceable with any OEM replacement ball joint that would fit a stock Toyota UCA so ARB doesn't stock any spares at this time. Also, ARB doesn't stock any replacement bushings and has no timeframe of when they might start doing so.
Basically... Hard pass on these.
I'm leaning towards the tried and true Total Chaos uniball UCAs, and just deal with replacing the uniballs every couple years if needed which is quick and easy. Plus, made in America is always nice as opposed to China if I have the choice of where my dollars end up.
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- Thread starter
- #43
Also, from my Toytec discussion:
Boss Aluma 2.5 kits are pretty much sold out 100%, with more expected to arrive from Elka next month-ish. The 700lb spring rate works fine with a completely stock weight truck to give 2" of lift which is where I'll be, plus sliders and maybe skid plates. I'm a big fan of minimal preload on springs so that should work well, as opposed to cranking more preload on a lighter spring. Rebuild parts are common and stocked at a partner shock shop in Denver as they're not currently rebuilding in house.
They have seen minimal issues with uniball wear on the Total Chaos arms with the newer stainless balls as long as they are kept clean and lubed.
Long story short... Boss Aluma 2.5 and Total Chaos arms are currently the #1 choice.
Boss Aluma 2.5 kits are pretty much sold out 100%, with more expected to arrive from Elka next month-ish. The 700lb spring rate works fine with a completely stock weight truck to give 2" of lift which is where I'll be, plus sliders and maybe skid plates. I'm a big fan of minimal preload on springs so that should work well, as opposed to cranking more preload on a lighter spring. Rebuild parts are common and stocked at a partner shock shop in Denver as they're not currently rebuilding in house.
They have seen minimal issues with uniball wear on the Total Chaos arms with the newer stainless balls as long as they are kept clean and lubed.
Long story short... Boss Aluma 2.5 and Total Chaos arms are currently the #1 choice.
- Thread starter
- #44
But then again...
Metaltech's most expensive Radflo kit has rear links included, and is effectively the same price as the Toytec. And I'll already be getting sliders and maybe skids there.
Metaltech's most expensive Radflo kit has rear links included, and is effectively the same price as the Toytec. And I'll already be getting sliders and maybe skids there.
The thing about Toyota stock ball joints is that they can be gotten anywhere. Easy access to replacement parts can be a big plus.
Remember that with most "extended travel" UCA you are only getting about 1/2" of extra drop. I have had uni-balls in the past and will NEVER do it again nothing but a nightmare to maintain. This might be dependent on where you live but I would not recommend running them in a wet area. I used tai-flow every month on mine and they still failed in a year.
Also with the OME they do run the indestructible GIIRO bushings.
@Mr Chuck Norris I totally agree on the spring rate. Too many are running 650lb springs and then have too much preload. I like the 700lb spring and backing off the preload. This will also lead to greater reliability in the long run.
Blackhawk UCA that are some of the most expensive steel UCA use OEM ball joint. They socket are welded at different angle to accommodate more droop.
Higher angle ball joint does not automatically means stronger. Many times they have to make the neck part narrower or socket part with less lip to be able to accommodate more angle.
Higher angle ball joint does not automatically means stronger. Many times they have to make the neck part narrower or socket part with less lip to be able to accommodate more angle.
- Thread starter
- #48
I have maxed out stock upper ball joints with small top plate spacer lifts in the past, they really don't have much additional range of motion to work with. Top plate spacers and longer coilovers do the same thing in this regard by allowing more droop.
Considering GIIRO bushings are proprietary with no common replacements available, and have only been around for a year or so, I would err towards regular poly bushings at this time. They work very well and are easy to maintain.
Did you have the newer Total Chaos stainless uniballs? Those are supposed to be much better for wet weather wear.
True, a modified stock design ball joint will probably be weaker than an OEM Toyota ball joint.
I wasn't aware of the Blackhawk arms, using an OEM joint at a different angle is a nice approach for people who want corrected lift geometry but still want to retain OEM ball joints and bushings with their comfortable NVH. Looks like a good product.
- Thread starter
- #49
Slight update that won't change a lot, but maybe a bit.
We had been planning a remodel, but it looks more and more like we may buy another house sooner rather than later. Also... I kind of want a beater pickup for towing and hauling. Both cost $$$.
So for the GX, I think I'll keep the tires I have now and go back to the stock wheels which I will paint. Sell the Method wheels. Then I won't need to regear.
This brings me to a spring height dilemma...
The suspension is currently +1" front and stock height rear. With the 32's on it, I don't really want to go taller than +2" front and +1" rear. I may still go for a Toytec superflex 2" spring, and load the rear a bit to bring it down. Who knows.
All I know is that I still want some good shocks. I was rallying up some roads this past weekend following @CreeperSleeper in his DGAF Ford and the GX wasn't feeling great.
We had been planning a remodel, but it looks more and more like we may buy another house sooner rather than later. Also... I kind of want a beater pickup for towing and hauling. Both cost $$$.
So for the GX, I think I'll keep the tires I have now and go back to the stock wheels which I will paint. Sell the Method wheels. Then I won't need to regear.
This brings me to a spring height dilemma...
The suspension is currently +1" front and stock height rear. With the 32's on it, I don't really want to go taller than +2" front and +1" rear. I may still go for a Toytec superflex 2" spring, and load the rear a bit to bring it down. Who knows.
All I know is that I still want some good shocks. I was rallying up some roads this past weekend following @CreeperSleeper in his DGAF Ford and the GX wasn't feeling great.
If it makes you feel any better, the POS Ford didn't feel very good either...
- Thread starter
- #52
Yeah, kind of!
Made lots of phone calls and emails, did [probably too much] research, and priced out many options.
Trying to keep budget in mind, I had a full Bilstein setup priced out with SPC arms and then Whiteline bushings to rebuild the front and rear arms. It was sitting as a backup option but I wasn't really excited about it.
An awesome discussion with Mark at Metaltech sealed the deal for me and I'm going with the Radflo Stage 6 kit he sells. I'm also getting sliders and skid plates through his shop so I can just drive down and pick it all up at once.
I'm waiting to pull the trigger on parts until the end of this month. Gotta keep cash flow in mind as I'm trying to make a property purchase in the near future as well (bigger shop!).
- Thread starter
- #53
And I'm 90% set on 255/75r17 tires on my stock wheels. The Firestone Destination XT tires are intriguing - they are 32.1" tall, 40lb, and load range C in that size.
Those should still work with my stock 3.73 gearing better than a 255/80r17 which is 33.1" tall. Also less likely to need a body mount chop. My only concern is how well they will or won't fill the rear fenders, but I'll deal with that if it's an issue.
Those should still work with my stock 3.73 gearing better than a 255/80r17 which is 33.1" tall. Also less likely to need a body mount chop. My only concern is how well they will or won't fill the rear fenders, but I'll deal with that if it's an issue.
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- Thread starter
- #54
WELL......
In typical fashion of life being life, plans had to change a bit and it's all settled. My Tacoma project needs more parts to get dialed in, tax time wasn't as nice to me as planned, and we are still planning the property purchase *sometime* in the next few months. Which means something had to give in my overall budget.
The Bilstein setup was over $1500 cheaper, so the Radflo kit will have to wait quite a while.
But hey, once I get my Tacoma back on the trail the sacrifice will be more than worth it (or so I tell myself).
Plans are to get the armor in place and dial the suspension to 1.5" rear and 2" front, and then order the 255/75r17 tires to run on the OEM wheels with all new TPMS sensors. I'll probably start a build thread for it once I get to work on the suspension. Until then, I play the waiting game for shipping and a couple short lead time parts.
Current parts on hand for the GX are:
Whiteline LCA, panhard, and steering rack bushings
Nolathane rear control arm bushings
OEM outer TRE (I recently did the driver's side, so this is for the pass side)
Poly Performance Taco Tabs
Denso TPMS sensors x5
OEM GX Wheels
I have orders in for the following:
Bilstein 6112 front shocks with 650lb/in springs
KYB upper spring mounts - FJC spec as per Bilstein's instructions
Element Hard Parts 4130 uniball UCAs
Bilstein 5160 rear shocks
Bilstein FJC 1" rear lift springs (plus the 0.5" FJC-to-GX difference = 1.5" lift)
Icon coil conversion hardware
OEM Spring Isolator/cone bumps
Durobump bumpstops (I splurged a bit here)
Firestone airbags to run inside the rear springs, powered by the OEM air system for load levelling
Proforged LBJs and inner TREs
OEM inner TRE boots and clamps
0.75" BORA wheel spacers
OPOR Sliders
ARB skid plates
OPOR Lower Link Guards
And so, for the sake of this thread, I guess that's that. Thanks to everyone for the input and conversation!
In typical fashion of life being life, plans had to change a bit and it's all settled. My Tacoma project needs more parts to get dialed in, tax time wasn't as nice to me as planned, and we are still planning the property purchase *sometime* in the next few months. Which means something had to give in my overall budget.
The Bilstein setup was over $1500 cheaper, so the Radflo kit will have to wait quite a while.
But hey, once I get my Tacoma back on the trail the sacrifice will be more than worth it (or so I tell myself).
Plans are to get the armor in place and dial the suspension to 1.5" rear and 2" front, and then order the 255/75r17 tires to run on the OEM wheels with all new TPMS sensors. I'll probably start a build thread for it once I get to work on the suspension. Until then, I play the waiting game for shipping and a couple short lead time parts.
Current parts on hand for the GX are:
Whiteline LCA, panhard, and steering rack bushings
Nolathane rear control arm bushings
OEM outer TRE (I recently did the driver's side, so this is for the pass side)
Poly Performance Taco Tabs
Denso TPMS sensors x5
OEM GX Wheels
I have orders in for the following:
Bilstein 6112 front shocks with 650lb/in springs
KYB upper spring mounts - FJC spec as per Bilstein's instructions
Element Hard Parts 4130 uniball UCAs
Bilstein 5160 rear shocks
Bilstein FJC 1" rear lift springs (plus the 0.5" FJC-to-GX difference = 1.5" lift)
Icon coil conversion hardware
OEM Spring Isolator/cone bumps
Durobump bumpstops (I splurged a bit here)
Firestone airbags to run inside the rear springs, powered by the OEM air system for load levelling
Proforged LBJs and inner TREs
OEM inner TRE boots and clamps
0.75" BORA wheel spacers
OPOR Sliders
ARB skid plates
OPOR Lower Link Guards
And so, for the sake of this thread, I guess that's that. Thanks to everyone for the input and conversation!
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- Thread starter
- #55
SO... There's a reason why I haven't posted more updates. It turns out Bilstein themselves are super backordered on the 6112s so I've been waiting up until this week.
And then in another thread, I just learned that the 47-284142 6112s include 700lb/in springs and not the 650lb/in springs that were advertised (I also called Bilstein to confirm) and that I need for my stock front bumper/no winch.
So I gave up waiting and I'm switching to basic Icon 58645 & 56505 suspension. The vendor is working with me to ship back my rear 5160s and front KYB top hats and I'm paying the difference to upgrade.
While the wait and then the spring rate issue has been a PITA the vendor is coming through to make it right. I'm actually a little excited to try Icon stuff too so I'll update once something new happens.
And then in another thread, I just learned that the 47-284142 6112s include 700lb/in springs and not the 650lb/in springs that were advertised (I also called Bilstein to confirm) and that I need for my stock front bumper/no winch.
So I gave up waiting and I'm switching to basic Icon 58645 & 56505 suspension. The vendor is working with me to ship back my rear 5160s and front KYB top hats and I'm paying the difference to upgrade.
While the wait and then the spring rate issue has been a PITA the vendor is coming through to make it right. I'm actually a little excited to try Icon stuff too so I'll update once something new happens.
Wow. There are so many things back ordered. IKEA and Home Depot don’t have full stock anymore. I’ve had delays in building an ADU due to items not in stock.
Back to shocks, I have icons 56550 in the rear and the only thing I dread is when it’s time to rebuild them. By then, It’s gonna cost me a pretty penny like $200 and a few weeks of down time.
That’s the beauty of the Bilsteins...no rebuild needed. My 6112s up front are 40k miles and 4+ years old and looking good so far.
Back to shocks, I have icons 56550 in the rear and the only thing I dread is when it’s time to rebuild them. By then, It’s gonna cost me a pretty penny like $200 and a few weeks of down time.
That’s the beauty of the Bilsteins...no rebuild needed. My 6112s up front are 40k miles and 4+ years old and looking good so far.
- Thread starter
- #57
Yeah, it's a tough balance between rebuildable versus sealed shocks. In most cases the performance difference is noticable and the Icon suspension I've driven is definitely a step above sealed Bilstein. Even the performance of higher end rebuildable Bilstein (7100, etc) is a step above the sealed units (5100, etc). Better seals, better performing oil, better bushings/hardware.
Then there's the performance degradation over the lifespan of the shock. A lot of this depends on how and where you drive. Icon recommends 40k mile rebuilds for street use. At 40k, sealed Bilsteins will still feel good. Probably still decent at 80k. But by 120k they'll be toast.
Icon also recommends 15k mile rebuilds for dirt/street use. I can smoke a set of sealed Bilsteins in 30k if I'm pushing the truck, or 45k if I'm driving normally offroad. So that's one or two rebuilds on Icon.
So yeah, there is a cost difference to gain better performance. And once you make it through your first set of Bilsteins and have to buy another set, the rebuild costs are less of a factor as the Icons keep on working well. It's also not really that hard to DIY shock rebuilds if you don't want to ship them back to the mothership for service.
I have 7100s on my Tacoma for this reason. I was going the sealed Bilstein route on the GX for budget savings now, but we all know how well that worked out...
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just to stir up the sediment and promote moar discussion (while respecting OP has decided on a direction). Mirroring a previous post here (or maybe elsewhere)... Can we talk some of the pros and cons of Dob's in here?
I'd still like to get some good discussion on twins vs monos (I alluded to that earlier). People talk of the bullet-proof nature of standard OMEs so much but they ride like a buckboard. Doesn't that speak to their durability, if even a basic twin tube? Wouldn't you say OME, IM nitro, and basic Yellow Dobinson's are kinda all the same? Maybe OME gets the bad rep cuz the soft twins can't slow the stiffer springs as much..? Does IM's FCP beefy twintube with the foam cell (vs nitro charge) handle the higher spring rates better than basic twins? Word is the FCP rides better than the basic IM nitro.. Could we say IM FCP steps up that set-up to an upper tier intro lift.
But I'd like to throw in the Dob's mono adjustable remotes for conversations' sake. Build quality looks to be there, adjustable is rad, but size mirrors more of an entry set-up. So would we consider these a high-end basic or tier 2? would the dobs Mono Remote adjustable (MRA) be like an inro icon or OME BP51?
I have to say I like the idea of a 2.5+ front coilover (many listed before), but the variability and milder lift option in the MRA are appealing to me at least. (KDSS, so >2" is troublesome.... but new things coming out that I think challenge that...
ironman4x4america.com
I'd still like to get some good discussion on twins vs monos (I alluded to that earlier). People talk of the bullet-proof nature of standard OMEs so much but they ride like a buckboard. Doesn't that speak to their durability, if even a basic twin tube? Wouldn't you say OME, IM nitro, and basic Yellow Dobinson's are kinda all the same? Maybe OME gets the bad rep cuz the soft twins can't slow the stiffer springs as much..? Does IM's FCP beefy twintube with the foam cell (vs nitro charge) handle the higher spring rates better than basic twins? Word is the FCP rides better than the basic IM nitro.. Could we say IM FCP steps up that set-up to an upper tier intro lift.
But I'd like to throw in the Dob's mono adjustable remotes for conversations' sake. Build quality looks to be there, adjustable is rad, but size mirrors more of an entry set-up. So would we consider these a high-end basic or tier 2? would the dobs Mono Remote adjustable (MRA) be like an inro icon or OME BP51?
I have to say I like the idea of a 2.5+ front coilover (many listed before), but the variability and milder lift option in the MRA are appealing to me at least. (KDSS, so >2" is troublesome.... but new things coming out that I think challenge that...
KDSS Spacer Kit
If you’re lifted, and have wheeled, you have undoubtedly encountered some kdss lean. In the 6 years of working with my 2005 GX470 sport with kdss,...
www.treatyoakoffroad.com
KDSS Compatible Adjustable Rear Panhard Bar Kit - Suits Lexus GX470/GX460 and 2010+ Toyota 4Runner
Ironman 4x4 America offers off-road parts, accessories, and equipment for the off-roading enthusiast. Check out our website for more information.
ironman4x4america.com
Funny thing, my DS 56505 puked two weeks ago after 40k. I called my local shop for rebuilds, but they were out of the rebuild kits. Normally, cost to rebuilt includes removal fee ($100 a corner?) + rebuild fee ($100 each?) . I ended up buying a pair new from Off Road Warehouse for $160 ea. and getting my Youtube suspension degree to install it in the garage.
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- Thread starter
- #60
just to stir up the sediment and promote moar discussion (while respecting OP has decided on a direction). Mirroring a previous post here (or maybe elsewhere)... Can we talk some of the pros and cons of Dob's in here?
I'd still like to get some good discussion on twins vs monos (I alluded to that earlier). People talk of the bullet-proof nature of standard OMEs so much but they ride like a buckboard. Doesn't that speak to their durability, if even a basic twin tube? Wouldn't you say OME, IM nitro, and basic Yellow Dobinson's are kinda all the same? Maybe OME gets the bad rep cuz the soft twins can't slow the stiffer springs as much..? Does IM's FCP beefy twintube with the foam cell (vs nitro charge) handle the higher spring rates better than basic twins? Word is the FCP rides better than the basic IM nitro.. Could we say IM FCP steps up that set-up to an upper tier intro lift.
But I'd like to throw in the Dob's mono adjustable remotes for conversations' sake. Build quality looks to be there, adjustable is rad, but size mirrors more of an entry set-up. So would we consider these a high-end basic or tier 2? would the dobs Mono Remote adjustable (MRA) be like an inro icon or OME BP51?
I have to say I like the idea of a 2.5+ front coilover (many listed before), but the variability and milder lift option in the MRA are appealing to me at least. (KDSS, so >2" is troublesome.... but new things coming out that I think challenge that...
KDSS Spacer Kit
If you’re lifted, and have wheeled, you have undoubtedly encountered some kdss lean. In the 6 years of working with my 2005 GX470 sport with kdss,...www.treatyoakoffroad.comKDSS Compatible Adjustable Rear Panhard Bar Kit - Suits Lexus GX470/GX460 and 2010+ Toyota 4Runner
Ironman 4x4 America offers off-road parts, accessories, and equipment for the off-roading enthusiast. Check out our website for more information.
I'm always a fan of tangents in forum threads as it's the natural course of conversation!
I dug quite deeply into Dobinson and Ironman suspension as the Dobinson product is online for decent prices, and Ironman product is effectively "always on sale" for a substantial discount.
My $0.02...
Ironman is effectively a cheap version of OME for their lower end products, and their Foam Cell products are trying to be midrange without the midrange features. Made in China shocks rarely work out well in general.
Dobinson is in a similar situation with cheaper Chinese shocks, though their products have some nice features and seem to hold up halfway decent. These may be an acceptable compromise between budget and features for most users.
I agree that most OME shocks are valved very stiff. They are designed to be durable under heavy use with heavy loads, and hit a moderate price point.
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