OME BP-51....
Suspension planning... Looking for GX experience with mid-to-higher end products
- Thread starter Mr Chuck Norris
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- Thread starter
- #22
"Designed and tested in Australia"... And made in China.
No thanks, see my previous comments about motorsports use as well as my thoughts on Dobinsons MRR. They all apply to these shocks too.
I know I'm probably being picky here, and could probably get away with an Eibach or Bilstein kit and smoke the shocks after 30k or 40k miles, but I don't want to go down the disposable shock route at this time. I want to go for something that I can rebuild which means common parts availability, and that means a brand with standard sizes seals/o-rings/shims/parts that are commonly available. Aka the motorsports brands.
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At the risk of being ostracized here, I am able to comment on the Elka suspension and the basic Dobinsons suspension for the gx470.
I bought the Elka front and rear RR set ups from toytec in Denver. They installed it too. After getting a test ride in the owners 4runner with the elkas. I had two GX’s and the other got a basic Dobinsons lift. And I could be wrong but I’m
Pretty sure the basic Dobinsons are made in Australia. Not the mrr though....also that when I bought at toytec, the Boss was rebranded radflo—not elka. Maybe that’s changed too.
I ended up doing the fj summit, Moab, and a huge chunk of Death Valley on the Elkas before I had to sell that rig. Now I’m riding the Dobinsons and have taken it to silverton and I’m back in Death Valley running trails. I’m not sure how this all adds up and everything is subjective with this stuff but I can honestly say that I think the basic Dobinsons set up gives me a nicer ride.
I just read your desire for the re build able option and I like that too but after my experience I’m not sure what my next suspension set up will be.
I bought the Elka front and rear RR set ups from toytec in Denver. They installed it too. After getting a test ride in the owners 4runner with the elkas. I had two GX’s and the other got a basic Dobinsons lift. And I could be wrong but I’m
Pretty sure the basic Dobinsons are made in Australia. Not the mrr though....also that when I bought at toytec, the Boss was rebranded radflo—not elka. Maybe that’s changed too.
I ended up doing the fj summit, Moab, and a huge chunk of Death Valley on the Elkas before I had to sell that rig. Now I’m riding the Dobinsons and have taken it to silverton and I’m back in Death Valley running trails. I’m not sure how this all adds up and everything is subjective with this stuff but I can honestly say that I think the basic Dobinsons set up gives me a nicer ride.
I just read your desire for the re build able option and I like that too but after my experience I’m not sure what my next suspension set up will be.
The old Toytec were made by Radflo the new ones are made by Elka. I think everyone agrees that the Dobinsons basic nitro is a great riding shock. But it is not adjustable and rebuildable. I was really torn between the Toytec Aluma 2.0 (Elka shock/Toytec spring) vs the Dobs in the end the adjustability and that they are all aluminum pushed me to the Toytec Aluma. I haven't installed them yet but will let you all know my thoughts. I can compare them to my past experience with Bilstein and OME.
- Thread starter
- #25
I appreciate all input of suspension on the GX 120 chassis, our rigs are different enough from 4runners but not as commonly built.
I'm definitely a fan of Elka suspension, they are well known and seen mostly in the ATV/powersports world. And yeah, the new Toytec Boss is made by Elka and no longer Radflo - this change happened a few years ago IIRC. I am definitely considering the Boss Aluma 2.5 setup, though the full Elka kit they offer would probably end up costing more than I want to spend (and would probably be overkill IMO).
I have heard good things about Dobinsons basic shocks, they seem to be a smoother version of OME Nitrochargers. None of their shocks are made in Australia, only their coil springs.
I'm chiming from investigation and assessment but not experience.
I appreciate the value of motorsports brands and their background of R&D, and field testing but argue how they're tuning and maintenance translates to DD and our end-user use of these vehicles vs. quality aftermarket (ergo better performance and probable longevity than OE) for durability and longevity. Some aftermarket are rebuildable as well...
RE: IM, it's my understanding their nitro is probably comparable to Dobs in comfort and performance, thus softer and more compliant than OME, but also built to last for light-moderate use and daily driving quality. IM had a foam cell line (which i never knew specs of and for), which seemed a little better than nitro on paper but failed in field use (cavitation?), the marketed threat of twin tube Bilstein will warn you about (so there's the twin tube vs mono tube discussion, and there's the digressive vs. progressive conversation).... but i've never read dobs or OME people complain of shock fade/fail, just bullet-proof LONG lasting OME being rough-riding...
Also IM's FCP seems the beefier graduated fix to the weakness of the aforementioned foam cell. More oil, larger bore, higher volume, more cooling, burlier walls with the foam cell layer rather than a light nitrogen charge like the nitro (Dobs standard and one) I understand the FCP rides lighter and more compliant than their nitro kit in DD, but also performs better off road. the marketing of IM as military use is props for durability and longevity. And they're rebuildable (IM AUS has videos, it seems simple too).
While pay-to-play is legit, I get that, but paying into the plural thousands for a setup that needs downtime and rebuilds about annually (Icon @ 15K) seems more high maint and high-tune than a DD and non-competitive use vehicle needs. I get the bling (well get that some want the top brands even if they don't USE them) and ride quality desires, but that's a long-term co$t making the value dramitcally le$$ than their initial higher price onset offers to begin with, in mine eyes. BUT when they're going, they're on and superior to lower grade setups (i guess)....
I'm also interested in Dobs MRR and their new tuneable setups (I forget their initials, IRR? IRS? FBI? WTF?
). I like that Dobs has a variable rate (or is it twin single rate) rear spring, but don't like that it affords 3" lift. i too would like a 2" all around (and like I said have been leaning towards IM FCP, which is more like 2.5-3") but am not super stoked at those offerings (bils, maybe dobs but their not front ride hight adjustable 
), haven't looked at eibach, some of toytec is rebranded eibachs or bils, and interesting to hear the BOSS is ELKA)...
So (and I know there are a million threads and some are concise and some are thready), but what are your experiences, understandings, opinions, and takes on these variables:
twin tube vs. mono tube vs. mono tube RR
digressive vs progressive valving
customizing shim packs per your own knowledge-base vs. how they come (especially in the higher ends like FOX and Icon)...
UCAs and the various offerings there... What makes the OME's UCA tops (I think someone mentioned that)?
I like the info in this thread and want to understand the deets behind the expereinces a little more... You pose good questions and seem to be leaning on the side of higher end b/c quality and proven company/history but I also argue that some of those may be too much (given initial outlay plus continual maintenence) when there ARE good moderate options that give performance through time.
I'd second the argument for rubber bushings vs. poly but it sounds like your experience is speaking there driving that decision for personal wants from an end-product and knowledge of the measures that decision brings...
I appreciate the value of motorsports brands and their background of R&D, and field testing but argue how they're tuning and maintenance translates to DD and our end-user use of these vehicles vs. quality aftermarket (ergo better performance and probable longevity than OE) for durability and longevity. Some aftermarket are rebuildable as well...
RE: IM, it's my understanding their nitro is probably comparable to Dobs in comfort and performance, thus softer and more compliant than OME, but also built to last for light-moderate use and daily driving quality. IM had a foam cell line (which i never knew specs of and for), which seemed a little better than nitro on paper but failed in field use (cavitation?), the marketed threat of twin tube Bilstein will warn you about (so there's the twin tube vs mono tube discussion, and there's the digressive vs. progressive conversation).... but i've never read dobs or OME people complain of shock fade/fail, just bullet-proof LONG lasting OME being rough-riding...
Also IM's FCP seems the beefier graduated fix to the weakness of the aforementioned foam cell. More oil, larger bore, higher volume, more cooling, burlier walls with the foam cell layer rather than a light nitrogen charge like the nitro (Dobs standard and one) I understand the FCP rides lighter and more compliant than their nitro kit in DD, but also performs better off road. the marketing of IM as military use is props for durability and longevity. And they're rebuildable (IM AUS has videos, it seems simple too).
While pay-to-play is legit, I get that, but paying into the plural thousands for a setup that needs downtime and rebuilds about annually (Icon @ 15K) seems more high maint and high-tune than a DD and non-competitive use vehicle needs. I get the bling (well get that some want the top brands even if they don't USE them) and ride quality desires, but that's a long-term co$t making the value dramitcally le$$ than their initial higher price onset offers to begin with, in mine eyes. BUT when they're going, they're on and superior to lower grade setups (i guess)....
I'm also interested in Dobs MRR and their new tuneable setups (I forget their initials, IRR? IRS? FBI? WTF?
). I like that Dobs has a variable rate (or is it twin single rate) rear spring, but don't like that it affords 3" lift. i too would like a 2" all around (and like I said have been leaning towards IM FCP, which is more like 2.5-3") but am not super stoked at those offerings (bils, maybe dobs but their not front ride hight adjustable ), haven't looked at eibach, some of toytec is rebranded eibachs or bils, and interesting to hear the BOSS is ELKA)...So (and I know there are a million threads and some are concise and some are thready), but what are your experiences, understandings, opinions, and takes on these variables:
twin tube vs. mono tube vs. mono tube RR
digressive vs progressive valving
customizing shim packs per your own knowledge-base vs. how they come (especially in the higher ends like FOX and Icon)...
UCAs and the various offerings there... What makes the OME's UCA tops (I think someone mentioned that)?
I like the info in this thread and want to understand the deets behind the expereinces a little more... You pose good questions and seem to be leaning on the side of higher end b/c quality and proven company/history but I also argue that some of those may be too much (given initial outlay plus continual maintenence) when there ARE good moderate options that give performance through time.
I'd second the argument for rubber bushings vs. poly but it sounds like your experience is speaking there driving that decision for personal wants from an end-product and knowledge of the measures that decision brings...
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This is the crux of it I think. You have to really ask yourself what is important to you personally. Some people race and need racing suspension. Some just want racing suspension because it's freaking awesome (nothing wrong with that). Others just want to get 2" of more ground clearance (basically essential for any kind of moderate off-roading in these vehicles), while maintaining an OEM level of ride quality and maintenance requirements (which is to say, essentially zero). Personally, there's no way in hell I'm getting a suspension that I need to rebuild every year. I just don't need something like that. I'd rather worry about it 130k miles later after they're blown.
- Thread starter
- #28
I'm chiming from investigation and assessment but not experience.
I appreciate the value of motorsports brands and their background of R&D, and field testing but argue how they're tuning and maintenance translates to DD and our end-user use of these vehicles vs. quality aftermarket (ergo better performance and probable longevity than OE) for durability and longevity. Some aftermarket are rebuildable as well...
RE: IM, it's my understanding their nitro is probably comparable to Dobs in comfort and performance, thus softer and more compliant than OME, but also built to last for light-moderate use and daily driving quality. IM had a foam cell line (which i never knew specs of and for), which seemed a little better than nitro on paper but failed in field use (cavitation?), the marketed threat of twin tube Bilstein will warn you about (so there's the twin tube vs mono tube discussion, and there's the digressive vs. regressive conversation).... but i've never read dobs or OME people complain of shock fade/fail, just bullet-proof LONG lasting OME being rough-riding...
Also IM's FCP seems the beefier graduated fix tot the weakness of the aforementioned foam cell. More oil, larger bore, higher volume, more cooling, burlier walls with the gas infused in the foam cell layer rather than a light charge like the nitro. I understand the FCP rides lighter and more compliant than their nitro kit in DD, but also performs better off road. the marketing of IM as military use is props for durability and longevity. And their rebuildable (IM AUS has videos, it seems simple too).
While pay-to-play is legit, I get that, but paying into the plural thousands for a setup that needs downtime and rebuilds about annually (Icon @ 15K) seems more high maint and high-tune than a DD and non-competitive use vehicle needs. I get the bling (well get that some want the top brands even if they don't USE them) and ride quality desires, but that's a long-term co$t making the value dramitcally le$$ than their initial hagher price onset offers to begine with, in mine eyes. BUT when they're going, they're on and superior to lower grade setups (i guess)....
I'm also interested in Dobs MRR and their new tuneable setups (I forget their initials, IRR? IRS? FBI? WTF?
So (and I know there are a million threads and some are concise and some are thready), but what are your experiences, understandings, opinions, and takes on these variables:
twin tube vs. mono tube vs. mono tube RR
digressive vs progressive valving
customizing shim packs per your own knowledge-base vs. how they come (especially in the higher ends like FOX and Icon)...
UCAs and the various offerings there... What makes the OME's UCA tops (I think someone mentioned that)?
I like the info in this thread and want to understand the deets behind the expereinces a little more... You pose good questions and seem to be leaning on the side of higher end b/c quality and proven company/history but I also argue that some of those may be too much (given initial outlay plus continual maintenence) when there ARE good moderate options that give performance through time.
I'd second the argument for rubber bushings vs. poly but it sounds like your experience is speaking there driving that decision for personal wants from an end-product and knowledge of the measures that decision brings...
I love good technical discussions about actual use of truck parts, as opposed to just talking about manufacturer marketing wank or product highlight reviews/videos (aka more marketing wank).
For the average user who isn't planning to push their truck at speed, OME or Dobinsons are good options depending on load weight. From what I can tell, same with Ironman. I'm applying this trait to these brands pretty universally as their shocks, even up to their higher end models (BP-51, MRR, Foam Cell Pro) obviously aren't focused on speed, but instead are higher end products for lower speed and less aggressive driving.
Another bushing quirk I forgot to mention is the use of OEM style rubber bushings on lower control arms with lifted or extended travel suspension. The rotation of the arm is provided by the rubber flexing in the bushing, with the bushing inner and outer sleeves bonded together by the rubber. Once you routinely cycle that bushing through a different or longer range of motion, they seem to tear and get wobbly in short order. I have had this happen twice.
Poly bushings aren't bonded, and the inner sleeve rotates within the rubber which is why it can squeak if they get too dry or dirty. But they can rotate through 360° with no issues.
I'm with you, this is definitely a "horses for courses" discussion and use case scenario. Many truck enthusiasts want good road manners with low NVH and high comfort, and want their aftermarket parts to be simple bolt-on installs with few supporting mods required. The race suspension brands offer none of that, but instead offer so much more performance capabilities at the expense of refinement. I'm cool with that.
I also don't mind the need for bi-annual shock service. That's a casual Saturday afternoon in my garage and $100 in parts/fluids/nitrogen. Once you work on higher end suspension a few times it's not at all scary or complicated, at least for the good motorsports/powersports brands that are built to be easily serviceable.
The point of LCA articulation seems to often be overlooked when guys talk about bushing type. I went with poly bushings in my lowers because they can travel farther than OEM bushings without being damaged.
I have yet to rebuild my icons but plan to do the service when the time comes. To me, that's part of being familiar with your machine - being able to rebuild it.
I had Icons front and rear. 2.5" extended travel fronts and 2.0 long travel rears. I swapped the rears for radflo 2.5 adjustable RR long travel version. I'll be swappung the fronts for RR radflos too shortly. I considered the FCP and the MRR but felt like there wasn't enough sets with hard miles to have long term reviews. Metaltech is an hour away and John down there was able to chat with me about all my wants and wishes and recommended a good shock choice. He's given good advice in the past so I went with radflo and I'm glad I did.
I have yet to rebuild my icons but plan to do the service when the time comes. To me, that's part of being familiar with your machine - being able to rebuild it.
I had Icons front and rear. 2.5" extended travel fronts and 2.0 long travel rears. I swapped the rears for radflo 2.5 adjustable RR long travel version. I'll be swappung the fronts for RR radflos too shortly. I considered the FCP and the MRR but felt like there wasn't enough sets with hard miles to have long term reviews. Metaltech is an hour away and John down there was able to chat with me about all my wants and wishes and recommended a good shock choice. He's given good advice in the past so I went with radflo and I'm glad I did.
- Thread starter
- #30
The MetalTech crew has had good luck with Radflo, and others seem to like their suspension (you're about 15min south of me so you probably know the same people/rigs). When the time comes to pull the trigger on something I'll absolutely start a conversation with MetalTech. I would also love to support the local guys. And I'll probably end up with their sliders anyway, they're the best option IMO.
Not to fly too far off your suspension subject, but since you mentioned it, I picked up the OPOR sliders two years ago. Partly because I could have them in my hands same day but mostly because I like their design and like to support local businesses where I can. That said, I've been dragging these things over stumps, tree trunks and rocks or hi-lifting off them almost weekly since I put them on. They're as tight as the day I put them on.
If you ever get that Taco out on a run, holler. I'd love to check it out!
If you ever get that Taco out on a run, holler. I'd love to check it out!
- Thread starter
- #32
I had planned to have the Taco done for Cruising The Woods this year, but with the craziness that is 2020 I have not had as much time to work on it as planned (story of my life it seems). My goal is to have it done by the end of the year, and get out on some snow runs. I'll let you know when that happens!
Another option if you want made in the USA by a company with racing experience is Arizona Desert Racing shocks. I have their stuff on my GX and love it. Rebuildable. Rides like butter. I used Camburg ball joint UCA. Stock replacement LCA. Front and rear are both remote reservoir.
- Thread starter
- #34
Cool, I didn't know they made Toyota specific shocks. I'll keep them in mind as an option if I can get the pricing to work out.
Still riding on Radflo 2.5" Shocks + Resi front and rear on a GX470 with armor, steel bumper + winch, etc. Its a nice riding shock on and off road... Only issue ive had is one of the elbow fittings on the resi busted and the shock died. An email to Radflo was sent since it was under a year of actual ownership and they fixed it free of charge. I only paid for shipping one way.
That being said having good customer service is always a bonus that often gets overlooked.
That being said having good customer service is always a bonus that often gets overlooked.
- Thread starter
- #36
Good to hear about a positive CS experience, I've heard nothing but positive experiences with Radflo in general.
Do you recall which spring rate you have on the front coilovers? 700lb for the winch and bumper weight? What do you think about it for performance (matched to shock damping), preload required, etc?
i want to say its 700# since i recall Kings coming with a lighter springrate (650#).
That being said with the heavy front bumper + Winch + sliders + gas tank skid.. im running abut 1.0625" of preload in the front. I might consider going to a stiffer spring if i get full steel skid to reduce as much preload as possible. Attached pictur as reference. Disregard the raw image.
In regards to performance... ide say they match up well when overlanding and crawling over rocks. The 2.5" rear shocks are overkill in the rear if unloaded however once loaded down they dampen very well.... but now my +2" springs are need to be upgraded soon as the weight continues to grow.
Rear Toytec Aluma 2.0s came in... very beefy.
- Thread starter
- #39
Thanks for the info! The rig is looking good too! 700 seems pretty common for winch/bumper setups, though over an inch of preload might be pushing close to coil bind territory. Optimally, the less preload the better... I would definitely consider a stiffer spring if you add any more weight.
Icon offers 600/700, King 600/650/700, Toytec 700, and others are right around there. I don't want to sit very high, 2" over stock at most, but now I'm curious if 600 would be too soft. I'll have steel sliders and probably skids at some point as well.
YEEEEAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!
Those do look great. Toytec is definitely a top pick for me now.
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Here is a look at the all new Old Man Emu UCA
