Suggestions for Toyota Trails? Maybe

[65swb45]

Seriously, Mark.... What do you want me to do? Print extra issues filled solely with only stuff?

Yes, you've now officially gotten on my nerves.

TJK

As I said to you back in September Todd, nothing I am saying is directed at you; it's all about the situation. I thought this thread was about an open discussion about the Trails. Since it's your baby, I suppose that there is little ANYONE could say that you wouldn't take personally. Does that mean that it is only like 'pretend' open to discussion. I hope not.

I thought I was helping to smooth the waters so to speak by writing an article that didn't bash the Lexus thing, and I thought I was smoothing things out by posting that I didn't pressure you into printing my stuff, and still it sounds like you're upset anyways. Sometimes I just can't win. Feel like I'm walking on thin ice just to talk about something of legitimate public interest, and that's not right.

AGAIN, FOR THE RECORD: THERE IS NO BASHING OF TT OR TJK GOING ON HERE!

 

[Kaderabek]

I guess my point was that complaining about the system and then having me explain that the way certain parts of the system work can't be feasibly changed (for example, publishing once every two months) ought to be enough. But now you're bringing it up again. "Not exactly thrilled with the idea that even on the fast track, the article will [edit: would] not see the light of day until July. Nothing I can do tho but wait and see what Todd says." What I say is what I said before: there's lag time and there's nothing I can do about it. And there are articles that publish before others because they're time sensitive. Again, that's magazine publishing. If I'm taking it personally it's only because I've explained this before and have been as accommodating as I can be, and now you're back at me again with the same issue. It's your magazine, not my baby. I just get it done as best I can in my spare time and if that sometimes lets you down, Mark, I apologize. Your article in the latest issue looks pretty good though, saw an advance of it at lunch. As did your article in the previous issue. Seems like I'm working with you here, not against you.

TJK

 

[65swb45]

I just get it done as best I can in my spare time and if that sometimes lets you down, Mark, I apologize.TJK

First off, there is no 'let down' based on your spare time. Nobody is complaining about quality here ["best I can"] or asking you to give up your quality time with your family, or your wheelin time either. Maybe this is where we need to focus a little attention Todd. Maybe the TLCA needs to cough up the green to buy some of your regular time, so you don't feel like you're doing something less than what we're all very happy with. Only you know what your standards are.

I for one would like to see TT step up to a monthly format, because I think that that will make the mag really rival the newstand stuff, and get more people into the organization who think of it as another subscription for their coffee table. Maybe another $5 a year to cover it. Of course, this may be out of the question for level of energy that you can commit. I would be the first to also say that it is out of the question if it would involve committing more 'spare' time from you. That is too much to ask of any one person.

Your article in the latest issue looks pretty good though, saw an advance of it at lunch. As did your article in the previous issue. Seems like I'm working with you here, not against you.

TJK

No problems here sir. I don't know what else to say to take you off the defensive while still discussing ideas.

 

[Kaderabek]

If I was defensive the first time we discussed it, I apologize.

Toyota Trails once a month would be more than I could do at this time, and I would suspect more than the TLCA could afford. $5/year with 3,500 members paying wouldn't come close to covering the expense of six more issues.

My impression isn't that were trying to rival the newsstand stuff. We're just trying to be the best club magazine we can be with limited resources. I've said it before, I'll say it again, it's a group effort (of which you are a part) and I think we do OK.

TJK

 

[hatfieldcb]

...... Maybe the TLCA needs to cough up the green ....

I for one would like to see TT step up to a monthly format........ I would be the first to also say that it is out of the question if it would involve committing more 'spare' time from you. That is too much to ask of any one person.

While it is very flattering to us all that you'd like monthly Toyota Trails, I , for one would probably have to resign so you could turn the job over to someone more "full time". Todd's probably in the same boat. The TT ad sales is my third job and I cheat on the others (first one mostly) to do it. Monthly would be lots more work.

If we're ever ready to take it to monthly we'll need some full timers. Maybe if could double our membership numbers!! Then we'd have some extra cash flow for something like monthly issues.

Chris

 

[Kaderabek]

I'd bag my third job to get it done. That'd be a crazy schedule though. I worked just over 500 hours on Trails in 2004. 1,000 hours, that's 25, 40 hour weeks.

TJK

 

[Radd Cruisers]

I'd bag my third job to get it done. That'd be a crazy schedule though. I worked just over 500 hours on Trails in 2004. 1,000 hours, that's 25, 40 hour weeks.

TJK

WOW.....


It think most including myself have really no idea what it takes to put out a magazine.

I had no idea you would be putting in those types of hours.

My hat is off to you and your crew...

 

[Chef]

Without running numbers, I can't say exactly what it would cost to go monthly, but I do know $5perx3500 members won't come close to covering the cost of printing it, let alone the cost fo coming up with a full time staff to do it.

I'm glad to see Todd and Mark discussing this

It's all questions that get asked repeatedly, and the short answer is that inside the format of a volunteer organisation where even the paid staff is getting paid at a nrealy volunteer level (especially when compared to industry standard for the grade of work they do) it's just not possible for us to go monthly. If we get as large as bmwcca, and have correspondingly deep pockets, it might be more realistic.

I think it's a fine compliment to TT and TLCA that folks want so much more. Must be pretty happy with what you get, and that's our goal...

 

[Bodean]

I think it's great to discuss this kind of stuff but this is just the kind of thing that makes Volunteers not volunteer again. Be happy with what we have. Maybe someday we will have more. I think the guys with TLCA are doing a great job! TT is a world class mag! We have a great group of people in the TLCA. Try going to a Heep ride. You pay twice as much for registration and the people aren't near as hospitable. Great job Todd!

Later,

 

[dd113]

I am smelling a cage match. Funny enough, Mark is one of the participants! My money is on Todd; he eats meat and likes shoes, not sandals.


This is not really directed at anyone but look; this is a volunteer deal. No one is making any money off of this (well, except for me as an advertiser) so I find it funny that when a volunteer gives something to be published then gets hot over how/when it is published; that is just a bit much.

The idea here is to have fun and mess with cruisers. Too many people attach their ego to their hobby and that makes it very complicated.

Mark I know this will piss you off but you are always welcome to support TLCA and TT by advertising and being an associate member. At times it looks like you are trying to get a bunch of exposure but are being less than supportive of the organization as a whole. I bet if you took out a 1 page Marks Off Road Ad for a year they would have a budget large enough to have a "Mark Only" issue.

I find it very ironic that you have concernes with issues that are 100% directly related to advertising, the TT budget, yet you dont advertise.

 

[65swb45]

Mark I know this will piss you off but you are always welcome to support TLCA and TT by advertising and being an associate member. At times it looks like you are trying to get a bunch of exposure but are being less than supportive of the organization as a whole. I bet if you took out a 1 page Marks Off Road Ad for a year they would have a budget large enough to have a "Mark Only" issue.

I find it very ironic that you have concernes with issues that are 100% directly related to advertising, the TT budget, yet you dont advertise.

Well said David! Far from pissing me off, I consider it a wake up call. After Katemcy last month and TinBenders last weekend, there is no doubt left in my mind that the TLCA I pulled out of 12 years ago has NOTHING to do with the TLCA today, a TLCA which definitely deserves more support. I am finally ready to let down my long, wary guard and re-sign as an Associate Member. I will bring my checkbook to CM and make the arrangements with Chris Hatfield.

 

[hatfieldcb]

Well said David! Far from pissing me off, I consider it a wake up call. After Katemcy last month and TinBenders last weekend, there is no doubt left in my mind that the TLCA I pulled out of 12 years ago has NOTHING to do with the TLCA today, a TLCA which definitely deserves more support. I am finally ready to let down my long, wary guard and re-sign as an Associate Member. I will bring my checkbook to CM and make the arrangements with Chris Hatfield.

Mark,

Let's do lunch! Tell the truth, it was those sandwiches I fed you every day at K-Rocks that won you over! You're bringing your guitar, right? When are you getting to Moab? I'll be in one of the cabins at Slick Rock Campground.

Chris

 

[Kaderabek]

Excellent. Appreciate you becoming an associate member, Mark.

And David, thanks for your continued support of TLCA and Toyota Trails. If your truck wasn't so damned ugly we'd put you on the cover.

TJK

 

[woody]

Excellent. Appreciate you becoming an associate member, Mark.

And David, thanks for your continued support of TLCA and Toyota Trails. If your truck wasn't so damned ugly we'd put you on the cover.

TJK

don't lie Todd....it's not only the truck that's ugly....one of many reasons I don't make cover material either (unless someone catches C driving....she not only looks better, she out drives me....)

Assoc membership rocks....little extra support for TLCA, great way to get first class mailing as well.....I've made billions and billions from my small investment in the Assoc Membership and in my 1/8page color Toyota Trails ads....billions I tell ya....

 

[Kaderabek]

I had a cover shot of C at Katemcy until some asshat posted it to the internet....

Billions, huh? Maybe invest in a new RV.... ;p

TJK

 

[woody]

damn internet people...lol...I know it wasn't me, my pics were not nearly high enuf resolution....lol

C does have her 35mm camera in for repairs right now, hopefully that will lead to non-net photos....

why RV when you can U-Haul?

 

[Kaderabek]

When we were in the restaurant/bar business we had this band who would play every now and again, Beanland, two of the guys later melded into WSP. They toured non-stop in a U-Haul truck. Had a space in the back set up for sleeping, eating, etc. Dark in there though.

TJK

 

[woody]

now, not to jump on that, but...

There are what, 3200 people receiving Toyota Trails, and what, 1000 of those that frequent the internet enuf to actually catch a glimpse of those online photos (1/2 of which won't cause their bandwidth isn't high enuf to take the time to hit all the photo albums!)....

I'd be curious to the actual odds....'MUD has 6000+ registered, but only ~1200 registered online a day....tho, it does consistently get 7500 unique daily visitors....however, looking at the 'MUD Gallery stats, most of those images were only viewed a couple hundred times....

ever feel like you are "punishing" 2900 TLCA members because 300 of them have already seen a pic??

 

[Kaderabek]

I think far more than 300 people see the photos. Not sure how you're doing that voodoo-math, reminds me of Reaganomics.

You know there's that other board too.... And tons of private websites where photos are posted and linked on the boards.

To keep Trails in perspective for myself I think back to the days when I frothed at the mouth waiting for my copy to show up in my mailbox. Would I be disappointed to see a cover shot that I'd already seen on the internet? Yes, I would. Plus I feel like we do fairly well with the photography that folks keep off the internet and send in to Trails. It's quality stuff. I think the real disappointment is that of the hundreds of photos submitted (especially from events), perhaps 10 at best are used for an article. And I don't know until the last minute which photos will be used. So there's 90+ photos that could have been posted to the internet in a more timely basis. Still, I think it's worth it for people to see their photo and credit in Trails.

TJK

 

[woody]

IMO, it will not be too long before there is little chance of an "original" photo or article making it to the publication....the instant gratification of the internet and the instant response will make the Magazine complimentary to the web.

Regardless of being online prior, there is something "special" about seeing a photo in print tho, especially considering the additional resolution, clarity, etc of the quality of the TT printing versus a 17" monitor with a 1024x768 pic slapped on it.....

additionally, it's the story accompanying the photos...something that's usually doesn't happen with net gallerys.

I still wonder...300 people, or 300 Toyota Trails receiving people?