Solar Power for your Residence? Buy, Lease, Wait???

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re_guderian said:
I do have to say that i was impressed with the customer service, warranty offered, and comprehensiveness of SolarCity's program. Everything looked GREAT on paper until we got to the Kwh charge. I'll PM you. Maybe I just don't understand the economics of it. I also get the necessity to pay APS for the grid connection, etc. etc. I DO need new roof felt, (27 years old) and would have to have that done anyway before installation, so that's not a worry, and the $500 fee is more than fair for whatever comes up later.

Gonna start now with some metering of my usage overall, and see if I can identify and fix some of the energy hogs in my home. I have ~3K sq ft, and pay an AVERAGE of $360/month. Seems a little steep. I also have no gas (all electric) and 3 teenage daughters living at home :( House is 27 years old, but does have double pane windows, new GE 50 gal water heater, one new 15 SEER heat pump, one crappy old one. But still just 2x4 walls, blown in insulation above 2nd story, and who-knows-how-much batting over the greatroom trusses. I have a second frig in the garage (location sucks, but no interior option.) I'll report back with some better numbers next week. Ordered an overall usage meter that should help determine usage of things like lights, dryer, AC/Heat, etc. as well as a plug in watt meter. Will go to town this weekend.
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If you log in to the aps website, they should give you a years worth of utility bills, usage, and corresponding avg temperatures. That can be quite helpful. And 360 is pretty high, I'll look for your pm.
 
Three teenage girls, 2X4 construction, total electric your back is already against the wall. Setback thermostats and timer on the water heater probably isn't a option. Since your not planning on staying there for a long time doing major improvements like extra insulation and stucco on the exterior won't have enough time to see a return on your investment. Like Phil has already mentioned changing lamps is a good start if you have teenagers who don't know what a light switch is. Been slowing switching mine to LEDs. The right deal on a solar lease could be option for you. The problem is just like the load controller from back in the eighties you have to be careful which one you go with. There were plenty of salesman selling them promising huge saving never telling them it comes at a cost. Lost count of the times I checked a A/C unit out only to tell the customer there was nothing wrong with the A/C except the load controller was preventing it from running. Precoolers, Hot Tap, heatpump water heaters all designed to save the customer money but in the end the big winners were the companies selling them.
 
Wow. Good info here.
 
Total KWh for me was 1423 last month but I still have a pool. Lights have been changed to LED and fluorescent bulbs to lower usage along with 5 year old heat pumps. House is 28 years old.

And all my Christmas lights.
 
LandCruiserPhil said:
The best way to hedge APS rate increases is to buy PNW stock:)
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I remember when Merabank went belly up and Pinnacle West was in trouble and they were considering selling APS as it was their only company not in the red. That would have been as smart as the state selling off it's buildings to balance a single year budget. We all know how well that worked for the state, we now have a balanced budget with a surplus.:rolleyes:
 
re_guderian said:
:eek: Total Kwh used last month 2099 :eek::bang::crybaby::crybaby::crybaby:

Is that including your solar? or just net billed from the utility?
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Not including my solar
My solar is small 840W and has produces an average of 125khw/month since installed
Payback should be around 4years

By going small I optimized-
Not subject to power company solar rules and costly installation requirements
Did not need to change my great grandfathered rate plan
Use 100% of my power produced during the highest KW cost
Minimal installation literally just plugs in, no other equipment needed other than the picture

I have other smaller solar systems to help offset the daily highest costing kwh time-
Electric gate is solar
Storage ventilator
Battery charger capable of keeping 5 deep cycle batteries charge

My home has only one incandescent light - the light in my frig door

IMG_3601.webp


We are/were an authorized dealer for a major solar power system manufacturing company and I could not make the numbers work for my complete house even as a dealer.
 
Oh - and better than water heater timers are the heat pump variety. That or an old pot belly stove out back and a kettle.
 
My numbers
Home style is block walls with no insulation
asphalt shingle roof with blown insulation in attic
double pane windows throughout (6 years old)
2100 sq feet
Diving pool
Gas WH
Electric 14 seer heat pump fairly new +- 5 years old
Mostly compact fluorescents throughout the house
Average 1850 KWH per month 2014
 
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If you are interested in knowing how good - or how bad - losses can be in a particular home design, this tool can be your ticket to knowledge.

http://www.builditsolar.com/References/Calculators/HeatLoss/HeatLoss.htm


SEER is cooling ... HPF is heating ... newer heat pumps can acheive 24+ SEER and similar high HPF. But usually only the newest mini-split units are making those numbers. Whole house units have losses in ducting that decrease efficiency (from what I've been able to discern). But moving SEER from 15 to 24 is a 60% gain, and HPF (for those heating more than cooling) from 1 (radient) to 9.5 HPF a 90% reduction.

http://daikincomfort.com/products/ductless/commercial-lv-series-slim-duct-and-wall-mount
 
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I increased my SEER and HPF:rolleyes: rating by maximizing the inside fan efficiency. By installing a off trip relay to my inside fan to run after my compressor/inside fan turns off. I timed and tested the vent air temp after my compressor shuts off until it reach the same as the inside temp and set my delay for that.
 
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LandCruiserPhil said:
I increased my SEER and HPF:rolleyes: rating by maximizing the inside fan efficiency. By installing a off trip relay to my inside fan to run after my compressor/inside fan turns off. I timed and tested the vent air temp after my compressor shuts off until it reach the same as the inside temp and set my delay for that.
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Higher end thermostats are supposed to do that step automatically without any extra hardware. At least my last Goodman claimed it was doing that level of management (16-18 SEER). -- also, the thermostat delayed fan turn on to allow the coils to get to temp before blasting hot (in cool mode) or cold (in heat mode) air at you.
 
GWcruiser said:
Higher end thermostats are supposed to do that step automatically without any extra hardware. At least my last Goodman claimed it was doing that level of management (16-18 SEER). -- also, the thermostat delayed fan turn on to allow the coils to get to temp before blasting hot (in cool mode) or cold (in heat mode) air at you.
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I was able to get my 16-18 SEER with a $13 relay:flipoff2:

My 10 yr old unit has built in controls to allow temps to be reached prior to the inside fan:meh:
 
LandCruiserPhil said:
I was able to get my 16-18 SEER with a $13 relay:flipoff2:

My 10 yr old unit has built in controls to allow temps to be reached prior to the inside fan:meh:
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I guess that was what I was saying... the typical electronic thermostat can do a lot of things - with no $13 relay jerry rigged into a tight furnace enclosure needed ;).
 
GWcruiser said:
I guess that was what I was saying... the typical electronic thermostat can do a lot of things - with no $13 relay jerry rigged into a tight furnace enclosure needed ;).
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Oh no he diant:eek:
 
GWcruiser said:
I guess that was what I was saying... the typical electronic thermostat can do a lot of things - with no $13 relay jerry rigged into a tight furnace enclosure needed ;).
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I can only do what I know, so Im limited
 
Can you post up some more details like parts involved and how you made the connection to your panel?
Thanks,
Paul from Tucson


LandCruiserPhil said:
Not including my solar
My solar is small 840W and has produces an average of 125khw/month since installed
Payback should be around 4years

By going small I optimized-
Not subject to power company solar rules and costly installation requirements
Did not need to change my great grandfathered rate plan
Use 100% of my power produced during the highest KW cost
Minimal installation literally just plugs in, no other equipment needed other than the picture

I have other smaller solar systems to help offset the daily highest costing kwh time-
Electric gate is solar
Storage ventilator
Battery charger capable of keeping 5 deep cycle batteries charge

My home has only one incandescent light - the light in my frig door

View attachment 1018227

We are/were an authorized dealer for a major solar power system manufacturing company and I could not make the numbers work for my complete house even as a dealer.
Click to expand...
 
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