So i test drove a Defender today….

[stonepa]

And there is no way I’ll be replacing my 200 with one of those at any point. I like the styling but the choice of interior plastics is weird, the 6 cylinder engine is harsh and idles roughly, the interior sound deadening is poor, the roof rails look like they would be difficult to use, the electronic shift knob is just plain annoying, and you have to hit way too many buttons/screens to do simple things. Definitely not for me. I guess my 200 will have to do for another decade.

 

[Artie]

If you need any amusement or more reasons to not buy one I’d suggest joint the owners group on FB. I joined a while back when we were considering one before deciding on the LC... there are a lot of posts with weird issues and bizarre quirky behaviors. I’m so glad we skipped that train wreck.

 

[Lester did that]

Those things are a train wreck. I want to know what the company was thinking. Offer a really good warranty for 5 years? My buddy is a LR guy and got one 3 months ago. Its been in the shop for 3 weeks on and off. He broke down on a forest service road and I pulled him back about 20 miles with a 2009 LC. We have a playful banter about the LC vs LR but I kept my mouth shut. My ego was maxed out pulling a 2020 Defender into the dealership with an old LC. Heh. My face hurt the next day from the massive grin I had. I still don't have to say a thing I just smile and immediately get a "Shut the f&*% up!" every time he has to bring it in for something.

They are so unreliable. Great looking and an amazing design. The have the best engineers for aesthetics and comfort but whats the point if you have less than 1000k on it and it needs major repairs? If I purchased any new vehicle, even a sedan, and had these issues I would want my money back. Warranty be damned. It's my wasted time. You get a new vehicle for piece of mind that it won't break. Let alone the Defender is advertised as a lux capable SUV. It is not capable of getting you to the grocery store and back on tarmac. Why would you take it remote?

All that aside he also owns a small fleet of LR's. The older ones had issues but as time went on the fixes where mechanical. Like replace the drive shaft with a serviceable shaft. The thing is now its all E failure. So it makes it even harder to service yourself.

 

[RT Cruiser]

I venture to say 90% of car buyers in North America do so based on the emotional and manipulative advertisements. There's more than enough data on Consumer Reports and online forums clearly showing the horrible quality and durability of Land Rover, most anything by "Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep", Fiat, etc. They get a Jeep cuz they see a tv ad with a group of millennials driving around on EASY sand having fun. Most of the tv ads of Jeeps or Rovers or whatever plowing through snow? If you look closely, it's a flat road, very powdery snow, and untouched (snowy roads with light traffic tends to create icy spots).

Sales people know it's always about the buyer's emotions. Once the sales person knows it and can maximize it, then the deal is done. I love Subaru's but find their tv ads about dogs driving Outbacks to be annoying. Clearly, there's a whole bunch of buyers who care nothing of the quality and durability of a Subaru but are easily sold by seeing dogs on tv.

 

[gx2lc]

I too was strongly considering the defender for all speed cruise control, native CarPlay, and interior. Happy I didn’t after seeing lots of issues like below. The Land Cruiser is my only vehicle and I need to trust that it will turn on every time.

 

[goodnightnyc]

Same here. I was looking hard at the Defender while car shopping. The design is modern and aesthetically pleasing. My wife liked it a lot. It looks rugged, but it seems that’s just on the surface. Maybe for most people that look is enough.

Glad I chose the LC 200 instead. In 20 years the Defender would probably be falling apart while the LC would just be broken in.

 

[greynolds]

Land Rovers are almost always incredibly wonderful vehicles EXCEPT for when it comes to quality control. I bought a new 2014 Range Rover that had some basic stuff wrong at delivery - things like the hood wasn't latching properly. This was mostly stuff the dealership should have found as they were prepping it for delivery.

That was bad enough, but they also decided to go with a really stupid gimmick with the shifter dial (you turn a knob to select P, R, N, D) that was purely for show. When you turn the ignition off, the knob would retract into the center console and couldn't be operated until it popped back up. Yes, you all guessed it - it sometimes wouldn't pop up when you turned the ignition on. There was a recall for it, but I ultimately decided that I didn't want to risk being somewhere on a trip without cell phone service and be unable to drive because something basic like the shift knob wasn't operational. AFAIK, there was no workaround for it - if it didn't pop up, you were stuck.

There were other relatively minor announces such as the infotainment system being sluggish and requiring a lot of nested menus to do basic things. From the reviews I've seen of the new Defender, these issues still exist. The saving grace is that they now have CarPlay, so you can avoid some of the sluggishness, but there's still no avoiding it for things like adjusting heating controls and that sort of thing.

Fortunately demand for Range Rovers was through the roof at the time. Dealers rarely had any on the lot and IIRC it took about 4 months for the one I ordered to arrive. I traded it in after 6 months and didn't lose any money.

If Land Rover ever manages to figure out how to get their quality control to Toyota's level (or at least reasonably close), the result would be truly amazing because they really do check a lot of boxes for overall design, off road capability, and so on.

 

[hblx570]

I had a defender 90 for a minute....it was okay. Toyota made in japan is far superior. I cannot speak for toyota made in usa or mexico.

 

[Yossarian]

Sad part is the Land Rover Range Rover is the only other tasteful SUV comparable to the Land Cruiser. As is often stated, it pales in comparison regarding reliability.

The absence of the LC in NA will leave a very large void.

 

[Reckless]

cybertruck and 10,000lb Hummer EV. Waiting for both to come out soon. Defender could have been reliable if they made it an EV, fewer moving parts. Waiting for EV Land Cruiser in 5 years. Hopefully this time they put a comfier seat.

 

[Pura Vida]

LOL they got the check engine light at 167 miles, and it only got worse from there......I would stick with the LC any day. Buy a land rover if you want to get there, buy a land cruiser if you want to come back.

 

[Markuson]

My neighbor didn’t even make it home from the dealership across town a couple years ago in their brand new $150k LR.

Meanwhile, my 200 is14 years old and counting…
Never ONCE failed to get me back home.

 

[tbisaacs]

As an enthusiast, I’m glad the new defender exists and I really want it to be good.

 

[Pura Vida]

As an enthusiast, I’m glad the new defender exists and I really want it to be good.

So far, not looking good

 

[Yossarian]

My neighbor didn’t even make it home from the dealership across town a couple years ago in their brand new $150 LR.

Meanwhile, my 200 is14 years old and counting…
Never ONCE failed to get me back home.
View attachment 2689424View attachment 2689425View attachment 2689426View attachment 2689427View attachment 2689428

Mark, what's next? Many that we know have bought a new 200, but knowing these are built to last, I've decided to save what I have. Keep it well maintained and hope for the best is how I'm looking at it.

 

[Markuson]

Mark, what's next? Many that we know have bought a new 200, but knowing these are built to last, I've decided to save what I have. Keep it well maintained and hope for the best is how I'm looking at it.

I just finally had major preventative and upgrade work done at Slee in March…so I’m in this for the long haul. I don’t have the wallet to really even be in a 200, much less a new one… or whatever is next (I personally believe the LC will be back in ‘22 or ‘23). But whatever is new next will be out of my price range for years yet before maybe eventually considering something used. So…my 2008 is where I’ll happily be for a while. Should be in pretty good shape though as its pretty dialed in and major components checked out and renewed, gears, lockers (so new diffs) and quite a list beyond.

Back on-topic…
…Besides resale value, and strictly use… I would take my aging 200 100x over a LR. But I do wish them well.

 

[Markuson]

As an enthusiast, I’m glad the new defender exists and I really want it to be good.

Me too. Always figure rooting for the competition is rooting for positive pressure on all. Same for Bronco & Jeep. Just wish they’d all figure out quality control and prioritize reliability. Someone needs to put pressure on Toyota besides Toyota.

 

[greynolds]

As an enthusiast, I’m glad the new defender exists and I really want it to be good.

Me too. Always figure rooting for the competition is rooting for positive pressure on all. Same for Bronco & Jeep. Just wish they’d all figure out quality control and prioritize reliability. Someone needs to put pressure on Toyota besides Toyota.

Same here. Wouldn't it be amazing if all of the otherwise good options had something close to the reliability and quality control of Toyota. If that were the case, I suspect quite a few here would actually end up picking something other than a LC because these 2 factors (reliability and quality control) overrode other priorities. Honda obviously does really well on these 2 priorities, but doesn't exactly have an option that would otherwise fit what most of us are looking for.

After having a recent Armada as a rental a few years ago on a trip, I seriously considered one (or the sister QX80) when I bought the LC, but reliability and quality control concerns as well as Nissan's questionable short/long term viability in the USA removed it from the list. It wouldn't be quite as rugged off road as the LC, but if I'm being 100% honest, that really wouldn't be a problem for my intended use. Overall, we enjoyed having it as the rental on our vacation - it handled well (for what it is), had plenty of power, and was very comfortable on the long driving days. I probably could have gotten a much more significant discount off of MSRP on an Armada too, which would have been a nice cost savings.

 

[CharlieS]

The problem I see is that you have a company built around a quality management system building a SUV (Toyota) versus a SUV company tying to reverse engineer quality (Land Rover). That doesn't work. Never has.

Quality is a culture, and is starts from day one, and is instilled in every choice, every employee, every process, every decision. The cost of quality is exponentially more the further you get from the origin, and at some point it becomes uneconomical. Land Rover will never be able to reverse engineer in Toyota quality in an economically viable way.

I wish Land Rover well too. I like the new Defender conceptually. I LOVE the original D90 styling. It screams rugged capability. Unfortunately, unless I win a lottery and get to build out a stable with many vehicles, I'll never own one. And if I did, I'd want one that had been worked over, like a Bowler.

<fantasy time> What would be freaking awesome is for Toyota to take design cues from Land Rover and build a more offroad focused SUV with a rugged looking exterior. While my Land Cruiser checks a ton of boxes for me, and I can't think of any better vehicle that meets my criteria, the exterior styling is pretty "meh". They could do better (and the 300 is not it).

 

[greynolds]

The problem I see is that you have a company built around a quality management system building a SUV (Toyota) versus a SUV company tying to reverse engineer quality (Land Rover). That doesn't work. Never has.

While I agree with what you're saying, I don't get the feeling that Land Rover has ever even attempted to address the quality control issues. There's no doubt that even if they couldn't get to Toyota's level there's plenty of room to get somewhere between where they are now and Toyota's level.

<fantasy time> What would be freaking awesome is for Toyota to take design cues from Land Rover and build a more offroad focused SUV with a rugged looking exterior. While my Land Cruiser checks a ton of boxes for me, and I can't think of any better vehicle that meets my criteria, the exterior styling is pretty "meh". They could do better (and the 300 is not it).

A classic FJ-40 style body on a modern platform... So more or less what Mercedes has done with the G-Wagon. While I appreciate what they attempted to do with the FJ Cruiser, I really didn't like the look of the body style at all.