Snow wheeling tips

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MDarius

MDarius

I break stuff.
SILVER Star
10 Year 15 Year
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Apr 10, 2006
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177
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Location
Bountiful, UT
I've searched on this and haven't really found what I am looking for. I have experience wheeling where it's dry, and a little mud, but I've only been off road in the snow once and I immediately got stuck (Heep Cherokee). I am taking some scouts to camp Bartlett in Idaho at the end of the month to meet up with a SAR team for some high adventure. There will be a lot of snow and I want some specific advice. I thought this would be a good place to compile other snow tips as well so they are all in one place.

1. My first concern is working on a side incline, where the rig is tipped a little, trail is covered in snow, and there is eminent peril on the downhill side. What's the best way to deal with this without ending up in the ditch? Speed? Slow and easy? Steer uphill? CDL on/off?

2. How deep is the fluffy stuff when you start thinking twice about moving forward? If that's not the right question, what do YOU use to determine that it's time to park it or turn back?

3. I've heard it's best to air down to about 13 PSI, have chains on all 4 if you can, just the front if you can't do all 4. Is this right?

4. Best tips for getting un-stuck in the snow. Someone mentioned lime for mud, it hardens the mud and let's you crawl right out. l know that won't work in snow but other similar tips would be great.

I'm running stock, will add the CDL switch before we go, have a hi-lift jack, and running revos as stated in my sig line.

Please don't suggest that I get a lift and a winch before I go, it aint gonna happen. It would be nice to have tips in here for vehicles of various abilities, since that's what we have on the forum.

...Alright...you can SUGGEST it, but you'll probably get a flip-off!

So with that, let's have it! Thanks! :cheers:
 
I only have very limited experience in snow. But, from what I've gathered, torque is NOT your friend. Keep it in high range if you can. 2nd gear starts are sometimes needed as well.

Side hills- yikes. I have no good advice there.

Carry a good shovel and chain up when it gets above the hubs (my rule of thumb)
 
MDarius said:
I've searched on this and haven't really found what I am looking for. I have experience wheeling where it's dry, and a little mud, but I've only been off road in the snow once and I immediately got stuck (Heep Cherokee). I am taking some scouts to camp Bartlett in Idaho at the end of the month to meet up with a SAR team for some high adventure. There will be a lot of snow and I want some specific advice. I thought this would be a good place to compile other snow tips as well so they are all in one place.

1. My first concern is working on a side incline, where the rig is tipped a little, trail is covered in snow, and there is eminent peril on the downhill side. What's the best way to deal with this without ending up in the ditch? Speed? Slow and easy? Steer uphill? CDL on/off?

2. How deep is the fluffy stuff when you start thinking twice about moving forward? If that's not the right question, what do YOU use to determine that it's time to park it or turn back?

3. I've heard it's best to air down to about 13 PSI, have chains on all 4 if you can, just the front if you can't do all 4. Is this right?

4. Best tips for getting un-stuck in the snow. Someone mentioned lime for mud, it hardens the mud and let's you crawl right out. l know that won't work in snow but other similar tips would be great.

I'm running stock, will add the CDL switch before we go, have a hi-lift jack, and running revos as stated in my sig line.

Please don't suggest that I get a lift and a winch before I go, it aint gonna happen. It would be nice to have tips in here for vehicles of various abilities, since that's what we have on the forum.

...Alright...you can SUGGEST it, but you'll probably get a flip-off!

So with that, let's have it! Thanks! :cheers:
Click to expand...


Do you have lockers?

Here is a rule of thumb I would use:

Air down. I use 15 PSI - 13 should be good.

Low range once you are offroad and in the snow. If you have CDL and 7 pin mod, you can run in AWD low range, but if you hit any real depth you want CDL on.

On side inclines where the snow is packed and icy, I don't crawl. I keep a little bit of speed. If it is deep, you have no choice. And you probably shouldn't be out alone in deep snow on an incline where you could roll it, but you know that.

Turn back when you can't go forward. If you have lockers, engage the rear when going gets tough, front if you need them. If you are plowing snow, get out and shovel off the "wave" in front of you.

For Revos in deep snow offroad, chains on all four tires. If you are going alone, you probably shouldn't be asking these questions, but having said that, take along extraction gear. Getting out of snow involves removing it from around the tires and undercarriage - it really isn't comparable to mud from an extraction standpoint. Take shovels and at least a tow strap and your hi-lift jack. A hand winch (come-along) is also a very handy tool.

It sounds like you will be camping and have the necessary survival gear, so really the only issue if you have chains would be a) just not making it all the way due to deep snow (is this "road" plowed"?) or rolling on an incline.

Bottom line: you need chains for all four tires. If you haven't driven in the snow offroad before, I'd suggest going out with a group to get a feel for it before you are committed in a situation that may be riskier due to lack of experience than it would otherwise be.

Good luck and have fun :cheers:
 
I was out snow wheeling last night. It all depends on the type of snow and the depth. If it is wet heavy snow you will be stopped long before you are pushing snow. If it is light dry powder you can go a long ways, I once was pushing 10" with my front bumper of a Jeep Cherokee when the snow was dry. I would carry chains if you have them, put them on when it starts getting deep. Chains will dig down for traction, if the snow is heavy you may get by airing down and trying to float a little. Don't loose momentum on a side hill, keep moving and try not to do any drastic moves (gas, brake, etc). Have fun and keep a tow strap handy when you get stuck (assuming you are with another rig).
 
Thanks! Good questions. I'm not locked, just CDL. We'll have me, a Dodge Durango...for what that's worth...and possibly a Ford F250 (90's model). Nobody has a winch. I have no idea what the SAR guys will have. I've never been to this location before, so I don't know what to expect. The guys who have been say that the road is NOT plowed for about 4 miles before we get to camp. They are talking about snow-mobiling the gear in from the gate. I'd like to see how far I can get in the cruiser. I plan to take it easy though because of my inexperience in the snow, and I won't have a chance to go out before hand. We are leaving on the 26th and next weekend is booked. I also figure this is a good time to get some experience what with a Search and Rescue crew and at least two other trucks on hand, and 8-10 scouts to dig me out!
 
FJnAK said:
... I would carry chains if you have them, put them on when it starts getting deep. Chains will dig down for traction, if the snow is heavy you may get by airing down and trying to float a little....
Click to expand...

Do you air down with chains on, or will it cause a problem with the chains?
 
make sure all the kids have good equipment to walk back safely...?
 
e9999 said:
make sure all the kids have good equipment to walk back safely...?
Click to expand...

Snowshoeing is part of the weekend plans. We're set.
 
I'll bet there is so much snow there that you won't get past the gate in a vehicle. The other guys covered it. Snow can be tricky depending on its consistency. I would never push it, especially in an unfamiliar area unless you had a lot of help. It's fun to drive in until it gets past the point of being able to turn around. Also, you might get to your destination without a problem, but the weather could turn and you end up having to leave your rig there till spring. Seen that happen to guys before and seems the vandals always find your rig before it gets removed. Have fun!
 
A couple comments on snow:

Pay attention to two aspects: the snow you can see, and the subsurface you cannot see.

The snow you can see can be assessed in two classes: wet or dry. Dry snow isn't an issue - most vehicles can push 24+ inches of dry snow out the way. Wet snow is closer to mud, and it can pack into the undercarriage, wheels, brakes - this may cause mechanical problems. Wet snow creates suction, sticktion, whatever you want to call it - it traps vehicles quickly. If you get stuck, dig, dig, dig before you cook a clutch or strap it. It's important to know what is under you before you get yanked out. Don't bring a snowshovel, driveway style, bring a traditional off-road shovel. Avalanche shovels are handy too.

Now - the subsurface, which you cannot see, will be hardpack snow or ice. Hardpack snow, in very cold temps (single digits) offers traction. Closer to 32 degrees you have water/ice, and nothing does well on ice. That is when chains will be great. The other danger is obstacles - it's so easy to catch a rock or stump hidden in snow, which can end your ride with a nasty mechanical. Another hidden danger is ice, as in river/lake/tanktrap hole. In an 80 you are likely to be heavier than your fellow rigs, so where they cross on ice an 80 may break through.

Traveling in a group of three is preferred for snow, because you'd be surprised how easily two can get stuck as part of a recovery. Vehicles slide around oddly, and quickly, on snow runs, and people get in trouble fast.

Straps will work well in place of a winch, but I'd want a Hi-Lift along. If you break thru an ice ledge a strap won't get your wheels up and out. In so many cases in snow a Hi-Lift is easiest to jack up, push over, repeat as needed to "walk" the vehicle out of a bad spot, or to better align it for a recovery. In snow, vehicles tend to slide off the trail, which complicates things.

Lastly, concerning side slopes, these are the most dangerous snow situations. A common error is to wiggle the steering wheel around - try not to do this. Think about how you would walk across the side slope - you plant a foot and keep it there, right? If you wiggle it, you slide downslope a few inches. Same thing happens with a tire footprint. Choose a line and hold to it. Have an exit plan if things get weird, can you turn downslope and exit? Even if the exit is in the rough, it's preferrable to rolling, or sliding off-camber and being wedged on a few trees.

If you're meeting a group of SAR folks you should be in good hands. That usually means you'll have cool heads, no concerns for a forced overnight, and medical knowledge.

Hope this helps and doesn't scare you off! If you have chains and 2 other trucks you should be fine. As always with snow trips be prepared for a few nights sleeping/eating in the truck just in case, sleeping bags, food, etc. But again, between scouts and SAR people you should have a great crew to explore with.
 
Hi, I have some snow driving experiance. But I have no idea if the snow over there is anything like the snow here in Iceland where I live. We almost never have deep powder like snow, so I dont know anything about driving in powder snow.

First of all, be easy on the gas pedal. Use the low gear and CDL.
If you get stuck, dont step on the gas and let all the wheels spin. If you do so you will only make big holes under the wheels, and it will be much harder to get moving again.

Insted, be calm, slowly try to move back alittle, then forward again, then back and so on. Let the car kind of roll back and forth. Then you will compress the snow under the tires and in the end you will back up. Remeber not to let the tires spin.

When driving ahea into a pile of snow, do not drive as fast as you can, just go easy and be ready to let the gas pedal go when you feel that the car is about to get stuck. Back up and try slowly again. Go back and forth to try to press the snow under the tires for better grip and easier backing out if you cant get across the snow.

Air down, here in Iceland we air down, we go all the way to 1-2psi on 38" tires. I´m running 35" and I would not go lower than 3-4 psi.
But dont think about going so lo unless you have aircompressor to fill up again and know how to get the tires back on the rim ;)

When pulling out a car stuck in snow, the best way is using a dynamic rope. Try to strech the rope as much as you can without pulling to fast. It even works well to pull fast and then when the rope streches let go of the gas pedal, and let the car run and pull. This gives much relaxed pull and damage to the cars is not as likely.

If the stuck car does not move, then ofcourse try to pull harder.

One tip more, driving in deep snow is fun, but remember! Always try to have one free car. It looks quite silly to have allt three cars stuck at the same time, it is also much easier to pull if one car is free ;)



Ps. Sorry if the spelling is not perfect. I´m just icelandic.
 
Two things allready pointed out that i totally agree with is one, air down. And two, i use a little momentum on sidehill stuff. Don't try to crawl it or you will just start sliding sideways. Momentum on the high side usually keeps you there and you get through it.
 
Token Candadian here beaking off. Dont worry so much about the driving, plan on being stuck and stranded. Bring a good cb, not a hand held. Bring a big orange tarp so you can spread it out and be seen from the air (of course this only applies if you are going in the bush and alone). Bring lots of food and good winter clothes, in particular good insulated boots. Bring extra fuel for your truck, wood for a fire, lots of matches, and a flare gun. Get chains and practice putting them on Before you go, that qway you can be sure they fit and have all the parts and you know how to put them on. Is your truck up to snuff? Yeah, I know its a cruiser, but they can still fail, and after all its not just your life in your hands there are kids there too.

On the driving on off camber roads, or down steep hils, do not use lockers. It is in my opinion always good to have a wheel that can free wheel in these situations. Thaat free wheel can sometimes be the only thing keeping you from sliding sideways.

Good luck,

Karl

P>S> someone also mentioned snowshoes. That sounds like a good idea to me.
 
I have the Revos on my truck and have been doing a bit of snow driving both on-road and off lately, so I have a decent idea what their strengths are in the snow. If you are not using chains and you have a way to air back up, I've wheeled them pretty hard down to 9 psi on a couple occasions with no problems. You risk losing a bead that low on a 285 tire, but if you aren't getting crazy, you should be fine in the 10-12 psi range. I've noticed in really deep snow that the difference between 12, 15, even 20 psi really isn't that noticeable. I have to get below 10 psi to really start to feel the improvement in deep stuff.

That being said, if you don't have a lift, going down that low on the tires, you start to lose precious ground clearance. You might be better off at full street pressure with a good set of chains. If you are worried about off-camber roads, I would look at chaining up all four corners with a chain that offers some side-to-side traction. Do a search for RUD chains. If you have time to order those, they sound like the best deal going for quality chains. If you don't have time, try Les Schwab. They have a Chinese knock-off diamond pattern chain that is probably almost as good, but you'll pay a little more.

Oh, and take a good shovel or two.
 
Thanks everybody. I have to laugh. I went out at lunch time, prior to reading post #9 or anything after, and played in the snow plow piles at work. the ones I took slow (an entire line of pile about 200 ft long, 2-3 feet deep) I did fine while in high. It was when I had my daughter with me, on the way to her doctor's appointment, I was feeling cocky and went to show off. I hit a big pile and got high centered on the snow. I had to have the maintenance guys pull me off. Pretty humiliating. Pretty dang funny though.

I did gun it in to the pile, then when I was stuck I gassed it forward. By that time reverse was no longer an option. All 4 were spinning free. If I had gone slow I wouldn't have gotten that far and wouldn't have been stuck.

Keep the good advice coming. I think this useful for my than my upcoming trip. Thanks so far!
 
With the recent snowstorms we had here in CO, I had the chance to go out and play around a little. Here's my observations:

Your forward progress is largely determined by the type and depth of the snow and if you are breaking new tracks. Fluffy or dry snow is easier than a wet, heavy snow. Once it gets deeper than about 2-3 feet, your tires will dig down enough that you will quickly become high centered. Chains help to a point and then they just dig faster resulting in a stuck even easier. At this point stop and remove some of the snow behind your tires. Back up a couple truck lengths and then charge forward again. Repeat this process until you're exhausted. With a forward progress of say 10 feet at a time, this takes a long, long time to get down the trail. If you have to climb a hill or grade it is much slower going.

Oh, and the notion of 'floating' on top of the snow does not apply to regular type trucks. The only rigs that float are monster type trucks with gigantic tires or tracked rigs like snow cats or snowmobiles. The pressure your boots exert on the snow is much less than your tires. So if you sink up to your waist, your truck will to:D

Have fun, be safe.
 
bjowett said:
This has Dateline and Storm Stories writen all over it... :D
Click to expand...

Yep! My thoughts exactly. I do quite a bit of winter wheeling.

I've only been close to getting in big trouble once and if you watch the shows on TV I did everything wrong except telling someone where I was going and when I would return. I think watching some of those shows where people die or almost die before you go is a good idea. It lets you become more conscious of the mistakes that you could make.

When I wheel in the winter now I pretty much will only wheel if there is a pack of people. There is some safety in numbers. 10 rigs are a lot easier to find than 1 or 2.

Bad things can happen very quickly. I certianly wouldn't go out with a group where everyone was inexperienced.

My experience tells me that lockers will just get you into trouble. You lose lateral control in snow with them. They dig you deeper quicker. And they might just get you a little further down the trail and further into trouble.
 
Fwiw,
listen to the above, wet snow is easier to wheel in as you can ride on top of it. I would avoid side hills without chains.
ONe other thing to look at is current temperature and expeted daily high, IE if you come in at 8:00 am and it is 20 degrees out you are going to have a completely different experience than when you come down the same trail and it gets above 32 degrees, What you were on top of now turns to slush, Remember getting in is only half of the battle. Getting out is more important.
Dave
 
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