Snow wheeling tips

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Haffi,

Chuckled at your advice to keep at least one truck unstuck at all times because this important rule only occurs to you when two of you are stuck and the third vehicle is screwing around and gets high centered. You both get out of your truck and look at the third driver with a "what were you thinking!!??" glare. That's when this little gem's value is known. BTDT. We immediately established a rule: Last guy stuck shovels out a truck until it can move. That way, nobody wants to be the last stuck vehicle and it teaches every driver to pay attention to the others status. Snow wheeling is very much a team sport.

As for advice, 80s don't do real well in trail snow unless you've got serious tires. They're heavy and this both helps and hurts you. Helps get through drifts, but hurts when the bottom drops out and you're trying to free one. If there's not going to be another competent vehicle trying at the same time, I wouldn't go for it with your tires unless the snow's under 2 feet deep. With the right (wrong) snow conditions you can get mired pretty hopelessly. I've spent 8 hours in a group of competent chained up rigs going 4 miles on a trail, so consider how ambitious you want to be and if you're willing to have getting your rig unstuck become 50% of the event's time and energy for several in the group. Finally, watch out for overheating in deep snow and high range, drag your brakes from time to time, and remove the spare or you'll spend a lot of time digging under it. Oh, and bring a camera.....

DougM
 
I just wanted to comment on shovels. I once high-centered winchless in a drift in late Spring and thought, not a problem, I have a shovel. The problem was, it was a conventional pointed back-yard shovel, and the steep angle of the head meant that I couldn't reach more than 18 inches or so under the truck. Any further and the blade would just skate over the surface of the snow. That made it very hard to free the truck.

I found an angled shovel handle at Ace Hardware and installed that in place of the straight handle. That straightened out the blade significantly, making it much easier to use for digging out a bogged vehicle. It also makes it easier to stow. Downside is that it doesn't work as well digging a hole in the ground or for simply shifting material.

A snow shovel should already have a low enough blade angle that this won't be an issue, but be aware of the perils of excavating with a regular unaltered shovel.

Be careful, and bring good radio gear. Got Ham?

John Davies
Spokane WA
 
I am going for my Ham this year. Yaesu has a little portable 2M with a strobe and automated emergency signal I was looking at to get started with. I have a friend that lives and breathes Ham that is going to help me out.

With all this advice, I think I'll let the snowmobiles do all the work from where it gets tough to the campsite. I'll play some, but we certainly have an agenda while we are out, and unsticking me because I have more testosterone than sense isn't on the list of to-do's. Rumor has it the snow can be in excess of 4'.

I have one of those folding military shovels. Small head, but pretty useful. I'll bring another conventional shovel for moving lot's of material.

I like IdahoDoug's rule of last one stuck is a rotten egg. Certainly an incentive to be more responsible.

Has anyone had luck / success with putting something down on the trail for traction when stuck in the snow, like sand or logs or ATV Ramp, or??? Or does all this just sink in to the snow?
 
I was up on bald moutain in sierras a couple weeks ago. your best help on a snow run is the advice of someone else who has done the run you are about to do in the conditions you are about to attempt. if you dont have that its a crap shoot unless your rig is badass. talk to people.
bring a nice hefty cumalong. its just a real cheap, real slow winch
bring a snatch strap (like an arb) as they are great in the snow. cheap harbor freight job doesn't "bounce" and is not nearly as effective. try yanking your cruiser out behind the f250 with 10 feet of slack behing that $20 HARBOR FREIGHT strap-you may loose your dentures. the arb is a soft "boing".

if you get to the trail and there are other trucks around be sure to ask questions

not all soft snow is easy to traverse. if the snow is "sugar" soft it does no pack but acts like sand (best way to describe it). in such cases with your rig you should turn around now. once you experience it you will never forget it

having been an eagle scout and a scoutmaster its always good to do a gear check before you leave. that kid with flanel pants and tennis shoes aint comming
 
Dusty said:
...having been an eagle scout and a scoutmaster its always good to do a gear check before you leave. that kid with flanel pants and tennis shoes aint coming
Click to expand...

:D:D:D
I was their scout leader a year ago and trained them exactly to that rule. Be prepared for it or stay home. With that said, there's always the kid that can't afford the good stuff and we always help him out a bit. These kids are 16 and over and have been through some pretty good experience. The nice thing is, I'm not their official leader now, I'm just coming along for fun and to be an extra adult. Should be good times.

I'll have too look in to that ARB snatch strap. Sounds nice.
 
Surprisingly, snow stucks benefit more than any other surface with having brush, large surface area things like floormats and chunks of wood. Snow stucks are kind of smooshy-barely-unable-to-move things versus banging onto a dirt berm or high centering on a rock. With snow stucks, you're always high centered, but seem to be only a few hundred pounds of ground pressure on the tires from being able to move. High centering on dirt or rock, you may be half a ton or more away from generating sufficient ground pressure to pull away. So yeah, piling brush and stuff works quite readily on snow stucks. Provided you've obeyed rule #1 which is when the truck stops moving forward IMMEDIATELY try reversing slightly and NEVER spin the wheels at rest. Wheel spin on snow simply drops your frame onto the snow where the heat will quickly form a perfect mold of your underside and harden into a beautiful snare. The quick reverse (even 6 inches) gets you back away from the wall you were pushing before the snow sets up in the holes the tires are sitting in when you stop. Then you fill the holes and the 6 inches of momentum let the truck punch through the wall where you stopped and you're off like a turtle for another 30 feet. There's a rythm to it. Haffi you should chime in here - this is your stuff, man!!!

DougM
 
the no spin then rock back trick is key. it only works if you got rour head out the window so you can see the tires. sometimes its only an extra inch foraward then stop...then you go an extra inch back and stop...soon you have packed down 8 feet of snow and can get some momentum to pop through the spot that orriginally caught ya. I hate doing this...thats why I need those 36" iroks.

about 4psi on beadlocks wouldn't hurt either
 
stuck jeep
snow.webp
snow2.webp
 
I'm just learning about trails with snow.

With the heavy, wet snow around here, we air down to 12PSI or lower and try to stay on top and not slide sideways off the trail. Lockers help going straight, but once you're sideways, they'll keep you sideways. Once you've slid into a hole, you can hi-lift and pack snow under your wheels so that you can drive or be pulled out. A pile of tow-strap makes a good base for a hi-lift. There can never be too many shovels. Chains help you get past the small stucks and into a big stuck.

We had fun in the snow a couple weekends ago - https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=129656 - spent over 2 hours getting every one turned around in 39" of snow. The lead Cruiser had chains and had the worst stuck; the 2'nd rig got stuck trying to tug him out; the 3'rd truck slid off the trail trying to tug the 2'nd one out; 4'th Cruiser slid off the trail just after freeing the 3'rd truck. It was the shovels and hi-lift that got us out. The tow straps came in handy later to pull tobogans. The previous weekend it was a dig and winch fest - https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=128444

Keep safe and have fun, -Steve
 
Thanks for the pics, Dusty. A picture is worth 1000. Compared to what I've been set up to expect from this trip the snow in your pics isn't very deep, and that Jeep obviously has bigger tires and a lift, which I do not.

Shovels, Hi-Lift, 30' tow strap, and a come-along are going. I might need to wait to make the $75 purchase of an ARB snatch strap until I plan more trips. (Famous last words. Hindsight will say $75 was nothing compared to the misery I went through without it.)

Thanks for the links guys.
 
The snatch (designed to stretch and rebound) strap is by far the best connection to use in snow, where chains and rope are nearly worthless. This is because with a chain you pull it tight and then use power and traction to pull on the stuck. In snow, you'll just spin your wheels and have two stuck trucks because there's no way a 2nd vehicle on snow will have enough traction to move begin moving both itself and the other vehicle from full stop. The snatch strap allows the mobile vehicle to hit the end of the strap at a walking speed, yank the other truck loose and they both (hopefully) keep moving. So yes, get a snatch type recovery strap and be sure to ask because not all straps are designed for this. I have a military strap that probably has a breaking strength in the 70,000lb range and it feels like a chain - zero stretch - with a couple measly 6000lb trucks. It's actually useless but I received it as a practical joke so it's fun.

DougM
 
If you cant afford the snatch block do the white trash way and bring along a small "old" tire that is in decent condition. Tie it in between two tow ropes and yank away! It will cushin the yank and neither one of you will feel the jerk. Just make sure the tire isnt gonna rip in half:o
 
IdahoDoug said:
The snatch (designed to stretch and rebound) strap is by far the best connection to use in snow, where chains and rope are nearly worthless. This is because with a chain you pull it tight and then use power and traction to pull on the stuck. In snow, you'll just spin your wheels and have two stuck trucks because there's no way a 2nd vehicle on snow will have enough traction to move begin moving both itself and the other vehicle from full stop. The snatch strap allows the mobile vehicle to hit the end of the strap at a walking speed, yank the other truck loose and they both (hopefully) keep moving. So yes, get a snatch type recovery strap and be sure to ask because not all straps are designed for this. I have a military strap that probably has a breaking strength in the 70,000lb range and it feels like a chain - zero stretch - with a couple measly 6000lb trucks. It's actually useless but I received it as a practical joke so it's fun.

DougM
Click to expand...



use it a tree strap?
 
Jason Andrews said:
If you cant afford the snatch block do the white trash way and bring along a small "old" tire that is in decent condition. Tie it in between two tow ropes and yank away! It will cushin the yank and neither one of you will feel the jerk. Just make sure the tire isnt gonna rip in half:o
Click to expand...

I wonder how resilient a boy scout is? Hmmm...no, no, never mind. Bad idea. I'm sure the tire would work better. :doh:
 
MDarius said:
I wonder how resilient a boy scout is? Hmmm...no, no, never mind. Bad idea. I'm sure the tire would work better. :doh:
Click to expand...

I can't believe those boys are gettin' snowmobiles. Back in my Eagle Scout day (and I am only in my 30's mind you), we had to trudge through four feet of snow uphill, both ways, with those tacky not-even-close-to-waterproof boots everybody wore.

OK, I was in the mid-Atlantic at the time, so it really wasn't that bad, but I'm seeing 60 lb packs, 33" snowshoes, and lots of falling down and pain, not snowmobiles. Sounds like a great time! :grinpimp:
 
Well, the weekend is over and I didn't so much as get off the pavement. The road was groomed and I was politely asked to leave it that way for the snowmobiles. I guess a month ago a Hummer tried it and got stuck not too far up the trail. They had to use a snowcat to pull him out and it was he** to fix the trail. It was an awesome weekend with search and rescue. Life flight came in and we did some touring of the helicopter and learned how to guide them in properly. We had staged victimes around the camp and the scouts went with the teams to locate, assess, stabilize and transport. We had more scouts on the triage medical team at the lodge. I got to ride in the snow cat as transport team 3. I even had the privilege of riding with the victim in the cargo box. The driver said to me, ''I've never carried a live one back there. It should be interesting.'' It was. Totally dark, being thrown all over the place, trying to keep the victim that was strapped on the back board from going through the door. I was like a martini...shaken, not stirred. The search dogs did a great job. An excellent experience all around.

Here's a link to the pics if you are interested. Thanks again for the tips. I hope to use them all soon.

http://picasaweb.google.com/foutsm/07Bartlett

Matt
 
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