Sleeving vs new rings

[scuba steve]

I'm a beginner when it comes to internal engine knowledge, so I apologize if my terms or wording is a little off.
To start off, I'm talking 1hdt.
Recently, my power starting decreasing on drives, startups in the morning became smokier, and my blow by seems to have increased, spitting up more oil than before.
I'm guessing at least one of my pistons has not enough compression.
Anyways, point of this... What are my options; Sleeving or replacing rings on just the one piston.
School me on these options and what is the better way to go?
Thanks mudders!

 

[roscoFJ73]

Replacing a ring only never works in the long term,not from my experience anyway.
Once the cross hatcheting pattern is worn off the cyl wall,not much can save it.

I would do a full compression test ,there may be more than one bad cylinder. Then look at the options.
The best option would be to do the whole engine.
You can get a complete engine kit for $1200 or so and you would have labour and machining costs on top.

How many klms has it done?

 

[Eric Winkworth]

X2 on what he said... Even on over powered 2 strokes that go through top ends like gasoline... A set of rings will never bed in right without crosshatching...

If the cylinder is still round and within spec you can sometimes get away with a light hone to break the glaze so the new rings will bed in... That being said on a diesel with high compression numbers things being as perfect as possible is a very good idea... My vote is sleeves and rings... The pistons need inspecting also...

As Rosco said the best option for someone that isn't knowledgeable with rebuilding, is to take it too a good machine shop! Or to source a replacement engine with good compression numbers and the lowest km's on it possible...

 

[scuba steve]

Thanks for the replies guys.
So, is sleeving close to the same amount of work?
Seems like once you're in there anyways to install new rings, just easy enough to plug in the sleeve, fit the piston and rings, and be done with it.
Correct me of I'm wrong though. Still a little confused.
In a perfect world just rings would work, if the cylinder doesn't look too bad.

FYI

The truck has just over 300kms on her.

 

[amaurer]

The sleeves will need to be machined after installation, as I understand it... so the block would have to come out and go to a machine shop.

 

[scuba steve]

Can anyone else verify this; that the sleeve would still need to be machines after the fact?

 

[Tapage]

Can anyone else verify this; that the sleeve would still need to be machines after the fact?

in my books yes .. and actually to install 'em ..

 

[roscoFJ73]

in my books yes .. and actually to install 'em ..

Exactly,the cyl will have to be bored out to take the diameter of the sleeve so you can get it to a standard or oversize piston and ring size.
You dont even need a sleeve if the wear on the cyl wall is not bad,you can just hone it out and use the next size up.
But if one cyl is tired,the others wont be far behind and the load will be passed along to the next weakest link.
Its all about whether you want to do a patch up job or fix it once and for all.

 

[scuba steve]

Hey mudders;
Sorry to rise a dead thread.
My truck is starting to spew more and more oil out of the breather tube, and wanted to get a better understanding of the engine rebuild process.
If the cylinder walls aren't too damaged, can I have the walls honed with block still in the engine bay, and just have new rings/pistons put in and be done?
I kept being reverted back to having to machine the block to fit sleeves in. Seems like way more work.
Any suggestions/ideas/thoughts?
I've even thought about buying another cruiser with lesser km's swapping engines, and sell the other cruiser with a dead engine.
Cheers mudders!

 

[blis]

Hey mudders;
Sorry to rise a dead thread.
My truck is starting to spew more and more oil out of the breather tube, and wanted to get a better understanding of the engine rebuild process.
If the cylinder walls aren't too damaged, can I have the walls honed with block still in the engine bay, and just have new rings/pistons put in and be done?
I kept being reverted back to having to machine the block to fit sleeves in. Seems like way more work.
Any suggestions/ideas/thoughts?
I've even thought about buying another cruiser with lesser km's swapping engines, and sell the other cruiser with a dead engine.
Cheers mudders!

IN THEORY you can hone the cylinders by yourself while theyre inside the block but that would require alot of work covering up all the fine parts, crankshaft and such... At the very best new rings and honing the cylinders will give you maybe 50 000 km's or so of a life time.... That fact along with cost that is maybe 1/3 of total rebuild of engine I have hard time justifying such a repair job...

So, my personal opinion is that if you by any means can afford a proper rebuild of the engine you should go for it becouse that would give you half a million of worry free kilometers...

 

[Doorslammer]

you have a couple of options.

you can do an "inframe" freshen up.
first you can leave the engine in the car, remove the head, sump and pistons. measure the bores to check for wear (taper and out of round). if you are happy with the specs, tape up the rod journals and oil ports on the block and hone with a bottle brush hone. wash everything down well, replace the pistons and rings (or just the rings if your on a budget) replace the BEB's, get the head checked out (mag partical crack tested, pressure tested, have the valves checked for sealing) and throw it back together.

i have done several inframe rebuilds on both 1hx and td42 motors and they are quite easy. i also disagree that it will only give you maybe 50000km's. the first one i did is still going well after 200000km's...

the other option is to have it completely rebuilt, remove, teardown, inspect, have everything machined, bought back to specs.

as for sleeving, on a 1hd-t that does not have sleeves from factory (and thus you can only use a repair style sleeve), it is usually only done with a cracked block or severe failure, or when a engine is on its last oversize and needs to be bought back to std. eg you open it up and find you have 1mm oversize pistons, the block is then bored larger, a sleeve pressed in, the sleeve is then bored and honed to the correct piston size (usually std again). being a 1hd-t that is still running you should be able to just bore .50 - 1mm oversize, hone and use the appropriate pistons.

if only these engine had dry or wet sleeves...

 

[SHREDwagon]

Hey Scuba Steve -

Based on my own experience:
- compression test
- if bad, line up a competent machine shop
- pull engine
- source pistons or sleeves dependent on what your machinist says and rebuild kit from Engines Australia
-order OEM rear main, cam, main - basically any oil seals to replace aftermarket seals
- test head and or resurface

Avoid sleeves at all cost. Big machining $$$$.

If your head checks out and you reassemble the long block - a fair price is around 6k. But if you make any errors you'll be chasing oil leaks.

No other option really to do it proper unless you swap in a used motor.

Sorry to hear and best of luck....

Edit: if I were to do it again, I wouldn't. Just source a good replacement (if compression #'s are bad). Or, driver her out to ATEB and talk to John.....

 

[scuba steve]

Hi shred,

Thanks for the info;
I have thought about taking it to ATEB.
Any ideas what they would charge to do the job?
I'd rather spend the time to drive out there and get the job dive right, than some clowns that have no idea about a Toyota engine.

Cheers

 

[SHREDwagon]

You'd need to call him. But, it would be quite a bit more paying someone else to pull the motor, clean and reassemble the long block and then reinstall.

A couple of months ago I saw on LCOOL someone had HD-T crate motor's for 6k AUD + shipping. Short blocks. Might want to check it out on that site.

Also, I've seen used blocks come up on a Japanese site for around $4500 CAD. That's with IP and Turbo. There are deals, but you have to have time and be patient.

Something to consider If you have a garage and tools.

Otherwise, ATEB or 4wheel Auto would be good bets. The latter has a rebuilder that deals with alot of HZ mine engines. Could pull and deliver the motor.

But, test compression first and spend $40 to get an oil analysis. Also, any good machinist will be able to tell you what's going on listening to the engine run with a stethoscope.

 

[roscoFJ73]

Machinists in australia only fit sleeves if the bore is so badly worn or grooved that it can not be machined out.

 

[wrongway around]

diagnose,diagnose,diagnose,it is not that much for a complete set of factory pistons with rings could be wrong but thought it was 700 or so for the set. barring a big goug, its an in frame hone ,and head check, valve resurface. if your going to ateb i would call them first and get the worst case senario limits, they can only put so many trucks in their shop ,i had to wait a bit for my piston set to come in from japan. i did not even need it but wanted to start fresh being it was not that pricey. they can also just refit the hooped one with a used one if that is your budget without jepardising the quality. i highly recomend ateb for the job ,they have done nothing but excellent work on my trucks from maintanance to industry leading r&d. assumeing you have done the tests to determine it is the rings , psi numbers are??????

 

[simonliew]

l just rebuilt 2 1HDT,if the cylinders r not too worn out,you can bore it out to 0.50 over ,or sleeve it if its too worn out,l have to sleeve one of the bore because it was really worn....

 

[rustybucket]

All this talk about partial and full rebuild of a 3b makes me want to get involved even if I provide my labor for free.

Done my share of long block change outs with gas engines. Some frustrating experiences but well learned due to bad parts.

I would prefer to be involved in a 3b tear down from some one who is experienced so, the day comes, when I can do my own. Just do not know of anyone at this moment in the Vancouver region who would be involved.

Now, as far as the 3b motor, what parts typically wear faster, and require change outs after the engine is nearing its end in service before it makes more sense to do a total rebuild?

When I did lots of work on the big domestic three in the 1990s, GM v6 had some issues with con rod bearings failing before anything else in the block.