Skinny 35's vs. 34's?

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Skinny elongates more aired down. Elongation provides more incremental area than widening when aired down.
At least that’s my theory :beer:

We should probably take tracings and put some science behind this debate.
I believe that was the conclusion that Overland Journal got years ago in their skinny tire test.

My opinion, I would put other factors into consideration before basing a build around a rare tire size - I would pick the tread and load rating I liked most and then figure out the size. You never know when you might need to replace a tire in a small town, or worse with supply chain issues these days - the weird size you need is backordered for 6 months and now you have 3 useless tires.

And it depends on if you're getting tires for looks or utility. If you're offroading I'd take a reliable mud terrain like a Toyo M/T in a smaller size vs a slightly larger "tall skinny 35" with a more mild tread pattern, even if it meant that I sat a little lower. There aren't many trails I've experienced here in Utah where 34 vs 35 mattered too much. It's more like you can do 90% of trails in Utah with 33-35s - and the remaining 10% very quickly escalates to 37s then 40s then buggy territory.

I started out with 34s on my 100, moved to 35s, and now I'm back to 33s on both my 200 and my Tacoma, and it gets me to just about everywhere I used to go... the lack of armor and an unwillingness to scratch up my paint holds me back more than a 1/2" height difference in tires.
 
Contact patch math. (I just found this so not something I've used before.)

Tire #1 is the 35 x 10.5 x 17 and Tire #2 is the 285 x 70 x 18 (aka the 34"x 11.6 x 18)

So the 35 has a tire patch of 407 and the 34 has 468.

Air down increases 80% length and 20% width .. so seeing the length is the same .. and the 34 is wider the 34 will have the larger contact patch when aired down also.


tire-contact-patch.JPG



I like what was said above .. if traveling go with a common tire. If I was going into snow I would go skinner and smaller so I had room for cables or chains.
 
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Mainly run the 35" for the additional natural lift aired down, run the RT tread as of the P, AT, and RT tread I've had, I liked the RT best.
Not too worried about rare size, as in the US 35x12.5r17 is pretty common, and I can always put a 12.5 on the rear and swap that tire to a front if I need a 6th and 7th tire in an emergency replacement scenario.
Agree that for extended ex-US travel a common size 17" is the way to roll.
 

Best video I have ever seen on the subject...

I was gonna post this nigel thornberry video but you already had it!

Jokes aside, and core argument aside as well, i am wondering which of the twos contact patch can be altered the most.

That is to say, on a skinny tall can i have the least rolling resistance on road aired all the way up for efficiency while also capturing 90% of the aired down footprint for off road use of the wider setup. That may be an interesting function to have as i do know the wider tire will hurt efficiency more with calculated milage parity, aside from any added drag being taller.

Saying this since im contemplating my next setup and will def be going to a 34”
 
The length of the contact patch and be made 80% longer and the width 20% wider in most cases.

So you can use this link to calculate your contact patch .. sort of as different makes and types of tires are different.

BND TechSource - Tire Data Calculator
 
Maybe time to take another look at this debate, which could easily be settled by a little science. Unfortunately, most folks think that their anecdotal, i.e. personal experience is the same thing and, honestly, it’s not. Maybe you’ve run wide tires and they’ve worked well. Perhaps you’ve run skinnier tires and had similar results. Until we have some well-designed studies on both, and those may be available, or so I hear, it’s all just stories around the campfire.

In my decidedly unscientific experience, based on the vehicles, terrain, weather, etc. (Pacific Northwest Rainforest, central Oregon high desert) that I’ve experienced over the years, I prefer skinnier tires in nearly all cases. My inexpert feeling is that huge wide tires are more for show than go. They look great, if you’re into that, but have you ever noticed what sort of tires are used in parts of the world where off-road is often the only road? Wide heavy tires come with a whole host of problems, often associated with the exponential increase in rotational mass. Skinny tires weigh less and from what I’ve read in articles by tire designers and others I respect, don’t give up much in traction. That has also been my experience.

In 2000, I bought a new Disco 2. Great vehicle…when it wasn’t in the shop. Almost immediately I installed 33” tires that were about the same width as the stock tires. Going to the larger diameter quickly resulted in somewhat degraded braking and handling on road, -as one would expect - but gave me better traction off-road, so the trade-off was acceptable. However as time went by, I did some more reading and research on how tires work and discovered that much of what I had thought of as “self-evident” was not supported by the evidence of actual tire testing by folks who do that sort of thing for a living.

I decided to do an experiment of my own, again not scientific, but just to compare against my own experience. When the 33s were pretty won out, I mounted up a set of 235-85/16E Goodyear MT/Rs. If I remember right, they were about 7.5 or so inches in width, compared to the old tires that were between 10 and 11. The result was interesting. On-road, braking actually seemed to improve. Mileage improved incrementally, but there was more side-to-side motion which I attribute to the quite tall sidewalls on 16x6” steel rims.

Off-road was a revelation. Compared to the wider MT/Rs that I had been running previously, there was no degradation of traction that I could identify. Every time I thought I might reach the pizza cutter’s limits, they just kept going. On more than one occassion, I’ve pulled large pickups with 37s and larger off the beach, out of the mud and out of the snow. I never had one come off the bead despite airing down to 6 or 7 psi. If I had a dollar for every time someone told me, “You’ll never make on those cute little tires!” I’d have a vacation home in Moab.

This is just my experience based on my recreational off-roading and search and rescue operations going back 35 years, or so. (Our Ford SAR trucks all had skinny mudders or A/T tires), so results will almost certainly vary. Currently, I’m running 285/75-16E Goodyear Duratracs on my 100 series, but only because they have to fit on the stock 16x8” Toyota wheels.
 
Hmm, I might have to swap out a few suspension parts as well…
 
Maybe time to take another look at this debate, which could easily be settled by a little science. Unfortunately, most folks think that their anecdotal, i.e. personal experience is the same thing and, honestly, it’s not. Maybe you’ve run wide tires and they’ve worked well. Perhaps you’ve run skinnier tires and had similar results. Until we have some well-designed studies on both, and those may be available, or so I hear, it’s all just stories around the campfire.

In my decidedly unscientific experience, based on the vehicles, terrain, weather, etc. (Pacific Northwest Rainforest, central Oregon high desert) that I’ve experienced over the years, I prefer skinnier tires in nearly all cases. My inexpert feeling is that huge wide tires are more for show than go. They look great, if you’re into that, but have you ever noticed what sort of tires are used in parts of the world where off-road is often the only road? Wide heavy tires come with a whole host of problems, often associated with the exponential increase in rotational mass. Skinny tires weigh less and from what I’ve read in articles by tire designers and others I respect, don’t give up much in traction. That has also been my experience.

In 2000, I bought a new Disco 2. Great vehicle…when it wasn’t in the shop. Almost immediately I installed 33” tires that were about the same width as the stock tires. Going to the larger diameter quickly resulted in somewhat degraded braking and handling on road, -as one would expect - but gave me better traction off-road, so the trade-off was acceptable. However as time went by, I did some more reading and research on how tires work and discovered that much of what I had thought of as “self-evident” was not supported by the evidence of actual tire testing by folks who do that sort of thing for a living.

I decided to do an experiment of my own, again not scientific, but just to compare against my own experience. When the 33s were pretty won out, I mounted up a set of 235-85/16E Goodyear MT/Rs. If I remember right, they were about 7.5 or so inches in width, compared to the old tires that were between 10 and 11. The result was interesting. On-road, braking actually seemed to improve. Mileage improved incrementally, but there was more side-to-side motion which I attribute to the quite tall sidewalls on 16x6” steel rims.

Off-road was a revelation. Compared to the wider MT/Rs that I had been running previously, there was no degradation of traction that I could identify. Every time I thought I might reach the pizza cutter’s limits, they just kept going. On more than one occassion, I’ve pulled large pickups with 37s and larger off the beach, out of the mud and out of the snow. I never had one come off the bead despite airing down to 6 or 7 psi. If I had a dollar for every time someone told me, “You’ll never make on those cute little tires!” I’d have a vacation home in Moab.

This is just my experience based on my recreational off-roading and search and rescue operations going back 35 years, or so. (Our Ford SAR trucks all had skinny mudders or A/T tires), so results will almost certainly vary. Currently, I’m running 285/75-16E Goodyear Duratracs on my 100 series, but only because they have to fit on the stock 16x8” Toyota wheels.

It would seem to be a self evident conclusion with simple narratives like this. But it is not. And it is these anecdotes that drive false conclusions. The problem is more complex than this. You can't draw conclusions when supporting mods for big tires are not done for comparison like re-gearing, brakes, power, etc. Fair, it is still useful to individuals because it is tailored to how each may like to use their car.

I'll parrot this again, the best conclusion one can draw is to look at OEMs and the performance trims. Even as efficiency and MPG is important, they don't fit skinnies. They have to deliver objective and balanced results. You'll only find full fat tires on Braptors, Raptors, TRXs, 392s... They come setup with the requisite power to turn and use big tires in every possible dynamic way different customers might use them.

Cars not not tractors and need to corner, brake, sidehills, all at speed, on-road and off-road.
 
It would seem to be a self evident conclusion with simple narratives like this. But it is not. And it is these anecdotes that drive false conclusions. The problem is more complex than this. You can't draw conclusions when supporting mods for big tires are not done for comparison like re-gearing, brakes, power, etc. Fair, it is still useful to individuals because it is tailored to how each may like to use their car.

I'll parrot this again, the best conclusion one can draw is to look at OEMs and the performance trims. Even as efficiency and MPG is important, they don't fit skinnies. They have to deliver objective and balanced results. You'll only find full fat tires on Braptors, Raptors, TRXs, 392s... They come setup with the requisite power to turn and use big tires in every possible dynamic way different customers might use them.

Cars not not tractors and need to corner, brake, sidehills, all at speed, on-road and off-road.
Or people want to buy those wide tires cause they look good, and oems are looking to extract extra margin.
 
Or people want to buy those wide tires cause they look good, and oems are looking to extract extra margin.

However you want to look at it.

The reality is that performance cars run performance sized rubber. Whether all drivers will take advantage of that is another question.
 
Hmm, I might have to swap out a few suspension parts as well…


Those Score Trophy trucks are just amazing. I've worked on some of them.

Many of them run BFG Baja T/A KR3 tires. 40 x 12.5. They are $$ though, about $900 each. $5400 for a set with 2 spares.
Purpose performance tire.

Not good for daily driving thought. I got a set for free and put them on my daily driver chase truck. I would have to drive about 5 miles to get the flat spot out from sitting over night. Bump, bump, bump for 5 miles.. LOL
 
If you watch all the way to the end, he concluded the wide tires were better, and it was tire compound that mattered most.
have watched it a few times, and the tyres he tried at the end were comparable (similar results) to the skinnies... I did ask him in the chat to compare the additional tyres as this was outside the testing framework and more testing needed to be carried out. No reply as of yet..lol...
 
have watched it a few times, and the tyres he tried at the end were comparable (similar results) to the skinnies... I did ask him in the chat to compare the additional tyres as this was outside the testing framework and more testing needed to be carried out. No reply as of yet..lol...

Yes I meant the wide KM3., not the wide Baja.

"My KM3, was truly the best of both worlds."
 
This is probably the most objective (if a bit dry) analysis I've seen on this topic. Doesn't really give a definitive answer as much as discussing the pros and cons of each.

 
If you watch all the way to the end, he concluded the wide tires were better, and it was tire compound that mattered most.
Actually, he didn’t. He never compared his KM3s with a narrower version of the same tire. So what you basically have is an apples to oranges comparison. Perhaps had he done so the results would have been the same, but as he didn’t we’re still waiting to find out.
 
If you watch all the way to the end, he concluded the wide tires were better, and it was tire compound that mattered most.
I think what you’re referring to is carcase construction not compound. Nothing in his demonstration tested tread compound. But your point that it was something of an apples to oranges test is valid.
 
It would seem to be a self evident conclusion with simple narratives like this. But it is not. And it is these anecdotes that drive false conclusions. The problem is more complex than this. You can't draw conclusions when supporting mods for big tires are not done for comparison like re-gearing, brakes, power, etc. Fair, it is still useful to individuals because it is tailored to how each may like to use their car.

I'll parrot this again, the best conclusion one can draw is to look at OEMs and the performance trims. Even as efficiency and MPG is important, they don't fit skinnies. They have to deliver objective and balanced results. You'll only find full fat tires on Braptors, Raptors, TRXs, 392s... They come setup with the requisite power to turn and use big tires in every possible dynamic way different customers might use them.

Cars not not tractors and need to corner, brake, sidehills, all at speed, on-road and off-road.
Auto manufacturers do a lot of things that sell cars, but don’t necessarily measure up when it comes to absolute performance. In my post I thought I was pretty clear that my anecdote was just that, my own experience and nothing more. That it tended to support the notion that skinnier tires can perform better than conventional wisdom is also just my experience.

Having said that there seems to be a lot of folks who run wide tires, get good results and thus claim that wide tires are best. In reality all they’ve done is show that wide tires work without comparison to any alternative. That’s not a very scientific, or valid test. It’s like a person who’s only ever drank Hamm’s beer. They may be used to that and like the taste, but because they’ve never explored other options, can they authoritatively state that Hamm’s is a good beer, let alone the best? You decide.

We all make decisions based on multiple factors, often ones that conflict with each other. I don’t claim to be any different. Again my results are simply my own and have no real scientific rigor, but I’ll keep running skinnier tires as they’ve worked as well for my as any comparable wide tires.
 

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