Side Crash Protection

[JF757]

Have observed lots of teenagers, illegals, and extreme elderly on the road lately whose driving skills belong at home behind a video game screen. For the safety of the driver and an occupied child seat located in the middle of the back row, is a 1997 80 series cruiser as safe as a year 2000 100 series in regards to a side impact of aprox 45mph? Would adding slee type sliders add any additional protection in this regard?

Thoughtful opinions requested.

 

[Grench]

Thats a bit of a loaded question.

IMHO there is no road vehicle that is 'safe' in a 45 mph side impact from anything bigger than a moped. Heck, I don't even want to try that head on.

Check out what the experts say.
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/side_test_info.html

Their test is at 31 mph with a 3300 lb simulated vehicle and they call it 'severe'.

So, IMHO (non-expert), the answer is, 'yes, it is as safe as,' but only because no vehicle is, 'safe,' at those impact speeds and survivability may be reduced to, 'dumb luck.' Curtain air bags may help, but IIRC the 2000 didn't have those either.

 

[IdahoDoug]

Interesting question. As for 100 w/o side airbags vs 80 series it's impossible to say. This is not a copout, but a lot happens in a side impact that could give the advantage to the 100's more recent design in terms of energy management in crashes. Or it could give the advantage to the 80 due to some frame strength which is heavier than needed in the side area due to old design techniques that would play out in a crash. The only proper conclusion would be either a tie or victory to the 100 for its newer design that is still body on frame.

As for sliders, again impossible to say. At impact forces high enough that added steel down there would factor into reducing penetration of another vehicle enough it would reduce injury, a lot happens. Would the sliders reduce injury, or would they cause the truck to be so stiff it flipped? Without the sliders would the occupant accelleration be reduced because the truck is 'softer' in the sides? Would the vehicle hitting you be stopped just short of injuring an occupant by the added slider strenght? At just the right angle would a bolt on slider come loose and punch a hole in the fuel tank or tear the fuel line? Too many variables. I'd say that any added side strength is going to help, but there's a lot to it. I'm considering adding them for side impact protection myself, so have run through it a bit mentally.

I think you can also add a margin of safety by having fresh factory shocks, well serviced brakes, always have lights on even in the day, and keep tires on the truck suited to emergency maneuvers and braking maximums. Atop that, securing loose items in the vehicle, buying only high end child seats (Britax) and being anal about installing them correctly will pay dividends. I do all that, plus have a rescue tool bolted to the center console and a serious first aid kit aboard.

DougM

 

[jditom]

My 100 has side seat bags and side curtain bags. And 96 on had to have side door renforcement. So yes the 100 would do better. But my 80 has Hanna sliders which would be like hitting a brick wall so it's a toss up

 

[mainemike]

I'd have to give the newer cruiser the advantage just based on Toyota engineering. But how much so is impossible to say. Side impact air curtains are a huge advantage - even in a smaller vehicle I'd give that potential 'cocoon' an advantage over a larger, non-bagged vehicle. A 100 series LC with side bags has to rank as one of the safest options....exoskeletons aside.

But the variables are too great to predict. If a Civic hits either year Cruiser we like to think the Cruiser occupants will be safe. But if that Civic hits us at 50, 70mph or more it will probably end up inside the Cruiser... displacing any and all occupants in a most messy way. Motorcycles have a nasty way of dissecting vehicles when they centerpucnch them at high speed.

Sliders may not be an advantage because it may alter the trajectory of the approaching vehicle upwards, which is less than ideal. Sliders are only designed to protect rocker panels.

If a vehicle equal to or larger than a Cruiser hits you all bets are off. Most modern cars are designed around crumple zones and air bags; but speed and physics change everything in the dynamics of an accident situation.

Just be careful out there, the laws of physics are always dancing with the stupidity of the masses.

 

[firetruck41]

FWIW, the 80 added side impact beams in the doors in 95 or 96, so a later model 80 would probably fare better than earlier model in a side impact.

 

[gray]

Anything that you would add that would need to be bent before the other vehicle contacts the door, etc
would theoretically absorb energy, so less to go into the occupants; however,
if the thing you add to the side then breaks, instead of bending, it can become a missle
that could then enter the passenger compartment, which could be a worse outcome.

Any side impact is a bad deal; as even if the passenger is not struck directly,
the lateral forces ie: on the neck could fracture the cervical spine(sideways whiplash) and tear internal organs from the acceleration forces. A small childs neck has more "play"(more flexible) so they are a bit less likely to get a fractured neck from a crash; depends on the scenario.

Having said this, it does depend on the mass of the object being stuck and the mass of
the object doing the striking; basic physics;

ie: if you are in a three ton LC and someone in a Dodge Neon strikes you, the Neon will lose;
just half the mass of the LC.
On the other hand, if you are T-boned by a Semi; then no amount of extra metal or airbags
are gonna make much of a difference. The semi driver gets a sore thumb and you get a toe tag.

I have driven LC's all over the world, and have seen what damage can be caused by roll-overs, etc,etc.

I have seen Mercedes G-Wagons ($120,000) fold up in a rollover, same with full size Land Rovers;
not so with the LC's; sure the doors and the roof get a bit bent, but you could drive away from
a complete rollover; I have seen it happen.

I can attest that if I had a choice to be in a LC or any other vehicle, with comparable safety features,
I would pick the LC hands down everytime. Side curtain airbags do work for the person sitting next to the door, just have to buy a newer LC for that level of protection.

To protect a child, I would buy the biggest baddest carseat on the market, read the instructions,
and install it properly; as you said, in the center rear seat.

 

[brownbear]

in the center rear seat.

I cut too much of your quote

So what do you do when you have 3 kids in car seats? which one do you place in the middle...


an 80 is pretty heavy solid vehicle. a pair of slider/steps would help IMOP. Also a lift. Shear that fawk head on the crotchrocket in half..

 

[IdahoDoug]

With kids, the answer is actually easy in terms of protection. Obviously, do what you can to drive a tank, but Gray's points on the impact effects on the body are spot on. So the answer with the kids is to buy the expensive and heavy Britax car seats. They're around $250 a pop versus Kmart stuff for $120 though I've seen some of the lower line Britax seats at Kmarts/Target et al. Generally you'll have to mail order one to get the rock n' roll models. They have built in side impact that's designed to control the child's head and neck and they have side wings for rib and hip protection. For rear impacts, they use engineered foam like football helmets to protect the spine, and for frontal impacts they use 5 point harnesses with panels to spread the strap loads around a bit. They're heavy and a pain in the ass, but they're German engineered and you can roll your Cruiser into a ball and the responders will find your kids alive.

I got to see graphically what a large SUV can take in a side impact a few years back. In line behind a then-new white Suburban at a stop sign, I watched as the driver pulled out and got clobbered from the driver's side by two teenagers in a compact pickup truck. The teenager never saw the new stop sign for his direction, which was about 2 weeks old and was probably doing 30. The Suburban took on a heavy list, slid sideways about 2 feet and leveled itself. I had not even taken the Suburban's place at the stop sign yet, and the driver immediately shifted to reverse and backed up a carlength to where he began - no tires rubbing the body or anything.

Then all 4 doors opened and 7 people got out and stood there rubbing various body parts and looking incredulously at each other with no injuries. The 'burb got pegged dead center in the B pillar and both doors were pushed in about a foot, yet no glass was broken. The roof was pushed up from the B pillar being straightened versus the C shape it had but the doors opened normally. The pickup was puking two different colors of fluids, the front wheels were crow feet a bit, and it had to be towed. Both teens were injured from seatbelt impact and leg injuries, but nothing permanent.

So they'll take a shot. IMHO, the real vulnerability of any SUV including the 80 is being bounced out of control and leaving the roadway where they'll easily flip. Or being flipped from the initial impact where a small car going under the rockers can easily lift the wheels off the ground. Best defense against either scenario? A stock truck with fresh stock shock absorbers and quality tires.

DougM

 

[jvazquez53]

My daughter just trashed her 92 FJ80, she managed to hit a steel post filled with concrete. The pole did not moved, however the cruiser held together pretty good, except for both driver and passenger doors. After this encounter, I would consider the LC a very safe vehicle. I don't think that sliders would have help on this case, maybe an exocage, but she likes her Cruiser stock.

 

[KCCruiser]

about placing the infant car seat in the middle of the back seat...you may get more side impact protection but keep in mind that in the middle position, with a front impact, that child and seat can come forward between the front seats. As previously stated, wherever you place your little ones, the best thing to do is buy the best car seat you can and secure it according to instructions.