Seating Rings 22RE (1 Viewer)

[fjdemon]

I have a 93 Toyota Truck with a 22RE. The motor was built about six months ago, but I haven't really had time to put many miles on it. I have right at 3,000. I changed the oil once so far in between 0-3000 miles. It seems the rings are taking forever to seat. My buddy who is a mechanic said this is common for the type of ring they offer on the rebuild kit, and he even said he had a guy that took six months of daily driving before his quit burning oil. Every seal on the engine is new, and I'm not leaking oil, but if I drive at highway speed I seem to lose a substantial amount of oil. I keep it monitored and it seems to have slowed down a little. Does anyone have a familiar experience or can verify what I have heard? I'm going to put some fresh oil in it when I get home and continue to drive it to see if it seals in time.

 

[bryan89]

i rebuilt mine and have about 3k miles on it as well.
granted i didnt measure the volume of oil when i drained it, but it appeared to be normal. did not notice any signs of high oil usage.
and it doesnt burn it out the exhaust either.


what brand rings did you use? what was your ring end gap?
i had total seal brand rings for use on hyper-eutectic pistons.

 

[fjfodee]

I've done 4 different engines, and the only one that took forever to seat was not honed correctly.

Did you check the piston to cylinder wall clearance? I'm pretty sure the maximum is .004

 

[snobdds]

Did you put in moly rings by any chance?

 

[fjdemon]

I didn't rebuild it. I had it rebuilt by a local mechanic. I believe he did it correctly, but then again you never know.... I can't remember if he said he used chrome or steel rings, but I do recall him saying that they took an extremely long time to seat 100% because of the ring material.

 

[snobdds]

Here is a very good read about rings and sealing. Lots of good info here...

85-95 22R 22RE Piston Ring sealing - YotaTech Forums

 

[fjdemon]

Here is a very good read about rings and sealing. Lots of good info here...

85-95 22R 22RE Piston Ring sealing - YotaTech Forums

Thanks, I actually just read that same article. It seems to be similar to the issue I am having, but not exactly. I did notice the oil was dark as night. Last I checked my rings seemed to be seating better than at first. I was losing oil and I could see smoke on the exhaust at first, leaving black spots on my gravel drive when parked at idle. It seemed to have cleared up the more I drive it, and appears to be burning less oil. I will do a fresh oil change and try again.... I'll document consumption vs driving. My father drives it to work sometimes while I am overseas, but he drives slow and doesn't appear to notice an issue. When I drive I'm cruising 65-70 mph and that is when I see the oil go down. I can only hope it clears up in the next few miles....

 

[fjdemon]

"Too fine a finish pattern with little or no peaks and valleys in the underlying pattern will cause a bore to burnish. If it does, the engine will consume oil for as much as 30-40K before finally wearing in. Too coarse of a finish and the results are very quick." wow

 

[fjfodee]

"Too fine a finish pattern with little or no peaks and valleys in the underlying pattern will cause a bore to burnish. If it does, the engine will consume oil for as much as 30-40K before finally wearing in. Too coarse of a finish and the results are very quick." wow

I bought a long block assembly a few years back that I had to tear down recently because of wrist pin slap. In the process I noticed that the cross hatch pattern was EXTREMELY course. Needles to say the rings were almost shot after only about 25K.

 

[fjdemon]

I bought a long block assembly a few years back that I had to tear down recently because of wrist pin slap. In the process I noticed that the cross hatch pattern was EXTREMELY course. Needles to say the rings were almost shot after only about 25K.

dang, no bueno

 

[fjdemon]

I felt this thread needed a picture. You may see this one on craigslist soon very cheap... lol j/k I love this truck. I did think about selling it but I won't feel right until these rings seat... should I decide to sell it. Oh well attempt two picture still odd...

 

[fjdemon]

Update for those interested. I was told to cut a square of cardboard that would fit in between my radiator and grill to get the temp up a bit and help seat the rings. I cut out of a thick piece of cardboard and then razor knifed a small V into it for airflow. I drove around for 2 days only getting my temperature up to halfway on the temp gauge and drover her like I stole her for that time. This seems to have seated my rings. I swapped in new oil and a new filter. I have only had to put about 3 ounces in it after 300+ miles of driving and the oil is not mysterious black anymore. It has maintained it's new oil appearance. Do this at your own risk, I monitored my temp as much as the road when I was driving around doing this. Any opinions on this technique? It seemed valid and seems to have done the trick with my pick up.

 

[bryan89]

Interesting....
a couple questions though.

how big a v did you cut in the cardboard for air to pass through? i cant imagine a half way blocked up radiator would only allow the temp gauge to get to half way. is it bitterly cold where you live?

if so i would imagine that would help...getting it up to normal operating temp. that would definitely be a reason to not seat your rings. (if it never ran at normal operating temp since rebuild) but if its running at the same temp as it was before with the cardboard blocking it, I dont understand what effect it might have had.
It also brings up the question, is your temp gauge working correctly?? i cant imagine blocking a significant portion of the radiator from air flow would have no effect on the operating temp of the engine....unless it is bitterly arss bit cold where you live.

it might be worth checking your block temperature via some other method to confirm the operation of your temp gauge. you could use thermo couples, or maybe one of those RF / laser dealies. hopefully you didnt over heat the piss out of it cause the gauge was reading wrong.

 

[fjdemon]

Interesting....
a couple questions though.

how big a v did you cut in the cardboard for air to pass through? i cant imagine a half way blocked up radiator would only allow the temp gauge to get to half way. is it bitterly cold where you live?

if so i would imagine that would help...getting it up to normal operating temp. that would definitely be a reason to not seat your rings. (if it never ran at normal operating temp since rebuild) but if its running at the same temp as it was before with the cardboard blocking it, I dont understand what effect it might have had.
It also brings up the question, is your temp gauge working correctly?? i cant imagine blocking a significant portion of the radiator from air flow would have no effect on the operating temp of the engine....unless it is bitterly arss bit cold where you live.

it might be worth checking your block temperature via some other method to confirm the operation of your temp gauge. you could use thermo couples, or maybe one of those RF / laser dealies. hopefully you didnt over heat the piss out of it cause the gauge was reading wrong.

I don't know if my cooling system is extremely good or if it is normal of this model truck, but at normal driving and operating temp it is only about 1/8" right of the cold mark.

I was told to start with a small "V" and adjust it accordingly to get the desired temp. I just cut about 1/2" width "V" pattern from top left down and back up to top right. I watched it super close and was careful, it only brought my gauge up to the halfway mark.

I was thinking my gauge might be malfunctioning, but it didn't smell hot the least bit. I need to check and see what thermostat is in it. I might run it by a friends and have him check the block temp with a digital reader.

I was in northeast Georgia, temps were around 50 F when I was there daily.

After I removed the cardboard it's running better than ever. I can actually feel it pull more up hill and I'm getting better mpg. Like I said I'd be extremely careful doing this, and I probably should have read the block temp as I did this in hindsight.

 

[fjdemon]

Here's the other thing. I bought this truck knowing the engine was shot, replaced it and have only put around 3k miles (if that many) on it since the rebuild so I don't know a lot about this vehicle. I'm learning little things as I put miles on it, like I think it's running extremely cool now.

 

[bryan89]

sounds like you might be ok, but your gauge seems to be reading a little low to me.

however, mine is 25 years old as well, but with a brand new engine build which included a hot dipped and cleaned block, new OEM radiator hoses all round, a heater core flush, a brand new OEM water pump, OEM 2 stage thermostat, and a brand new OEM radiator running toyotas reccomended "Red" coolant mixed 50-50 with distilled water, my temp gauge runs right at 1/3 of the way up during normal operation. maybe a needle width below 1/3. thats in charleston sc. so the climate is very similar. so i would imagine that is about as close to factory new as I could get, aside from a new temp gauge.

i think you might be okay,, but if it were me i would check the block temp with your gauge like it is. if its not too high, then i would try to recreate the cardboard situation and see what "half way" actually reads.

 

[fjdemon]

Yes, when I get back down to Georgia I will do that. Now I'm just curious to see what temp I'm running at. Do you by any chance know what temp you are running at the 1/3 mark? I'm thinking my thermostat might be stuck open and if that is the case I might be running around 150 which would be the reason why it reads so low and why when I blocked the airflow it only got it up to halfway.

 

[fjdemon]

I might be able to have my father drive it over to my friends and have them do a baseline reading on it at normal operating temp. I don't know if I can wait a few months to figure this one out!

 

[bryan89]

Yes, when I get back down to Georgia I will do that. Now I'm just curious to see what temp I'm running at. Do you by any chance know what temp you are running at the 1/3 mark? I'm thinking my thermostat might be stuck open and if that is the case I might be running around 150 which would be the reason why it reads so low and why when I blocked the airflow it only got it up to halfway.

unfortunately, i do not have that info. I never checked it cause with all my new parts, and the "normal" reading i got from the gauge i never suspected it to be wrong. I can check it at work some time next week if you need a comparison. we have thermocouple stuff. would be good info to document as well.

if your thermostat is stuck, that would make sense. but from my experience, the thermostat is rarely the problem. its just one of those things that people change when the have a cooling problem just because its cheap ya know? they are rarely actually the cause of the problem. if you do decide to change it though, it would be worth getting the two-stage thermostat from toyota. its a part update they made at some point to prevent temp gauge overshoot.

 

[fjdemon]

If you could Bryan, at your convenience, get a reading at normal operating temp and note the position your gauge is reading at. I'll try to do the same next week. I do plan on getting the 2 stage thermostat when I change it out, if I do indeed need it. I suspect I'm running cool, but again that is all assumption and I won't know until I get the reading.