School me on vertical mills,milling machines (1 Viewer)

[stevezero]

So, as the title implies, I'm debating on dropping down the rabbit hole of doing some machining. I mainly dabble with aluminum, plastic, delrin, and would like to get into some steel.

I could spend some cash, and pick up a deceased friend's sherline mill, and probably his lathe too, Both are small, manual, and hardly used. Mt3 tooling. May also talk to his wife about his computer, which has his old cnc router files(he sold the router before he passed), and his 3d printer files and software (he had a 7500 dollar 3d printer his wife sold after he passed).

I've played with the sherline mill, which would be adequate for my rc boat projects, but not much larger.

So, @GLTHFJ60 and @Malleus ,.school me on small mills, or a knee mill at largest. Budget would be a grand or more, depending on manufacturer and equipment. i dont mind used (because it may have tooling in the deal, as long as the ways and head are in good shape.

M3 vs R8???

 

[Malleus]

So, my 2¢ is that the only "small" mills worth buying are unavailable in the US (Senior mill). These mills were designed and produced with the hobby machinist in mind and are highly thought of in the UK. I have my eyes open for one that made its way to the great white north; if I find one, it's mine.

Compare the Tom Senior column with any of the Chinese (and all the small ones outside of the UK are Chinese) and you'll immediately see the difference; roughly 14"x10" vs. any of the others, the largest I've seen which are, at most, 4'X6".

The column mass gives the quill stability and that has to be there to produce dimensionally accurate parts. IMHO, even the biggest Chinese designs don't have the minimum mass the cutter forces need. This is the only reason I haven't bought one.

The major selling point for the imports is a DRO. Don't be fooled into believing that a DRO makes the tool more accurate; it doesn't - it only helps your old eyes see better. A wobbly quill will still produce chatter marks you can't get out.

If you have at least $1k to spend, buy a Bridgeport. The only downside to the Bridgeport is the need for a rotary phase converter (anything with a motor newer than 1970 will run on a fake converter though). You could replace the 3Ph motor with a single phase, without sacrificing anything, however.

HTH

 

[Malleus]

Here's Grizzly's Chinese version of the Tom Senior "Major" mill

If you're not in a hurry, GovDeals sometimes has mills worth looking at; search under "Machinery".

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Mt3 (Morse taper 3) is a bit smaller than r8, so it's about the size of projects you want to do.

There are a ton of small mills out there. For a grand, and something with a decent work envelope, you're only going to be looking at used bench top unit, but they're usually more than a grand.

Machine auctions are your best bet. Clt auctions is one of the larger ones around in the Carolinas I've seen. Bidspotter as well.

Know that tooling is the most expensive part. If your total budget is a grand, try to spend as little as possible on the machine, and maximize your tooling. You can always upgrade the machine later and use most of, if not all of, the tooling on all your future machines.

 

[Malleus]

FWIW, I've seen quite a few Bridgeports for less than $1500 over the past two years. The problem with any used machine tool is that it's used. Which means worn, to some degree. Even a worn machine tool is capable of precise, repeatable work though, if it has a solid base. The test of a capable machinist, before everyone thought CNC was the end of it all, was to be able to produce a part to print on any given machine. The trick is to learn to compensate for the wear in the sliding components.

The caveat here is that small machines have light, thin section bases, and cheap bearings, and wobble when they cut. There's no way to compensate for that. If you can live with 0.005 or less cuts, any machine will pretty much work, but you'll get old before you finish anything of any size.

I agree with the tooling caveat wholeheartedly. I have $1500 in the $500 South Bend 9 lathe I bought. I paid $3500 for my Myford Super 7, with almost a complete set of tooling, and still don't have the cutters I need for most jobs. The job I have on the lathe now required >$200 in end mills and reamers alone (yes, I mill on my lathe, but the cuts are model size small).

 

[CruizerHound]

So, as the title implies, I'm debating on dropping down the rabbit hole of doing some machining. I mainly dabble with aluminum, plastic, delrin, and would like to get into some steel.

I

M3 vs R8???

How much space do you have?

 

[Malleus]

For example...9x42 Comet Model 3V4C Vertical Knee Mill (note: somebody robbed the power feed...)

 

[stevezero]

How much space do you have?

I've got a 2 car garage, that I should have room for a small machine. I dont think I would remotely come close to being able to utilize a large Bridgeport, although if the right one came along. LOL

 

[GLTHFJ60]

My Bridgeport was under $1500 plus auction fees. Gotta add on the rpc or vfd to that cost though. Not really close to a $1000 budget. $2000 though, that could work.

 

[Malleus]

As you said earlier, he'll have $2k in a machine he buys for $1k, after he tools it up...knowing what I know now, I'd pay the $2k and get a Bridgeport with tooling and an RPC and be done with it. That Comet might sell for the right price...you never know.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

What I was suggesting was find a bench top mill, grizzly, Hf, whatever, for $500, then buy $500 worth of tooling. That'll be fine for soft materials and loose tolerances for getting started. Can always upgrade later

 

[stevezero]

What I was suggesting was find a bench top mill, grizzly, Hf, whatever, for $500, then buy $500 worth of tooling. That'll be fine for soft materials and loose tolerances for getting started. Can always upgrade later

The sherline has some tooling, as well as setup jigs my friend did before he passed. those jigs would be useful for what id be making. i did to do some stuff with it, and it took a while to remove 72 inches of material on two sides LOLOL. Image below of an aluminum extrusion thats a 6 ft tall mast, and we cut and machine down into pieces for the mainsail and jib booms. the silver is what is left of the back of the teardrop.

Im not in a rush, and will keep looking. there are deals out there, just need another one to find me.

 

[stevezero]

You guys are evil.......Anyone have a clue what the reserve may be on one of these things? LOL

Home

www.allsurplus.com

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Usually there isn't a reserve on the machine auction sites. Not that I've seen at least.

 

[CruizerHound]

You guys are evil.......Anyone have a clue what the reserve may be on one of these things? LOL

Home

www.allsurplus.com

That is a newer model Bridgeport with servos on all the axis and some sort of CNC controller. Probably well over 10k for that. Similar machines of that vintage without drives go for 8K all the time at auctions.

This is a mostly industrial woodworking auction site, but they have metal working equipment every now and then. I bid on some HAAS mills last summer that sold for a $1000 in Indiana. The winner then put them on eBay for $7000 and gone.... At the time, I didn't have the bandwidth to put together the shipping logistics to Charlotte.

IRS Auctions

My two cents. Get a Bridgeport. There is a reason they are so popular. You can make anything on one. The more you get into metal working, the larger, heavier, more rigid, and more capacity you will need/want. I stall the BP all the time on steel, so I am looking for a VMC. Get a lathe and you're unstopable.

Sites that are sure to start fights in your relationship:

Bidspotter.com | Industrial, Commercial, Plant and Machinery auctions - https://www.bidspotter.com/en-us

Online Live & Timed Auctions: Connecting Buyers with Sellers | Proxibid - https://www.proxibid.com

Government Surplus Auctions - govdeals.com - https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm

Yellow Tag Auctions - https://www.yellowtagauctions.com

Industrial Machinery & Equipment Specialists - https://cltauctions.com

High Quality CNC and Metalworking Machine Tools | Charleston Annex Corporation - https://www.charlestonannex.com

I see a lot of mills on FB market as well, not so much on CL these days.

 

[Malleus]

@stevezero

It's always hard to imagine what a machine would be like in your shop area; this may help (see the reel from 18:50 on). If I was to buy a mill, it would have to be a small one, because my lathe and surface grinder already have the lion's share of real estate, and I still need a place to work, but that's just me. I waited for 30 years to find the grinder I wanted, and almost decided to buy a Bridgeport when I found it. If I hadn't, I would have bought a full size mill, more for the part size capacity than anything else.

This guy is a professional photographer, not a machinist (he does have a monster welding table though - I really like the casters, they're on my Christmas list). Here's the unit he has: Metex DM45. I'd be interested in it if the column were a little bigger. It's not Chinese; the company claims to make them in Aussieland. For the price, it looks pretty good. It's a shame no one makes one in the US. He also has the mac daddy belt grinder (also Aussie made).

I like Johnny's idea of going small and trading up, you just have to be careful and buy something that would move easily.

 

[Malleus]

That is a newer model Bridgeport with servos on all the axis and some sort of CNC controller. Probably well over 10k for that. Similar machines of that vintage without drives go for 8K all the time at auctions.

This is a mostly industrial woodworking auction site, but they have metal working equipment every now and then. I bid on some HAAS mills last summer that sold for a $1000 in Indiana. The winner then put them on eBay for $7000 and gone.... At the time, I didn't have the bandwidth to put together the shipping logistics to Charlotte.

IRS Auctions

My two cents. Get a Bridgeport. There is a reason they are so popular. You can make anything on one. The more you get into metal working, the larger, heavier, more rigid, and more capacity you will need/want. I stall the BP all the time on steel, so I am looking for a VMC. Get a lathe and you're unstopable.

Sites that are sure to start fights in your relationship:

Bidspotter.com | Industrial, Commercial, Plant and Machinery auctions - https://www.bidspotter.com/en-us

Online Live & Timed Auctions: Connecting Buyers with Sellers | Proxibid - https://www.proxibid.com

Government Surplus Auctions - govdeals.com - https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm

Yellow Tag Auctions - https://www.yellowtagauctions.com

Industrial Machinery & Equipment Specialists - https://cltauctions.com

High Quality CNC and Metalworking Machine Tools | Charleston Annex Corporation - https://www.charlestonannex.com

I see a lot of mills on FB market as well, not so much on CL these days.

Let me know when you decide to get rid of the Bridgeport; shipping has always been the major sticking point for all my finds...

BTW, as soon as I get the surface grinder rebuilt, we'll need to talk about trading shop work. I apologize for highjacking the thread Steve.

 

[stevezero]

Not. hijack at all. @CruizerHound How soon would you be getting rid of the Bridgeport? I think that would be too much machine for me. If I need to do bigger stuff, I know where @GLTHFJ60 lives, LOLOL. And @Malleus isnt a world away either.

Im trying to stay away from a round column mill, just because of the issues people have keeping them in alignment. I dont think I would need a tilting head for angled drilling, and understand the pros and cons of both.


These are what I'm leaning towards. Black Friday deal would have it sitting in my driveway for a little over 1800. it made by sieg, to a slightly different spec than their other branded products (grain of salt taken, big grains of salt on the margarita glass.)

Microlux R8 mega package

Mega Mini R8 Milling Machine Super Value Package

DetailsOur Mega Mini R8 Milling Machine Super Value Package Has Everything You Need to Start Your Own Mini Machine Shop Only “True Inch” machine on the market, .50 inch-per-turn table feed screwsPowerful brushless 500W motor with more torqueIncludes our best-selling accessories: digital speed...

www.micromark.com

Also, same mill without the tooling bundle.

MicroLux® High Precision Heavy Duty R8 Miniature Milling Machine

Details MicroLux® High-Precision Heavy-Duty R8 Miniature Milling Machine. Powerful brushless 500W motor with more torque Only “True Inch” machine on the market, .50 inch-per-turn table feed screws Tilting column and belt-driven spindle Many accessories are available to provide enhanced features...

www.micromark.com

And this from little machine shop. has dro built in. would also need tooling.

Others in the running. Same machine, optioned differently. Both would need tooling as well. LMS has Sieg build to their specifications, and they supposedly assemble and make sure they are operable and square.

With DRO

HiTorque Mini Mill for Sale | Mini Milling Machine for Sale

This HiTorque Mini Mill features a 3-axis DRO and interlocked spindle lock. Shop this mini milling machine for sale online at LIttleMachineShop today!

littlemachineshop.com

Without DRO

HiTorque Mini Mill | Mini Mill Machine | LittleMachineShop

This HiTorque Mini Mill features the largest table and X-Y travel in its class. Shop this quiet, powerful Mini Mill machine at LittleMachineShop today!

littlemachineshop.com

Two of LMS's smaller machines, more in line with the Sherline products.
MT2

HiTorque Micro Mill | Micro Milling Machine for Sale

This HiTorque Micro Mill is the most powerful mill in its class. Shop this 250 watt micro milling machine for sale at LittleMachineShop today!

littlemachineshop.com

And a scratch/dent/demo of the same unit, in er-16. Price on this is 700

HiTorque Micro Mill, ER-16 Spindle 4660

This micro milling machine has the most power, most torque, and a larger table than other mills in its class. Shop this HiTorque mill for sale today!

littlemachineshop.com

LMS's tooling bundles are a little higher quality (at least in appearance).

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I've read that ER collects are better for work holding, not quite as good for tool holding. ER not being as rigid.

A mini mill like one of those with an r8 spindle would be awesome because used (or new cheap) r8 tooling is plentiful on eBay and from shars. The microlux gets my attention for that.

 

[stevezero]

I've read that ER collects are better for work holding, not quite as good for tool holding. ER not being as rigid.

A mini mill like one of those with an r8 spindle would be awesome because used (or new cheap) r8 tooling is plentiful on eBay and from shars. The microlux gets my attention for that.

Now it becomes the decision on which R8 machine. The Microlux or the LMS. R8 offerings. The microlux optioned one has the feed, but the optioned LMS has DRO and an interlocked head.


And to just get stupid, the reserve was just lifted on that Bridgeport here in Greensboro. That would be my luck, I buy one of these, and then end up with the winning big on that monster. LOL