RTH- No start after new contacts

[Photoman]

Thanks, I appreciate the help. I'm getting better responses than my shop teacher, "Your starter is fried, you need a new one"

So about the wood block... How exactly does that work? Do you just push the block against the contacts to make them flush? (need to make sure)

The idea of the wooden block is to make the contacts even so the ring on the plunger contact ring hits them equally. Also, if for some reason the plunger is not going in all the way, then the contact plate/ring will just arc to the contacts and not be able to pull full amps.

Bill

 

[96r50]

Make sure you clean the block and starter where they mate together. Bad grounding could have an effect

 

[Beowulf]

So about the wood block... How exactly does that work? Do you just push the block against the contacts to make them flush? (need to make sure)

Lane,
Do you have the FSM for your vehicle?
-B-

 

[Lka1988]

Lane,
Do you have the FSM for your vehicle?
-B-

Yeah, I do.

Though I remember hearing about using a wood block for the contacts, I never really thought it was necessary. 'Til now, of course.

I couldn't find anything about a wood block in the FSM... What page?

 

[Lka1988]

Make sure you clean the block and starter where they mate together. Bad grounding could have an effect

Absolutely. That was one of the first things that went through my head as the first attempt at starting failed.

 

[Lka1988]

So I got the starter out, re-tightened the contacts with a wood block, in a vise to make sure they didn't move...

Still nothing.

 

[Lka1988]

Also, if for some reason the plunger is not going in all the way, then the contact plate/ring will just arc to the contacts and not be able to pull full amps.

What would cause the plunger to not go in all the way?

 

[Beowulf]

I couldn't find anything about a wood block in the FSM... What page?

Here is the FSM page from George's write-up that breathed sent you back in post #20.

-B-

 

[Photoman]

What would cause the plunger to not go in all the way?

The plunger stuff is very unlikely but could have gotten bent, small screw could have fallen down inside, etc. I assume when you have the starter off and touch 12v to the solenoid terminal with the starter body grounded that the bendix gear shoots out violently? Ok good.

Note: clutch pinion gear = old school bendix gear

1) With the starter on the cruiser I would try taking the stock ignition wire off the solenoid and run a new piece of wire up by the battery. Have someone turn the ignition key to the start position and touch the wire to the positive battery terminal. If it turns over and starts make sure they quickly release the key to the run position.
If it still just clicks then step 2. I would very carefully run one jumper cable down to the big lug on the starter side of the solenoid (the opposite side of where the big wire comes down from the battery – pull back rubber boot). Be very careful that the clamp only clamps on the terminal and does not touch the starter or anything else. Either with the stock wire hooked back up or touching the small wire you ran to the solenoid get the solenoid to click and then hit (touch) the other end of the jumper cable to the positive battery terminal. Use common sense and don’t start a fire.
Hopefully what 1) should eliminate is any problem with power to the solenoid dropping out after the key is turned.
Just doing 2) assuming a strong battery 12 volts should get the starter motor to spin without power going through the solenoid. By having the solenoid click first and assuming the bendix gear is shooting out, the cruiser engine should spin.



Somehow I can’t believe you are making a mistake with the contacts so the above may be futile. If you are inclined to save some money or are curious I would pull the starter motor apart and look at the brushes. There are continuity tests for the armature or if you know someone with a growler (not Junk’s sister) they can test it for you. I used to turn the commutators down on a lathe for a smooth surface for new brushes to ride on and scratch in between the commutator bars to make sure they were not shorted at that point. It is possible one of the wires in the fields is broken and not always making contact or a field is shorting to the starter body intermittently. Again continuity tests.

Most don’t want to do the testing or have the time and just replace the starter.

Btw, when you have the starter off look in at the flex plate at the ring gear and see if there are any burrs and try to jiggle the gear. Sometimes the gear can bust or crack and jam so the engine can’t turn over at that point on the gear.

Sorry for the long post.


Bill

 

[informationjunky]

243k? check the brushes, and also for corrosion on conection between starter moter and plunger housing.

 

[Lka1988]

Sorry for the lateness... I had to rush off to work after school, which meant no Mud time. But I drove there with a working starter.

Here's what happened: This morning, I was reading Photoman's post(#21), and read about the plunger not being able to go in all the way for some reason or another. I basically had an epiphany right then and there. I had checked and checked and re-checked everything, EXCEPT the plunger. So I ran out into the shop, got the starter out, put the old plunger back in (after a good sanding), and replaced the starter.

The 80 started right up. The plunger that I bought was slightly too long.

I soon figured out that when the starter was tested on the work table, it would work perfectly because the bendix gear wasn't restricted by anything (i.e. flywheel) and was able to shoot out all the way. When I put it back in the truck, the flywheel would prevent the gear from shooting all the way out, which prevented the plunger from completing the circuit.

 

[Lka1988]

Somehow I can’t believe you are making a mistake with the contacts so the above may be futile. If you are inclined to save some money or are curious I would pull the starter motor apart and look at the brushes. There are continuity tests for the armature or if you know someone with a growler (not Junk’s sister) they can test it for you. I used to turn the commutators down on a lathe for a smooth surface for new brushes to ride on and scratch in between the commutator bars to make sure they were not shorted at that point. It is possible one of the wires in the fields is broken and not always making contact or a field is shorting to the starter body intermittently. Again continuity tests.

Most don’t want to do the testing or have the time and just replace the starter.

Btw, when you have the starter off look in at the flex plate at the ring gear and see if there are any burrs and try to jiggle the gear. Sometimes the gear can bust or crack and jam so the engine can’t turn over at that point on the gear.

Sorry for the long post.


Bill

I was at the point of ripping the thing apart and testing every little piece; armature, commutator, field coils, pull-in/hold-in windings, bearings, gears, everything. Almost to the point of putting down $200 bones for a new starter.

Testing it wouldn't have done much on the work bench, though.

Although, I did impress my shop teacher with the way he watched me handle the situation and figure it out. (background: He's a mechanic.)

 

[Lka1988]

Here is the FSM page from George's write-up that breathed sent you back in post #20.

-B-

Holy cow, I can't believe I missed that...

I read that website like 30 times through.

But, I have realized something. My FSM doesn't have anything about the starter contacts/plunger. Only armature, field coils, etc...

I also don't believe that the contacts are the same for a 3FE starter and a 1FZ starter. In my starter, I have two identical contacts. In the 1FZ starter, there is one square-ish contact (like mine), and one contact with a "finger" off one side.

 

[Beowulf]

The 80 started right up. The plunger that I bought was slightly too long.

Nice work Lane! Are you using Toyota parts?

If you bought the plunger from CruiserDan then be sure to ask him if there are 2 different versions for the 3FE starter. The 1FZ-FE has 3 different starters but I don't know if the plungers are different.

-B-

 

[Lka1988]

Yeah, I am using Toyota parts. I just bought a starter plunger from the local dealer thinking they were all the same... :whoops:

 

[tech_dog]

I'm about to do this same thing, with parts on the way.

Can somone who's done this tell me why Toyota specifies a SST for torquing the terminal nuts? It looks like a basic socket and torque wrench are all you need.

I don't have the starter off the truck yet. Am I missing something?

Thanks,

T.

 

[Lka1988]

I'm about to do this same thing, with parts on the way.

Can somone who's done this tell me why Toyota specifies a SST for torquing the terminal nuts? It looks like a basic socket and torque wrench are all you need.

I don't have the starter off the truck yet. Am I missing something?

Thanks,

T.

I just used a wrench.

BTW, as the OP, my starter is still working great.