rough idle, no power, knocking

[jcarter]

'92, 3FE, 220K miles
Sympton: On my way home from a float trip last week, I had hardly any power getting up hills on the interstate. It's typically not a speed demon up hills, but knocking and really bad. Once I got in town and hit a stop light, the engine was flopping around with a really rough idle.

Today: Its a spare, so I left it all week. Today I thought I'd get into it a bit. I wiggled & pushed the plug wires on, still rough idle, so figured I'd look at the timing. Did TE1-E1. The idle stayed around 800, wouldn't go down to 650 like the book says. Also, the distributor adjustment is fully counter-clockwise. I backed it off a bit trying to see something with the timing light, saw a bolt head, no marks. Since the adjustment was full, basically backed it off (clockwise) just a tad, and took it for a drive. Idle (in park) shot up to 1200, put in drive and went down to 700 & really rough (even worse). By the way, it ran best when I set the timing back to as far counter-clockwise as possible.

I need to do something, but am not sure where to start. Any comments back would be appreciated. Book tune-up (plugs, wires, rotor) but it hasn't been that long since I've done one. Couldn't find any vacuum leaks. ISC valve - maybe? Adjust valves (hasn't EVER been done)? EFI, but I don't think it's a gas problem. What would make the idle jump like that?

Thanks!

 

[bobm]

Had similar issue and changed fuel filter. by by problem.

Thanks Bob.

 

[Eicca]

It's possible that the distributor may be installed incorrectly and the gear may be a one tooth off.

 

[jcarter]

Since it runs best when the timing adjustment is at maximum counterclockwise distributor turn, can't I simply pull out the distributor, turn it so the adjustment is in the middle, then push it back down? A tooth or so over?

Gas filters, yuck! I believe I bought one during some other work, but never put it in because old is a rusty, nasty mess. I'll do that first. Probably never been done and 220k miles in near 20 years, it's overdue.

Second I'll go ahead and do some electrical diagnosis on the Idle Speed Control (ISC) valve. Found the thread "FJ80 High Idle Problem Solved". Seems the idle is supposed to stay at 650 in park or drive, which hasn't been in years. The Engine Control Unit (ECU) is supposed to tell the ISC system to stay at the 650, it isn't now, I'll bet this is the issue.

Third will be the Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) valve & valve adjustment. Seems to make sense to do these at the same time with valve cover off. I'm NOT real good at this tedious stuff and thickness gauges (feeler gauge?) scare me. I'll get my neighbor to help with this one.

Looks like I got some work in store, but doesn't seem like a lot of money. This is good because my new 33" BFG's blew my budget for the year. Next year is going to be an ARB or Slee front bumper, lost some of the old one fording a river a month ago (splashed a bit too much to entertain the passengers).

What do you think?

 

[bobm]

Ya. The filter isa pain. But after i changed it 80 ran great.

Thanks bob.

 

[Eicca]

There's a definite procedure for reinstalling the distributor correctly. I'd make sure you know what to do so something doesn't get even further messed up.

 

[jcarter]

Changed the fuel filter (what a pain) but still running like crap!

It's spitting out the tail pipe. Could this be an engine gasket letting anti-freeze into the burn cylinder? I don't think it's oil, but I'll look harder today.

Any suggestions would be great! I wonder if 221,057 miles is the limit on a "92?

 

[Hte2w8]

Changed the fuel filter (what a pain) but still running like crap!

It's spitting out the tail pipe. Could this be an engine gasket letting anti-freeze into the burn cylinder? I don't think it's oil, but I'll look harder today.

Any suggestions would be great! I wonder if 221,057 miles is the limit on a "92?

Sounds like it could be the HG...have you had any overheating probs? The 92 experiences fewer hg probs but it could go. If properly maintained 221k is hardly the limit. My 92 has
239k and I anticipate it will easily go another 100k plus...not without maintenance of course. Did you ensure the right firing sequence? My dist was off one gear and I could definitely feel it.

 

[jcarter]

"off one gear": The timing adjustment is as far as it can go counterclockwise, maybe the distributor is off one gear. Can I simply pull out the distributor, turn it, then put it back in?

 

[Hte2w8]

"off one gear": The timing adjustment is as far as it can go counterclockwise, maybe the distributor is off one gear. Can I simply pull out the distributor, turn it, then put it back in?

That's what I said...the dist. You can try it...pita but worth it if its the prob.

 

[Eicca]

Given that one guy just got his 3FE to over 400k I don't think 221,057 is really even middle age for that engine.

 

[jcarter]

Proper maintenance: I change the oil, do tune-ups, keep the front axle well lubed, and do any other work as needed. No CEL on. New O2 sensors this spring with new pipes (manifold thru Cats).

Improper maintenance: I've got some oil leaks and haven't done the valve adjustment.

Recent Driving: I did run through a river a couple of months ago, but it ran fine back home. Then ran fine a couple of weeks ago back out to the country (150 miles or so). It wasn't until coming back did it start acting up.

 

[jcarter]

What's "pita"? I looked at FAQ, but can't find anything. I think it means "YOUR SCREWED IF YOU DO IT WRONG" but I keep thinking Gyros and get hungry.

 

[ToddD]

How's your engine compression?

Are there really no timing marks on your crank pulley?!
PITA is forum speak for pain in the ass.

 

[Hte2w8]

Proper maintenance includes changing hoses, atf, cooling system, checking temps....all the little stuff that makes some LC owners seem neurotic to the rest of the free world. I'm under my hood and under the rig nearly every day....enough so my husband accuses me of loving the LC more than I love him.

 

[jcarter]

Good point! I'll do a compression check today. My dummy gauge has been saying good (1/2 @ 1000rpm, 3/4 @ 2500 rpm).

Timing: No, I couldn't see anything but a bolt. I figured because the idle wouldn't come down to the 600 rpm in the book, but I'm thinking wrong since i can only see when #1 sparks, right?

It's running so crappy, I'd hate to let it run until heated up. What's killing me is that it's been running AWESOME! Real big change, so I'm still thinking ignition, but might be something more catastrophic.

 

[jcarter]

Maintenance: Then yes, I've kept pretty good maintenance on it. I check all the fluids & tires before each trip. Hoses & belts I've always waited until "BOOM", but I have spares & tools in a bin with her. More tune-ups then on ALL my other vehicles combined (wires, plugs, rotor, & cap). Clean the "air-in system" regularly. Should be OK even at 220K.

 

[ToddD]

Good point! I'll do a compression check today. My dummy gauge has been saying good (1/2 @ 1000rpm, 3/4 @ 2500 rpm).

Timing: No, I couldn't see anything but a bolt. I figured because the idle wouldn't come down to the 600 rpm in the book, but I'm thinking wrong since i can only see when #1 sparks, right?

It's running so crappy, I'd hate to let it run until heated up. What's killing me is that it's been running AWESOME! Real big change, so I'm still thinking ignition, but might be something more catastrophic.

Clean all the crap off the edge of that pulley and find that timing mark.
This is what mine looked like AFTER I wiped all the gunk off it.
http://arrc.epnet.com/autoapp/9316/chiltonimages/8682/86821164L.gif

I'm curious what bolt you're staring at...

 

[poppy walnut]

No codes?

I can sit here and throw out a bunch of "it's the fpr, it's the hg, etc" but hard to troubleshoot over the forum when you haven't done much looking.

Have you pulled the plugs even?

First and foremost you need to address the distributor. You can't just yank it out and shove it in and hope for the best.

To even have a shot you need to reset the distributor and see where your ignition timing is.

Not trying to be a prick, I'm trying to help. But sitting here guessing isn't going to solve much.

 

[jcj_78FJ40]

Check your cats.

I had one where the ceramic honeycomb busted apart inside and was blocking the exaust. It showed similar sysmptoms.

Good luck.