Builds Reconstruction after rollover - building The Champ 2. (1 Viewer)

[baldilocks]

I rolled my 94 and the body is done but mechanicals are fine. I want to pick up an 80 preferably one that's not operational so I have a foundation to build on with my parts. I prefer 94-earlier. I'm in CA so smog is an issue but I think that a newer model engine in and older cruiser would be no problem.
Are there any major reasons why I would not want to attempt to put all my running gear in a 91-92? These years are the cheapest to pick up.

 

[slow95z]

you would need to swap EVERYTHING and it is a real pain. all the dash wires and stuff, major pain. a 95+ is easier but still a chore. i would look for a 93/94 with a blown HG and swap yous into it. much cheaper in the long run and it gets you spare parts.

 

[LS1FJ40]

Buy a 91-92. Sell your mechanicals from your rolled 80. Welcome to the bombproof world of the mighty 3FE!

 

[baldilocks]

you would need to swap EVERYTHING and it is a real pain. all the dash wires and stuff, major pain. a 95+ is easier but still a chore. i would look for a 93/94 with a blown HG and swap yous into it. much cheaper in the long run and it gets you spare parts.

I was expecting this type of answer. Thanks for the input.

 

[slow95z]

Welcome to the bombproof world of the mighty 3FE!

then why have all 4 of my 1FZs made it past the mark both of my 3FEs let go

 

[baldilocks]

Buy a 91-92. Sell your mechanicals from your rolled 80. Welcome to the bombproof world of the mighty 3FE!

I will test drive one or two 3fe's to see what they are like.

 

[slow95z]

I will test drive one or two 3fe's to see what they are like.

drive a lawn mower, now picture it being slower. that is a 3FE powered rig.

 

[baldilocks]

you would need to swap EVERYTHING and it is a real pain. all the dash wires and stuff, major pain. a 95+ is easier but still a chore. i would look for a 93/94 with a blown HG and swap yous into it. much cheaper in the long run and it gets you spare parts.

drive a lawn mower, now picture it being slower. that is a 3FE powered rig.

That's what I've heard. My 1fz was rebuilt under 20k ago (not by me) and I just re-did the HG last spring. She has no leaks and runs very smoothly as does the transmission so I agree now that my best option is to wait for the right 93-94 to come along.

 

[LS1FJ40]

then why have all 4 of my 1FZs made it past the mark both of my 3FEs let go

User error.

 

[LS1FJ40]

I will test drive one or two 3fe's to see what they are like.

Cross between a sewing machine and a tractor. Only they don't blow up and don't blow head gaskets. Slow and steady.

 

[arcteryx]

i would look for a 93/94 with a blown HG and swap yous into it. much cheaper in the long run and it gets you spare parts.

Buy a 91-92. Sell your mechanicals from your rolled 80. Welcome to the bombproof world of the mighty 3FE!

Either of these options make $en$e. Doing what you initially asked is a LOT of work, take it from someone who has dismantled many of both. While they may look the same from the outside, once you get into them, they are completely different. A 91-92 may have a lower buy in price, but you will exceed the total cost if you try to swap a 1FZ into that chassis. And, lets not talk about the legality of title when kluging the two, especially in Kali....

 

[baldilocks]

Either of these options make $en$e. Doing what you initially asked is a LOT of work, take it from someone who has dismantled many of both. While they may look the same from the outside, once you get into them, they are completely different. A 91-92 may have a lower buy in price, but you will exceed the total cost if you try to swap a 1FZ into that chassis. And, lets not talk about the legality of title when kluging the two, especially in Kali....

Agreed. I've been on the classifieds here and CL and as long as I'm not adverse to a day or two road trip, what I want is already available. There is a locked, green, 94 in Colorado for $3k that I could part out and then put all my stuff on it and probably come out pretty good as far as expenses. Yes I know diesel fuel is not free. A road trip over the Rockies might be nice anyhow. .

 

[arcteryx]

Check with @orangefj45 or @torfab , they may have something or know of a lead. Much closer than CO, although it's never a bad thing to go to the Rockies.

 

[ChaseTruck]

Buy a 91-92. Sell your mechanicals from your rolled 80. Welcome to the bombproof world of the mighty 3FE!

Wait, what?
The OP stated that he rolled the truck - he didn't blow the motor.

Are you saying the 3fe has so little power that you can't even roll the truck?

 

[bloc]

Generally speaking the legal aspects of swapping a newer (cleaner, in theory anyway) engine into an older chassis is pretty easy, even in cali, as i understand it. Logistically, however.. whoooooooolleeee different ballgame.

I'm currently putting my 94 frame/drivetrain/suspension under a 97 body, so I have a bit of experience on the subject. So far I'm at something like 4 dozen solder joints.

First off, the 91-92 chassis/body will not have the pigtails on the harness for the A442F transmission computer. These two pigtails are wired into the dash harness near the driver's footwell. It wouldn't actually be extremely difficult to put these pigtails near the ECU, but realistically compared to finding a similar 93-94? WORLDS different amount of labor involved.

The engine part itself is more of an unknown to me.. but I can say that the 1FZ ECU interfaces with the body harness for a few things (fuel pump resistor control; air flow meter partly controls the circuit opening relay which provides power to the fuel pump; tach signal actually bypasses the ecu and comes from the coil, which is very different on the 97 requiring some trickery like the circuit opening relay); other stuff I'm forgetting)

Not to mention the logistics of actually swapping the body. If it weren't for my friend's forklift, big parking lot, and fabrication shop it would have been a matter of finding a shop with TWO spare 2-post lifts and begging for time on them.

Basically, take it from someone currently dealing with your exact scenario. I bought a 94, spent months going through the engine fixing everything (literally no oil leaks!!) so when I rolled it a few months later and the roll didn't damage any suspension/steering I thought I had big incentive to keep that drivetrain and find a donor shell.

Realistically if I had just waited for a good body/frame to swap my lockers/running gear into I could have paid for a significant chunk of the vortec swap I want in money/time.. and not have to do dozens of hours of wiring to get my pig running so I can (salvage/rebuilt) title it before I rip all the damn electrical stuff out for said vortec next year!! All in a hodgepodge body with a salvage title!

Yeah. Don't bother. Find a same-year donor or just keep the crap you want.

I'm going to bed.

 

[baldilocks]

Generally speaking the legal aspects of swapping a newer (cleaner, in theory anyway) engine into an older chassis is pretty easy, even in cali, as i understand it. Logistically, however.. whoooooooolleeee different ballgame.

I'm currently putting my 94 frame/drivetrain/suspension under a 97 body, so I have a bit of experience on the subject. So far I'm at something like 4 dozen solder joints.

First off, the 91-92 chassis/body will not have the pigtails on the harness for the A442F transmission computer. These two pigtails are wired into the dash harness near the driver's footwell. It wouldn't actually be extremely difficult to put these pigtails near the ECU, but realistically compared to finding a similar 93-94? WORLDS different amount of labor involved.

The engine part itself is more of an unknown to me.. but I can say that the 1FZ ECU interfaces with the body harness for a few things (fuel pump resistor control; air flow meter partly controls the circuit opening relay which provides power to the fuel pump; tach signal actually bypasses the ecu and comes from the coil, which is very different on the 97 requiring some trickery like the circuit opening relay); other stuff I'm forgetting)

Not to mention the logistics of actually swapping the body. If it weren't for my friend's forklift, big parking lot, and fabrication shop it would have been a matter of finding a shop with TWO spare 2-post lifts and begging for time on them.

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Basically, take it from someone currently dealing with your exact scenario. I bought a 94, spent months going through the engine fixing everything (literally no oil leaks!!) so when I rolled it a few months later and the roll didn't damage any suspension/steering I thought I had big incentive to keep that drivetrain and find a donor shell.

Realistically if I had just waited for a good body/frame to swap my lockers/running gear into I could have paid for a significant chunk of the vortec swap I want in money/time.. and not have to do dozens of hours of wiring to get my pig running so I can (salvage/rebuilt) title it before I rip all the damn electrical stuff out for said vortec next year!! All in a hodgepodge body with a salvage title!

Yeah. Don't bother. Find a same-year donor or just keep the crap you want.

I'm going to bed.

I found a 94 body that another Mub member has and he has offered to help me hoist the old off and the new on. Is there any reason for me to remover the power train to do the body swap? Would it make it easier?

 

[arcteryx]

Easier? probably but not needed. That said, it would be a great time to replace some seals/gaskets, ie headgasket, mains, ps pump, etc. It's all wide open and very easy to get to. Oh, make sure your rear heater lines are not rusty, if they are then replace those as those can only be replaced when the tranny is pulled.

 

[baldilocks]

Easier? probably but not needed. That said, it would be a great time to replace some seals/gaskets, ie headgasket, mains, ps pump, etc. It's all wide open and very easy to get to. Oh, make sure your rear heater lines are not rusty, if they are then replace those as those can only be replaced when the tranny is pulled.

Thanks for the input. I assume you have done a body swap in the past? As for my engine, it was rebuilt 20k ago so no leaks and I probably don't really need a rear heater.

 

[bloc]

Arcteryx parts out cruisers as a business, so he's seen plenty in all states of disassembly.

Is your front clip good? Some of the most time consuming work of a real body swap is dealing with all of the stuff in the front inner fenders.. In that case your "easiest" option is to leave the engine, transmission, radiator, core support, inner fenders, brake lines, front clip harness, etc on the frame and move the new body shell from the firewall back over to the old frame. Once you remove the front fenders it is only 6 bolts on each side to separate the inner fenders from the body shell. A couple on each side are tough to get to, but that's still easier than separating all of the brake lines, electrical harnesses, AC lines, cooling system, etc etc from the front body parts.

That said, if your front inner fenders and core support arent perfect, you are better off swapping it all. I'd leave the engine/transmission in the frame and do as arcteryx said.. just lift the complete body off the top. One thing I'm not sure about is whether the body with inner fenders will lift off the top while the intake manifold is in place.. clearance may be tight between the inner fender and the IM.

One wire that I didn't notice to disconnect during my swap was a ground strap that goes from the transfer case to the bottom of the body. Not a big deal, just a heads up to look for it.

Many of the body bolts will tend to spin as you try and loosen from the bottom.. all have access ports covered by plastic plugs under the interior carpet so you can get a socket on the top for backup.

Beyond that.. bag & tag as many of the bolts as you can, take a ton of pics, balance the body well before lifting, make sure you can get it high enough (our fork lift had enough room by literally ONE inch. Any lower and we would have had to deflate tires, get shorter lifting straps, or regroup completely), and BE CAREFUL. Lots of opportunities to get hurt doing this job.

Also second what arcteryx said about rear heat lines. I just removed them completely since they were bypassed as a common failure point anyway. I did run the two heat line bolts on the firewall back in as there would have been 8mm holes left open in the firewall after.

 

[baldilocks]

Lots of good info there as well as in your swap thread. My front clip is toast so it sounds like a lot of work. I have gone back and forth over buying a complete vehicle and swapping in my power train and axles and possibly my clean interior. I am gathering info so I can decide which is most feasible for me. I could also part mine out and work my ass off to save up and buy a fresh rig and start over. There is no easy way about this for sure.