Recent Toyota Quality issues

[Gohawks63]

A few of you may remember the discussion on the Multi-function (a.k.a. Nav screen) going out on my '04 Land Cruiser. There was a TSB out on it and the part alone cost $5K. I was out of the factory warranty, but had fortunately purchased an extended one.

Then the head unit was replaced due to a TSB regarding bluetooth issues where the radio wouldn't "unmute" after a call. I think the cost of the head unit was about $700.

Now I notice that the back-up camera has gone dead. When you put it in reverse, you still see the "Watch surroundings for objects or people" (or whatever is the blinking message is), but behind that is just snow. I have an appointment this afternoon to take it in.

Keep in mind that the vehicle has 60K miles, and aside from taking some long trips, I baby this thing.

Looks like the $1,400 I paid for the extended warranty was money well spent.

Mechanically these vehicles are solid, but the electronics leave something to be desired. I'll post back on the fix, but my guess is a new camera since the display works fine otherwise. Unless the connection came loose.

 

[spressomon]

A few of you may remember the discussion on the Multi-function (a.k.a. Nav screen) going out on my '04 Land Cruiser. There was a TSB out on it and the part alone cost $5K. I was out of the factory warranty, but had fortunately purchased an extended one.

Then the head unit was replaced due to a TSB regarding bluetooth issues where the radio wouldn't "unmute" after a call. I think the cost of the head unit was about $700.

Now I notice that the back-up camera has gone dead. When you put it in reverse, you still see the "Watch surroundings for objects or people" (or whatever is the blinking message is), but behind that is just snow. I have an appointment this afternoon to take it in.

Keep in mind that the vehicle has 60K miles, and aside from taking some long trips, I baby this thing.

Looks like the $1,400 I paid for the extended warranty was money well spent.

Mechanically these vehicles are solid, but the electronics leave something to be desired. I'll post back on the fix, but my guess is a new camera since the display works fine otherwise. Unless the connection came loose.

The significant reliability issues with most high end vehicles today (Audi A8, Mercedes E and S series, BMW 7/8 series), as I have read, has been electronics. Someone told me there are 150+ CPU's in the new high end vehicles mentioned above. Each generation of the LC has gotten more complex electrically...with associated complaints of reliability. But the auto manufacturers feel they need to keep coming up with bigger accessory/feaure gimmicks to attract the upper eschelon of buyers (IMO) thus compounding the real issues of being able to deliver good/dependable reliability.

 

[NMuzj100]

Good thing I've been priced out of the "High-to-moderate" end of the market for a while now.

 

[Gohawks63]

Well as I expected, the camera went bad. I wonder if the location is an issue. With the constant slamming of the hatch, I bet the impact and vibrations takeit's toll.

Service Manager stated that if I was paying out of pocket for the repair, it would have set me back about $1,000.

So, $5k for the Nav screen, $750 for the head unit, and $1,000 for the camera.

The warranty company lost big time with me, and I still have 40k miles before the warranty expires.

 

[Jim_Chow]

There was a thread some time back (this or last year) where a number of rear cameras on '04's have gone bad. IIRC, there was an eclipse camera for around $150 that people have gotten to work. Sounds like '04 was a bad year electronically...new generation of nav introduced + new rear camera=potential problems. I believe the gen-3 ('00-03?) nav was used for the most years and had no issues. I think the 07's are still using gen-4 while the newest toyotas got gen-5? It wouldn't surprise me if the first year of gen-5 vehicles (either lexus GS or IS) have issues. Now, it seems most of the new cars have those proximity warning sensors in the front/rear bumper and those lame tire pressure sensors. Luckily my 100 doesn't have any of that useless junk. My proximity warning system is the ARB winchbar!

 

[SWUtah]

Glad I have a CPO 2004 should be covered for as long as I own the vehicle

 

[CrusrDug]

Gohawks63

The electronics is the reason I bought the extended warranty. The nice thing is you have had peace of mind and now your repairs are covered. All you're out is some time. Plus you gotta admit- it's pretty cool when you have someone in there for the first time and throw it in reverse

 

[Gohawks63]

Gohawks63

The electronics is the reason I bought the extended warranty. The nice thing is you have had peace of mind and now your repairs are covered. All you're out is some time. Plus you gotta admit- it's pretty cool when you have someone in there for the first time and throw it in reverse

Yeah I know, and the experience I had with my Nav was what made an extended warranty a no-brainer when I bought my 2006 Acura RL. That has even more technology, SH-AWD, Key less entry and ignition (door handles are $400 a piece I've been told), adaptive headlights, etc.

I had planned on owning this LC well past 100k miles, now I'm not so sure. That's why I'm disappointed.

 

[Jim_Chow]

Makes you wonder if the LC (or even most cars in general) will ever render itself obsolete in the sense that in the future, everything might be so electronic dependent (e.g., electronic steering w/ no rack) that its reliability will be questionable in life-dependent conditions.

 

[NMuzj100]

Makes you wonder if the LC (or even most cars in general) will ever render itself obsolete in the sense that in the future, everything might be so electronic dependent (e.g., electronic steering w/ no rack) that its reliability will be questionable in life-dependent conditions.

What worries me is the fact that the computers can be programmed to fail at a given milage. If an ecu "goes" bad at 120k how can you know if it was a normal event or a factory "planned" failure. Remember they think that "lifetime" = 150k miles.

 

[SWUtah]

What worries me is the fact that the computers can be programmed to fail at a given milage. If an ecu "goes" bad at 120k how can you know if it was a normal event or a factory "planned" failure. Remember they think that "lifetime" = 150k miles.

I wouldn't worry about that, we have members with 300K+ miles on their 80's and 200K+ on their 100's. You guys are just looking for trouble. I just plan on trading mine for a new one when my 100K miles warranty is up But I never own a vehicle more then a few years so that is normal for me.

 

[Jim_Chow]

What worries me is the fact that the computers can be programmed to fail at a given milage. If an ecu "goes" bad at 120k how can you know if it was a normal event or a factory "planned" failure. Remember they think that "lifetime" = 150k miles.

Well, if it helps, my '86 toyota ecu's are all still working. Only electrical failures I've had was the AC blew an amp on the board behind the glovebox and the ground to the rear window defroster fell off from the window going up/down all the time. Driver's side (manual) window requires some effort to lower when cold.

On a friend's BMW, they recommend a tune-up every 30K mi. Funny thing was, he said you could notice the engine would de-tune (or was detuned) at the 30Kmi interval!

 

[NMuzj100]

A couple of years ago I had a broken arm that would not heal. The Docs got a Electro-magnetic bone-growth stimulator for me. The thing cost $4K and wrapped around my arm and zapped it with an bone growth stimulating pulse. The factory rep was showing me how it worked and explained that it was programmed at the factory to go dead at 6 months so If I needed to use it past the 6 months for the same injury to call him up to get a new one. $4k and you just throw it in the trash after it's internal timer expires!

 

[SWUtah]

A couple of years ago I had a broken arm that would not heal. The Docs got a Electro-magnetic bone-growth stimulator for me. The thing cost $4K and wrapped around my arm and zapped it with an bone growth stimulating pulse. The factory rep was showing me how it worked and explained that it was programmed at the factory to go dead at 6 months so If I needed to use it past the 6 months for the same injury to call him up to get a new one. $4k and you just throw it in the trash after it's internal timer expires!

I think that is because they want to make another $4K Do you have an alternative to this company for the bone growth stimulator

 

[tech_dog]

It's always bothered me that they deeply embed all the electronics into the vehicle. A Landcruiser can last 30 years or more, but the electronics won't, and even if they did they'd be totally obsolete decades sooner.

They should be looslly coupling the electronics so that they can be easily removed, replaced, upgraded.

I cringe when I think of using my nightvision 15 years from now, as it will surely be the equivalent of having a brick sized cell phone mounted on my dash.

T.

 

[DoctorJay]

A couple of years ago I had a broken arm that would not heal. The Docs got a Electro-magnetic bone-growth stimulator for me. The thing cost $4K and wrapped around my arm and zapped it with an bone growth stimulating pulse. The factory rep was showing me how it worked and explained that it was programmed at the factory to go dead at 6 months so If I needed to use it past the 6 months for the same injury to call him up to get a new one. $4k and you just throw it in the trash after it's internal timer expires!

Don't get me started on medical devices. I think the philosphy with the bone growth stimulators is, 'if it hasn't worked at 6 months it really won't work.' That's medically accurate. Why it costs $4K is a different story. There's R&D and some profit, sure, but a great deal of the cost of these things is libaility insurance.

Back to the story, modular electronics on cars would be great. Mercedes and BMW are prime examples of cars that used to be the pinnacle of reliability, and are now worse than what we make here. It's the electronics. The other annoying thing is that these are supposed to be a "driver's car," and they're relieving us of the driving. Variable ratio steering, stability control, it all gets old. My father-in-law's C-class has this panic brake assist. If it detects a rapid brake application (pedal velocity) it immediately slams on full brakes, even if your foot is light on the pedal. I tripped this thing off in a traffic jam in Cape Town last year, and scared the peanuts out of my whole family.

Sad to see that Toyota's going that way too. I wish they'd quit being clever, and focus on the cars.

 

[Gohawks63]

My father-in-law's C-class has this panic brake assist. If it detects a rapid brake application (pedal velocity) it immediately slams on full brakes, even if your foot is light on the pedal. I tripped this thing off in a traffic jam in Cape Town last year, and scared the peanuts out of my whole family.

Actually the LC has that same feature, as does my Acura.

 

[DoctorJay]

Actually the LC has that same feature, as does my Acura.

Really? glad mine doesn't. I really like VSC and ABS, but brakes that are smarter than me? No thanks. BTW, Hawks, glad you're taking advantage of the warranty; usually they only prevent anything from ever breaking.

 

[Gohawks63]

Really? glad mine doesn't. I really like VSC and ABS, but brakes that are smarter than me? No thanks. BTW, Hawks, glad you're taking advantage of the warranty; usually they only prevent anything from ever breaking.

Yep, it's called Brake Assist, and Toyota markets it as part of their (out of their electronic brochure) Star Safety SystemTM - includes Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) [2] + Traction Control (TRAC), 4-wheel Anti-lock Brake System (ABS) with Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD), and Brake Assist [3]

Definition of Brake Assist from Wikipedia

Brake Assist (BA or BAS) is a generic term for an automobile braking technology that increases braking pressure in an emergency situation.

The first application was developed jointly by Daimler-Benz and TRW/Lucas-Verity. Research conducted in 1992 at the Mercedes-Benz driving simulator in Berlin revealed that more than 90% percent of drivers fail to brake with enough force in emergency situations. Brake Assist detects circumstances in which emergency braking is required by measuring the speed with which the brake pedal is depressed. When panic braking is detected, the Brake Assist system automatically develops maximum brake boost in order to mitigate a drivers tendency to brake without enough force. In doing so, Brake Assist has been shown to reduce stopping distance by a significant margin; up to 20% in some studies. In December 1996 BAS premiered to the world on the Mercedes-Benz S-Class and SL-Class. In 1998 Mercedes-Benz became the first company to make Brake Assist standard equipment on all its models; other brands including Volvo and BMW soon followed suit.

I don't recall if it was the 2003 or 2004 LC to be the first to have the feature.

 

[NMuzj100]

Don't get me started on medical devices. I think the philosphy with the bone growth stimulators is, 'if it hasn't worked at 6 months it really won't work.' That's medically accurate. Why it costs $4K is a different story.

It worked great! Healed in 6 weeks what nature on its own hadn't done in 4 months. The $4k I have no problem with either. Testing and validating good science costs money and avoiding surgery is a good investment. The only thing that bothered me was throwing away something that I knew was still perfectly capable of healing a person.

My father-in-law's C-class has this panic brake assist. If it detects a rapid brake application (pedal velocity) it immediately slams on full brakes, even if your foot is light on the pedal.

I think this is a valuable safety device and probably shouldn't be dismissed as gizmo junk. Todays cars are capable of much more rapid stops than people will push them to. Some accidents will be avoided altogether with this tech and others reduced in severity. When the biggest downside is a good seatbelt check for the rest of the family as a result of a twitchy drivers foot I have no problem with it.