Rear spring recommendation (3 Viewers)

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Always measure from the center of the hub if you're trying to gauge the spring impact. Your fender-to-ground height will vary depending on tire pressure, and if you're trying to compare against other people on the forum your tire choice (size, pressure, amount of wear, sidewall load rating, etc) will all come into play.

If you have trouble figuring out the precise center of the hub, you can do what I do - measure from the top lip of the rim to the fender, which will be about 14" of so. Then measure the diameter of your rim from lip to lip, divide by 2, and add it to your rim-to-fender measurement
 
Always measure from the center of the hub if you're trying to gauge the spring impact. Your fender-to-ground height will vary depending on tire pressure, and if you're trying to compare against other people on the forum your tire choice (size, pressure, amount of wear, sidewall load rating, etc) will all come into play.

If you have trouble figuring out the precise center of the hub, you can do what I do - measure from the top lip of the rim to the fender, which will be about 14" of so. Then measure the diameter of your rim from lip to lip, divide by 2, and add it to your rim-to-fender measurement
Thanks for the tip/formula, this puts me at:

RD: 24.0”
RP: 24.1”

Fronts are a hair above 22”
 
@TLC2013 I'll be happy if I get ~1.5" of rake back after I do my spring swap this weekend. I'm still on my Tough Dog standard springs but I charted my heights (using the top lip of my wheels, so add 9.75" to all measurements to get correct hub-to-fender measurements) and I'm definitely sitting lower now (front is ~22.5, rear is ~23).

Top row in the chart is the relevant one as that's my normal load with just a few psi in the airbags... everything else is the various stages of me setting up to tow.

1655914825788.png
 
That painted rear bumper has seen some action!!
yeah buddy!!! It's definitely built to be used. This is mostly from a trip to Moab about a year ago. I bet I wouldn't scrape as much with my new springs!? I think I'll haveto plan a trip back soon !
 
@TLC2013 I'll be happy if I get ~1.5" of rake back after I do my spring swap this weekend. I'm still on my Tough Dog standard springs but I charted my heights (using the top lip of my wheels, so add 9.75" to all measurements to get correct hub-to-fender measurements) and I'm definitely sitting lower now (front is ~22.5, rear is ~23).

Top row in the chart is the relevant one as that's my normal load with just a few psi in the airbags... everything else is the various stages of me setting up to tow.

View attachment 3040485
Nice spreadsheet, good stuff.
Based on what I am seeing after swapping the Tough Dog's (0-600 lbs) for these Ironman's (220-880 lbs), I would expect you to get at the minimum 1" of rake gained. May be closer to 1.5". This should get you where you want.
I loaded up the rear hatch with gear to see how these new springs would handle the weight. They do a much better job and didn't sag/compress much at all in comparison to the Tough Dog springs.
 
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Nice spreadsheet, good stuff.
Based on what I am seeing after swapping the Tough Dog's (0-600 lbs) for these Ironman's (220-880 lbs), I would expect you to get at the minimum 1" of rake gained. May be closer to 1.5". This should get you where you want.
I loaded up the rear hatch with gear to see how these new springs would handle the weight. They do a much better job and didn't sag/compress much at all in comparison to the Tough Dog springs.
Interesting. Maybe after I install them I'll go hook my trailer up and re-measure before I re-install the airbags. I hate to take the rear suspension apart a second time to do the airbags (as both times I've done it in the past getting the passenger's side spring out is a PITFA), but if my loaded weight leaves me level I might forgo them. As you can see right now I gain back about 7/8" by inflating the airbags.
 
Interesting. Maybe after I install them I'll go hook my trailer up and re-measure before I re-install the airbags. I hate to take the rear suspension apart a second time to do the airbags (as both times I've done it in the past getting the passenger's side spring out is a PITFA), but if my loaded weight leaves me level I might forgo them. As you can see right now I gain back about 7/8" by inflating the airbags.
It had been a couple years since I last tinkered with the rear springs and was dreading doing the rear passenger. Doing one side at a time, by jacking up just the side of the frame I was working on right before the rear trailing arm did the trick. I was able to get enough droop to easily remove and install the springs.
Disconnecting the passenger side sway bar was much easier then I remembered. I opened up the KDSS 3 turns and didn’t have any issues re-installing it. Using a floor jack to lift the sway bar and bolt it back into place was a breeze.
Hopefully these springs will negate your need for the air bags but if they don’t I wouldn't be too concerned about having to do the work twice to get the bags in. I was pleasantly surprised how smooth the install went. This method/technique was provided to me by @100kiwi and was so much easier.
 
Did my install yesterday. Definitely added about 1.25 to 1.5” of lift back. Front is 22.5” now (was 22.25” before, which is odd) and rear is 24” on the drivers side, 23 7/8” on the passengers side. Took about 4 hours start to finish. Plus about 30 min for me to extend my rear diff breather, which I decided to do once the diff bracket bolt broke on me.

I ended up disconnecting the passenger’s side sway bar only. Getting the bolt out was a bear as mine was inserted from the gas tank side so I had to really work to get it out without removing the tank skid. It was a bit of a pita to get back together and I had to use a ratchet strap as the arm wouldn’t align with the hole. When I put it back together I flipped the bolt so it installs from the wheel side and I put the nut on the tank side.

I ended up forgoing the airbags. Long story but since I had to source new internal bounce stops to cut for the new airbags, I decided to hitch up without them to see if I needed them with the new setup. Hitched up (but not fully loaded) I still had 0.25” of rake, so I don’t think I’ll need them anymore

05C74354-CD71-44B3-A1D7-FF4A19848C0D.jpeg
 
Did my install yesterday. Definitely added about 1.25 to 1.5” of lift back. Front is 22.5” now (was 22.25” before, which is odd) and rear is 24” on the drivers side, 23 7/8” on the passengers side. Took about 4 hours start to finish. Plus about 30 min for me to extend my rear diff breather, which I decided to do once the diff bracket bolt broke on me.

I ended up disconnecting the passenger’s side sway bar only. Getting the bolt out was a bear as mine was inserted from the gas tank side so I had to really work to get it out without removing the tank skid. It was a bit of a pita to get back together and I had to use a ratchet strap as the arm wouldn’t align with the hole. When I put it back together I flipped the bolt so it installs from the wheel side and I put the nut on the tank side.

I ended up forgoing the airbags. Long story but since I had to source new internal bounce stops to cut for the new airbags, I decided to hitch up without them to see if I needed them with the new setup. Hitched up (but not fully loaded) I still had 0.25” of rake, so I don’t think I’ll need them anymore

View attachment 3042941
Looks solid
 
Looks solid
I’m pleased. A hair firm when empty but that’s to be expected given I’ll add another 1000# when towing
 
I'm pretty happy with the result from the Ironman 220-880 coils, but for reference I would NOT recommend them if you're on the lighter side of that constant range. Even with the extra 200# of my bumper plus hanging the spare off the rear they are definitely as stiff as my old Tough Dog 0-660 coils were with the OEM bumper, if not a bit more. The TD coils felt really nice when I was driving around town now, but were just too soft when loaded with the family and also hitched up with the trailer. These coils are IMO going to be very similar to the OME 2723 coils, so for those considering them in the future ignore their listed spring rate and load range and use the OME ones.

FYI I don't know what a factory land cruiser actually weighs, but this was my rig last night with a full tank of gas and 300# of passengers in the front seats. In my estimation these springs really need ~4000# on the rear axle to not feel too stiff.

1656334445422.png


Semi-official measurements after swapping from the standard Tough Dog 0-660 rear springs to the Ironman 220-880 ones. I hitched up to my trailer to measure but didn't drive it or load it... will be doing that on our upcoming road trip. I expect to lose my remaining rake when the trailer is fully loaded. Debating if I'm willing to go through the effort tonight to put the 10mm trim packer on the RR side... I re-measured my rear this morning after driving ~200 miles and LR was 14.625 (RR was the same, but fronts were about 13" oddly). If I add the spacer it will get me very close to level when I'm *not* in the truck, though I may lean to the left a bit especially if I throw some water in the (currently empty) jerry can holder on the bumper.

Is there any semi-easy way to get a 10mm trim packer installed without removing the coil? Spring compressor? The passenger's side is such a PITA that for 1/4" to 3/8" difference I will likely forgo adding it. If it was the driver's side I'm pretty sure I could do it in 30 minutes as that one falls right out, but once I have to disconnect the KDSS arm it's a 2+ hour job to ratchet strap things back into alignment, and if I'm going to do it I have to do so after dinner tonight because I have an alignment set up tomorrow.

1656333344017.png
 
I was in a similar situation deciding on springs after ordering a rear bumper. I ended up going to 2724s. Rear dual swingout by Trail Tailor, homemade platform in the rear and tool bag underneath that platform. When I was loaded up for my past trip after installing bumper and springs it was perfect spring rate. Unloaded I've got rake back which is nice, but it is a little too much spring. Not jarring like a 1ton though. If you go with helper bags the 23s would be the perfect option from my experience on 24s.

The 21s will be too light of a spring for a rear bumper and trailer. I had trim packers in the rear to give rake to the 21s and would need a weight distribution to level the truck back out with my trailer.

Also the easiest way I've learned for removing passenger springs in taking the top nut off of the sway bar end link on passenger side and having it drop down. Picture to help explain what I meant.
View attachment 3010041

Maybe I was doing something wrong but I couldn't get that top nut off easily - there really wasn't much space to access it. I was able to remove the one in red, but then trying to get it reassembled required ratchet straps to pull the bottom of the arm towards the diff so I could fit the bolt through again. This worked but I didn't entirely enjoy this method... also I noticed the bushing was worn on one side on the lower part when I disassembled so now I'm committed to fixing it :-(

1656334757457.png
 
Maybe I was doing something wrong but I couldn't get that top nut off easily - there really wasn't much space to access it. I was able to remove the one in red, but then trying to get it reassembled required ratchet straps to pull the bottom of the arm towards the diff so I could fit the bolt through again. This worked but I didn't entirely enjoy this method... also I noticed the bushing was worn on one side on the lower part when I disassembled so now I'm committed to fixing it :-(

View attachment 3044200
When I did my spring install I removed the top nut shown in the image with the yellow arrow pointing to it. Used a 14mm racketing wrench. I don’t have any rust to contend with and it came loose easily. To re-install I used a floor jack under the sway bar around where the red arrow is pointing to. This was maybe at most a 5 -10min job for me and I am not the most efficient with my time when working on the 200 let alone any car lol.
 
When I did my spring install I removed the top nut shown in the image with the yellow arrow pointing to it. Used a 14mm racketing wrench. I don’t have any rust to contend with and it came loose easily. To re-install I used a floor jack under the sway bar around where the red arrow is pointing to. This was maybe at most a 5 -10min job for me and I am not the most efficient with my time when working on the 200 let alone any car lol.
Thanks. Ok maybe I'll give it a shot. I don't have a set of ratcheting wrenches (should probably add that to my wishlist) but if it's an extra 5 minutes for me to slip a regular wrench on/off I can live with that. (Or maybe I should just not care about 1/4-3/8" difference?)
 
Thanks. Ok maybe I'll give it a shot. I don't have a set of ratcheting wrenches (should probably add that to my wishlist) but if it's an extra 5 minutes for me to slip a regular wrench on/off I can live with that. (Or maybe I should just not care about 1/4-3/8" difference?)
I am a big fan of the racheting wrenches. Picked up a budget set at Costco a while back, they are holding up well for a $20 investment. I just don't use them to break anything loose. That top nut is surprisingly on there and takes a lot of rotations/turns to remove.
With these springs my rear varies from 1/4-1/2" difference. Since you have only a 3/8" difference I would leave it alone.
I ended up putting the longer one on the driver side which has always sat between 1/2" to 1" low on my 200 (when all stock and also lifted). I am now at less then <1/2" which is close enough to appease my OCD.

Have you messed with the Tough Dog shock adjustemnts since installing the new springs ? Mine are still on "4", dropping to "2" or "3" should take some of the firmness out.
 
Have you messed with the Tough Dog shock adjustemnts since installing the new springs ? Mine are still on "4", dropping to "2" or "3" should take some of the firmness out.
I haven't yet but will do so during my trip. I think I'm still at 4 as well
 
Ok so I caved and installed the spacer yesterday. Enlisted my 14 year old for some help and start to finish it took 2 hours. Likely a mechanic with a lift could do this in under an hour. @TLC2013 you are correct, removing the top nut from the passenger's side sway bar bushing is the way to do this. My notes for others future reference:
  • KDSS open (2.5-3 turns), jacked up and put on stands, wheels off, detached both shocks from the axle. Disconnect diff breather bracket and brake line bracket.
  • Disconnect the passenger's side sway bar bushing at the top nut. A ratcheting wrench would be a godsend here. I did not have one so it took about 200-300 tiny turns to get it off. Before detaching take note how much thread sticks out of that bolt.
  • Jack up the driver's side under the shock and compress it. Then push down on the axle on the passenger's side (a helper is very handy here), and the spring will twist out.
  • Internal jounce stop out, press spacer onto the stop, reinstall stop in spring
  • Repeat having the helper push the axle down so you can slide the spring in correctly. (I've done this before by myself but I felt like I needed a 3rd arm). Make sure the spring is turned and seated in the axle correctly (end of the pigtail fully turned into the lowest point) and that the top of the spring is correctly set in the upper lip
  • Reinstall driver's side shock and tire. Lower driver's side to the ground and remove the jack stand on that side, as you'll need it for the next part
  • Jack the passenger's side axle up under the LCA mount, and put your jack stand under the axle at the passenger's rear wheel. Then place the jack under the passenger's side sway bar arm and raise it up. If your jack is tall enough the end link will full seat in the mount and you can bolt it back together. If like me you're not quite that lucky, read on.
  • If you know the height of your jack and prepared for the above you might have put a block of wood on the floor jack to make it slightly taller. That would've been smart. I didn't. What I did was to slip a ratchet strap hook over the sway bar at the center of the diff, and secure the other end to the frame somewhere (I used the round bar near the receiver hitch that secures the spare tire, but any secure spot will do). Tighten ratchet strap slowly to help pull the sway bar back into alignment. This is also where a buddy is helpful as I only needed to pull the sway bar about 2" back to get it aligned and push the end link bolt fully into the bracket, and the bar isn't straight so you don't want to crank to hard or your ratchet strap might slip off.
  • Reinstall the bushing/washer/bolt and tighten. FSM says 22 ft/lbs but I don't have a torque wrench that would fit into that spot so I just winged it based on the original amount of thread I could see, how much the bushing seemed to squish, and just general "feel" for tightness.
  • Remove ratchet strap first, then lower the jack
  • Reattach passenger's side rear shock, brake mounting bolt(s), and diff breather mount bolt. jack up axle to remove the jack stand, reattach P/S rear wheel, lower vehicle
  • Tighten shock bolts to 72 ft/lbs, lug nuts to 97 ft/lbs.
  • Close KDSS valves and tighten to 10 ft/lbs
Before (no spacer), 200 miles after spring swap:
D/S rear: 24.375
P/S rear: 24.00

After 10mm spacer (>3/8") and 5-6 miles of city driving:
D/S rear: 24.375
P/S rear: 24.25

Huh, that's odd, I would have expected them to be the same, or very slightly more on the P/S side since my measurements pre-spacer were 0.25" to 0.375" difference. I'll re-measure later as I'm wondering if the fluid in the KDSS didn't quite equalize or the suspension is bound up a bit.
 
Ok so I caved and installed the spacer yesterday. Enlisted my 14 year old for some help and start to finish it took 2 hours. Likely a mechanic with a lift could do this in under an hour. @TLC2013 you are correct, removing the top nut from the passenger's side sway bar bushing is the way to do this. My notes for others future reference:
  • KDSS open (2.5-3 turns), jacked up and put on stands, wheels off, detached both shocks from the axle. Disconnect diff breather bracket and brake line bracket.
  • Disconnect the passenger's side sway bar bushing at the top nut. A ratcheting wrench would be a godsend here. I did not have one so it took about 200-300 tiny turns to get it off. Before detaching take note how much thread sticks out of that bolt.
  • Jack up the driver's side under the shock and compress it. Then push down on the axle on the passenger's side (a helper is very handy here), and the spring will twist out.
  • Internal jounce stop out, press spacer onto the stop, reinstall stop in spring
  • Repeat having the helper push the axle down so you can slide the spring in correctly. (I've done this before by myself but I felt like I needed a 3rd arm). Make sure the spring is turned and seated in the axle correctly (end of the pigtail fully turned into the lowest point) and that the top of the spring is correctly set in the upper lip
  • Reinstall driver's side shock and tire. Lower driver's side to the ground and remove the jack stand on that side, as you'll need it for the next part
  • Jack the passenger's side axle up under the LCA mount, and put your jack stand under the axle at the passenger's rear wheel. Then place the jack under the passenger's side sway bar arm and raise it up. If your jack is tall enough the end link will full seat in the mount and you can bolt it back together. If like me you're not quite that lucky, read on.
  • If you know the height of your jack and prepared for the above you might have put a block of wood on the floor jack to make it slightly taller. That would've been smart. I didn't. What I did was to slip a ratchet strap hook over the sway bar at the center of the diff, and secure the other end to the frame somewhere (I used the round bar near the receiver hitch that secures the spare tire, but any secure spot will do). Tighten ratchet strap slowly to help pull the sway bar back into alignment. This is also where a buddy is helpful as I only needed to pull the sway bar about 2" back to get it aligned and push the end link bolt fully into the bracket, and the bar isn't straight so you don't want to crank to hard or your ratchet strap might slip off.
  • Reinstall the bushing/washer/bolt and tighten. FSM says 22 ft/lbs but I don't have a torque wrench that would fit into that spot so I just winged it based on the original amount of thread I could see, how much the bushing seemed to squish, and just general "feel" for tightness.
  • Remove ratchet strap first, then lower the jack
  • Reattach passenger's side rear shock, brake mounting bolt(s), and diff breather mount bolt. jack up axle to remove the jack stand, reattach P/S rear wheel, lower vehicle
  • Tighten shock bolts to 72 ft/lbs, lug nuts to 97 ft/lbs.
  • Close KDSS valves and tighten to 10 ft/lbs
Before (no spacer), 200 miles after spring swap:
D/S rear: 24.375
P/S rear: 24.00

After 10mm spacer (>3/8") and 5-6 miles of city driving:
D/S rear: 24.375
P/S rear: 24.25

Huh, that's odd, I would have expected them to be the same, or very slightly more on the P/S side since my measurements pre-spacer were 0.25" to 0.375" difference. I'll re-measure later as I'm wondering if the fluid in the KDSS didn't quite equalize or the suspension is bound up a bit.
Nice work, glad you knocked it out. I have noticed it took a good week for my suspension and KDSS to resettle. My fronts also increased significantly with the rear spring install. I think it had to do with me running the shorter Tough Dog spring on the rear passenger side, it consequently led to the front passenger being low. The Ironman springs only have a 10mm difference while the Tough Dogs have a huge 30mm difference between the RD and RP. I am now between 1/4” and 1/2” between Driver and Passenger depending on the time of day. I can live with it, I am a wee bit envious of your measurements !


Hub to fender with the new Ironmans after a week of use:

FD: 22.75
FP: 22.5

RD: 24
RP: 24.5
 
Nice work, glad you knocked it out. I have noticed it took a good week for my suspension and KDSS to resettle. My fronts also increased significantly with the rear spring install. I think it had to do with me running the shorter Tough Dog spring on the rear passenger side, it consequently led to the front passenger being low. The Ironman springs only have a 10mm difference while the Tough Dogs have a huge 30mm difference between the RD and RP. I am now between 1/4” and 1/2” between Driver and Passenger depending on the time of day. I can live with it, I am a wee bit envious of your measurements !


Hub to fender with the new Ironmans after a week of use:

FD: 22.75
FP: 22.5

RD: 24
RP: 24.5
Yeah I was surprised that I added at least 0.25" up front. Not sure if that's an artifact of opening the KDSS screws and the KDSS re-balancing or what.

Apparently I didn't quite knock it out. After taking the measurements last night and looked it over this morning to make sure everything was tight and I noticed the P/S rear coil wasn't properly seated in the bottom seat on the axle - it's slightly past the "stop" point. I'm sure it was right when I seated the coil initially but then it must have shifted while we were reattaching things. D'oh. Going to put a spring compressor on and try to jack up just the P/S and see if I can turn it, or maybe tap it into place by hitting the bottom end of the coil with a hammer or something to get it to slip correctly into the spot as I don't really want to disconnect the sway bar again...
 

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