Rear spring recommendation

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Ordered directly thru email with AirbagMan and they shipped DHL no prob. Actually just got the box today. Under two weeks for me
@DRRichey did you have any trouble ordering from AirBagMan AU? I ordered their kit on eBay from ozautoparts and a few weeks later they cancelled my order with the following message:

Hi, Thanks for your purchase.

Unfortunately Airbags internationally is a security flight risk with Australian customs as they're classified as dangerous goods, we will need to refund the order in full for you.

Sorry for the inconvenience this has caused.​

Kind Regards

OzAutoParts Team

So I punted and ordered the Firestone kit available in the US. I would like to get the sleeves and other parts they bundle with the bags. Who did you order from?

Thanks.
 
I think the Icon stage 1 kits come with rear springs. There might be markings on them if you clean them off and look closely. I know the Toyota springs have some colored paint markings on them but I can't imagine reusing the factory springs with any lift kit.

Take a look but it's most likely these springs, which are already progressive. There's no coil rate listed though my hunch is they are going to be similar to the 2721...

Do not get progressives if your rig weighs more than stock. You'll lose a ton of ride height
 
Currently running OME 2724s / king 2.5s / firestone airbags

Air down gear up drawers w/ fridge
rlc dual rear swingout
40 gal LRA tank
full bud built skids
315/70/17 load range E tires with 25mm offset icon wheels
roughly 4k-4300 lb rear axle

She rides great and stuffs pretty good

20220212_093653.jpg
 
Thanks, I will be curious to see how much height you lose from the bumper and the tire hanging off the back.

Towing is the wildcard for me, since adding another 850# on the hitch really changes everything. (or more if my fresh water tank is full). The airbags help level and stiffen but they can only do so much

I took some measurements today. My tire swing out is on driver side. Full tank gas. Dropped 1/2” driver and 1/8” on passenger.

I loaded my gear and spare parts and dropped both sides another 1/8”. I’m sitting pretty level. With the progressive 2721 springs another 200 lbs of crap won’t drop it a lot more and I’ll essentially be riding on constant springs. I’ll ride this way for a while. Ultimately I’ll need to change when I add drawers and aux tank.

Edit: I remembered I had taken some deflection measurements with different loads in the cargo area when I installed the 2721s (w/o rear Bumper):

lbs deflection
0 0
100 1/4"
200 1/4"
300 1/2"
400 5/8"
500 3/4"

My current 1/2" squat on the driver doesn't really make sense with this data but the passenger only squatted 1/8" so maybe its just the affect of the spare tire cantilevered further from the axil and on the driver side.
 
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Get King Springs in a progressive rate
Have you (or has anyone) seen the actual spring rates? King Springs progressives are 100-300kg and 40-50mm lift, but I can't tell how that compares to OME for instance.
 
OME lists their spring rates in their overseas catalog, I think I have the catalog for King -
I have the OME PDF. If you have the one for King (or any other vendors) I’d be very interested.

I really like my Tough Dog standard duty rears (240#) but I think I would prefer a progressive for towing performance (even with the airbags I have) like the OME 2721 (270->340#). I’m adding a rear bumper with dual swingouts so another 200# plus the leverage of moving the tire back, plus any water/fuel weight, so I feel like I’m going to need to step up to the 340# spring, but OME doesn’t have another progressive (but King does).

I’m making broad assumptions based solely on spring “weight” though… in fairness I’m guessing in any case, I just want to make the guess semi-educated
 
Ok I've spent obscenely too much time on this. Bumper is painted and ready for installation this weekend. Pre-bumper I have the Tough Dog TDC931L springs and when I'm loaded with family and cooler I sit very level (no rake), or a bit of squat if I have the trailer hooked up... measurements below from top lip of my 17" Icon wheels to the fender (I used that instead of the center hub because it's hard to determine the precise center):

SetupLFRFLRRR
Vehicle only, airbags at 5psi1212.513.514
Trailer hitched, no weight dist.131311.512.25
Trailer hitched, WD set12.7512.512.2512.75
Trailer hitched, WD set, 30 psi12.7512.51313.25

I've got about 1.5" of rake when empty right now. I'm running about 1" of squat when trailered but otherwise unladen with no family or camping gear (1/2"-3/4" too high in the front, 1/2"-3/4" too low in the rear). Laden with family and dog and it's another 300# in the rear. And I haven't yet added 200# of bumper plus all the leverage associated with crap hanging off the rear. Thus even without have actually installed it yet (hoping to do it this weekend) I'm pretty damn sure I will need to step up the rear springs. That said, without the trailer but with an extra 300# in the trunk (kid + dog) the ride is spot on plush and perfect right now.

I charted all the rear spring options I could find that would be relevant. Info below is what the vendors claim. My setup is in green. Options I'm currently considering are in orange. It's interesting to me how some of the numbers line up but others don't. For instance the heights, coil wraps, wire diameter, and #/in ratings between the King KTRR-131HHD and OME2723 are nearly identical, but the King spring is rated for 100kg more constant load. They also look similar to the Tough Dog TDC931VHL spring but that has a minimum constant load rating at the top of the King and OME max range - and that plus my current experience with the basic Tough Dog spring makes me think the constant load ratings somehow matter more than the free height, wire diameter, and compression specs. OME and IronMan spring options are half the cost of the Tough Dog and King options in the USA... otherwise I'd likely just step up to the next TD spring.

vendorpart #l/h mmr/h mmcoilswire mmlow lb/inhigh lb/inmin load kgmax constant kgmin load lbmax const lb
King SpringsKTRR-131H
450​
470​
7.2​
18​
240​
100​
250​
220​
550​
King SpringsKTRR-131HD
430​
450​
7.2​
19​
275​
100​
300​
220​
660​
King SpringsKTRR-131HHD
430​
450​
7.2​
20​
340​
300​
500​
660​
1100​
King SpringsKTPR-131HD
435​
455​
8.4​
19​
250​
350​
100​
300​
220​
660​
OMEOME-2721 0" lift
430​
440​
8.42​
18.5​
270​
350​
0​
0​
OMEOME-2722 1" lift
430​
440​
7.2​
19​
275​
0​
200​
0​
440​
OMEOME-2723 1" lift
440​
450​
7.2​
20​
340​
200​
400​
440​
880​
OMEOME-2724 1" lift
435​
445​
7.2​
21​
400​
400​
600​
880​
1320​
OMEOME-2725 1" lift
435​
445​
7.71​
22​
440​
600​
1320​
Tough DogTDC931L 1" lift
445​
475​
7.2​
18​
240​
0​
300​
0​
660​
Tough DogTDC931HL 1" lift
425​
455​
7.2​
19​
275​
300​
500​
660​
1100​
Tough DogTDC931VHL 1" lift
425​
455​
7.2​
20​
340​
500​
1100​
BilsteinB12 53-297686
180​
396​
EibachE30-82-072-04-02414414300
90​
180​
198​
396​
IconDual Rate 52750??
0​
0​
Trail TailorTourflex Standard
505​
515​
9.77​
100​
300​
220​
660​
Trail TailorTourflex HD
545​
555​
19.5​
180​
320​
300​
660​
IronmanTOY064A 1" lift
425​
440​
19​
269​
0​
200​
0​
440​
IronmanTOY064B 2" lift
455​
470​
19​
269​
0​
300​
0​
660​
IronmanTOY064EA 2" lift
465​
475​
20​
286​
100​
400​
220​
880​
IronmanTOY064C 2" lift
455​
465​
21​
371​
400​
880​
 
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@linuxgod which bumper are you installing (steel or aluminum) ? I am also running the 45mm Tough Dog lift and before adding swingouts to my Dissent rear bumper, which is aluminum, it didn’t result in more then 1/3-1/2” reduction in rake. Still maintained about 1-1.5” of rake. Since adding the dual swing outs I am basically level with or about 1/2” of rake. Fully loaded with camping gear and dog the rake is gone or maybe even negative. Having the spare tire on the swing out really puts the weight far back and reduces rake.

I am considering changing springs or adding 10mm spacers to both sides. Keep us updated in your decision process. Interested to see where this goes.
 
I have been running Icon duel rates rear coils with bilstein 5160/6112 shocks since I first lifted my 200 about 2 years ago. This setup was fantastic without any armor. I loved the feel! I then added a 30 mm rear spacer when adding my dissent rear bumper with duel swing outs. This setup was alright when my rig was empty, but anytime I really geared down it was just too soft and had no to negative rake. 2 weeks ago ordered the Ironman heavy 2'' (880 lbs) I am just about to install these items this weekend. I am not a fan of the green coils, but with their 25% off sale, they were $181 shipped! I was looking into OME, but I was pretty surprised to see there is a big jump in price to about $400 for the 2724's!
I really wish you had that beautiful Chart a couple weeks ago @linuxgod . Its going to come in handy to a lot of people in the future. I'll
 
a little bit late to the party, but I initially had 2724s installed with king 2.5’s, bud skid and sliders, 24 LRA, dissent rear bumper with Swing out and they were massively too stiff. Went to 2723s. much better. I don’t tow (generally) with that truck, but I think the 2723s are a better option.

If you want to try the 2724s…… let me know. They are just collecting dust on the shelf.
 
@TLC2013 i bought an RLC bumper. It’s steel. I love the Trail Tailor stuff and would really love the weight reduction from Dissent, but RLC was less than half the cost.

@DJCloz thanks for the tip. I’m going to try the Ironman 220-880 coils. Their specs look like a 2723 but a bit more free length. At $175 delivered in 2 days I feel like that’s a winner and I’m sure I can recoup most of that if I want to sell them. The annoying thing is each swap normally requires new airbags since they stretch and form to the coil, but maybe I’ll skip filling them for a few days at first. We’ll see how it goes.

@fos373 if these springs don’t work out i will take you up on that offer.
 
I run the 2724.

The vehicle is smooth at all times especial compared with my Jeeps.

I have the 3rd row seats deleted, dual set of 1045 draws, 40 gallon LRA and rear ARB bumper.
Sometimes have the draws loaded, a 101 ARB fridge, and the tank full, and a trailer.
Sometimes it's empty back there and the rear tank is also empty.

At all times it rides smooth.
 
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but I would go progressive… Jason’s tourflex are incredible. I have them on my LC and loved them.

Also, I would like to mention I’m not a fan of icon products but their rear springs are worth a look.
 
Great chart. i can only add anecdotal info... I have the 2721's with Bilstein dampers+ firestone bags, + LR E KO2's - empty, bags aired out, and tires at 48psi the rear feels more stiff than stock and while not unpleasant, I definitely prefer the feel of the truck with about 300lbs of tongue weight and a loaded cargo bay - this seems to put the truck into the "sweet ride" range for this type of spring IMHO (and no real need to air up bags at this load level -I planned for heavier trailer, but ended up with much more nimble option).... and hence why i am constantly looking for excuses to hookup the cricket and go hit the trails!
 
Great chart. i can only add anecdotal info... I have the 2721's with Bilstein dampers+ firestone bags, + LR E KO2's - empty, bags aired out, and tires at 48psi the rear feels more stiff than stock and while not unpleasant, I definitely prefer the feel of the truck with about 300lbs of tongue weight and a loaded cargo bay - this seems to put the truck into the "sweet ride" range for this type of spring IMHO (and no real need to air up bags at this load level -I planned for heavier trailer, but ended up with much more nimble option).... and hence why i am constantly looking for excuses to hookup the cricket and go hit the trails!
Thanks. That’s pretty much my experience with the light load Tough Dog springs too. The trick for me is finding a reasonably comfortable setup when not towing but stiff enough that with the trailer and air bags I’m reasonably close to level.

If the Ironman medium 220-880 springs are too stiff unhitched I will step down to the 2721, which I think would be similar to my Tough Dog setup but with more support when under serious load. If they sag too much I’ll step up to the next level, but at least based on research and limited experience I really can’t see needing a full GVM spring setup when I’m not towing as I’m right at GVWR with the family and full camping gear (but no trailer) right now - so even with the bumper empty would be harsh with a GVM spring rate
 
If you want to try the Ironman performance loads let me know. I have a set sitting in the garage.

Estimated Lift 2"
Additional Load 0-660LBS
Material Diameter19mm
Free Height470/455mm
Spring Rate269(lbf/in)

Just as a comparison, these are very similar both in lift and spring rate as the ARB 2722 springs which have a free height of 440/430 and 275lbs constant spring rate.
 
If you want to try the Ironman performance loads let me know. I have a set sitting in the garage.

Estimated Lift 2"
Additional Load 0-660LBS
Material Diameter19mm
Free Height470/455mm
Spring Rate269(lbf/in)

Just as a comparison, these are very similar both in lift and spring rate as the ARB 2722 springs which have a free height of 440/430 and 275lbs constant spring rate.
Thanks. The Tough Dog springs I have are 18mm but have a similar 0-660# load rating, so I am pretty sure I will need to go up at least one “firmness” level.

Ultimately I bought the Ironman medium load springs which are 220-880# and a 20mm bar diameter. The spring rate is lower but they otherwise look like a 2723 with 1” additional lift. I can’t imagine I’ll need to go softer once I’m done, the real question will be if I feel like I need even more support when towing but don’t feel too harsh when empty do I step up further…
 
Thanks. The Tough Dog springs I have are 18mm but have a similar 0-660# load rating, so I am pretty sure I will need to go up at least one “firmness” level.

Ultimately I bought the Ironman medium load springs which are 220-880# and a 20mm bar diameter. The spring rate is lower but they otherwise look like a 2723 with 1” additional lift. I can’t imagine I’ll need to go softer once I’m done, the real question will be if I feel like I need even more support when towing but don’t feel too harsh when empty do I step up further…
I gotcha, just throwing it out there. I am also running 2723s after leaving the ironmans. They seems a tad stiff on the daily (see signature for the daily with drawers having 100ish lbs of tools and recovery gear), but with a little weight they are beautiful. I also have bags for towing a 24ft enclosed car trailer. Feels good with about 25lbs of air and a distribution hitch. I know my tongue weight is pushing it too because of the V-nose trailer and the tool box, tires, and pit bike stuffed in there. On a scale, the rear axle is a just under 5000lbs.
 

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