Rear spring recommendation

[linuxgod]

I'm thinking about adding a rear dual swingout bumper...

I currently have the Tough Dog standard duty lift and I'm pretty happy with the performance. The rear springs are 240#/in. I have a single drawer (driver's side with probably 100-150# in stuff), sliders, and roof rack. It's a tad stiff when empty, but with a family of 5 the ride is spot-on with a kid or a dog in the 3rd row. When towing (which adds 850# or so to the rear) the ride's OK though even with airbags inflated to 30psi I wish I had a bit more support.

I'm thinking OME 2723 which is 340#/in. Those are supposedly for constantly loads of 440#, which feels about right (without actually installing one). The 2724 is a much higher constant load which I'm not going to hit weight-wise for normal driving, though they'd be better for towing. I don't want to drive like an empty 1 ton truck around town.

Any thoughts/feedback on the 2723 vs 2724? Any other options that would be a good fit? Anyone got a set they want to sell?

 

[dcs111]

This is funny, considering you are the guy who I have collected a ton of knowledge from via this forum… have you looked at the base spring rate for the 2721 (progressives)?

 

[linuxgod]

This is funny, considering you are the guy who I have collected a ton of knowledge from via this forum… have you looked at the base spring rate for the 2721 (progressives)?

Heh, yeah I know. It's one thing to know what you want from reading and doing research, it's another to have experience using it. Or as my kids say "knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing you don't put tomatoes in a fruit salad..."

The 2721 is 270/340. I *think* that would be the perfect spring for my current setup without a bumper, but where I tow a heavy trailer. If I'm adding 200# or so to the rear, plus the physics of a 90# tire hanging off the back, my sense is I need to go heavier, particularly for when I tow. But maybe I don't? (Hence my question here...)

 

[dcs111]

FWIW I have the 2721s with bags and the truck was really happy (high speed dirt roads/ highway/ non-technical trails) last time we had it loaded down (loaded roof box, loaded to the gills cargo area, 4 people, 4 mountain bikes on a 1up, etc) for a cross country. I would not be able to offer what a bumper added with a heavy tow combo would do… good news is rear springs are relatively cheap and not the most difficult thing to swap! I know you will keep us posted and so back to spectating and learning from ya

 

[linuxgod]

FWIW I have the 2721s with bags and the truck was really happy (high speed dirt roads/ highway/ non-technical trails) last time we had it loaded down (loaded roof box, loaded to the gills cargo area, 4 people, 4 mountain bikes on a 1up, etc) for a cross country. I would not be able to offer what a bumper added with a heavy tow combo would do… good news is rear springs are relatively cheap and not the most difficult thing to swap! I know you will keep us posted and so back to spectating and learning from ya

Thanks. Yeah a pair of springs is $250 and I'm sure I can sell used ones so that's not a big expense. Annoyingly I've found every time I have to swap the air bags I end up having to replace them though as they seem to stretch a bit and are difficult to remove from the old springs. Also I have a lot of trouble getting the passenger's side spring in and out (driver's side seems to fall out easily though), but I've heard removing the panhard rod may help with it.

I'm sure the 2721 would be the perfect spring for my existing setup since I'm already at 240#/in so going to 270#/in with a heavier 340#/in to support the trailer load would seem ideal. But bumper + physics makes me think it's going to be insufficient particularly once I I hitch up

 

[Dunbar]

Subscribed. I have ICON stage one that the PO installed. I have no idea what the rear springs mfg are nor the rate. I'm about to add air bags and will be towing heavy. Progressives would be good. How can I tell what springs on the back are and what the rate is?

 

[linuxgod]

Subscribed. I have ICON stage one that the PO installed. I have no idea what the rear springs mfg are nor the rate. I'm about to add air bags and will be towing heavy. Progressives would be good. How can I tell what springs on the back are and what the rate is?

I think the Icon stage 1 kits come with rear springs. There might be markings on them if you clean them off and look closely. I know the Toyota springs have some colored paint markings on them but I can't imagine reusing the factory springs with any lift kit.

Take a look but it's most likely these springs, which are already progressive. There's no coil rate listed though my hunch is they are going to be similar to the 2721...

ICON 2008-Up Toyota Land Cruiser, Rear 1.75

ICON 2008-Up Toyota Land Cruiser, Rear 1.75

www.iconvehicledynamics.com

 

[CharlieS]

Also I have a lot of trouble getting the passenger's side spring in and out (driver's side seems to fall out easily though), but I've heard removing the panhard rod may help with it.

I find removing the bump stop (to make a flat surface to push against) then putting a scissor jack between the axle and frame makes it easy to swap that passenger spring.

 

[linuxgod]

I find removing the bump stop (to make a flat surface to push against) then putting a scissor jack between the axle and frame makes it easy to swap that passenger spring.

I may try that next time.

I ran across the Icon instructions recently and they say to remove the panhard rod, whereas the Tough Dog video instructions I'd used previously didn't mention that. No idea how much of a PITA realignment will be if I detach it (sway bar realignment always seems to suck when I've done this before) but if I can avoid doing so that would rock.

 

[CharlieS]

I've removed the panhard on one (was replacing it anyway) and had to use ratchet straps to get it back together. No big deal, but more hassle than the jack method.

 

[prharper]

I'm thinking about adding a rear dual swingout bumper...

I currently have the Tough Dog standard duty lift and I'm pretty happy with the performance. The rear springs are 240#/in. I have a single drawer (driver's side with probably 100-150# in stuff), sliders, and roof rack. It's a tad stiff when empty, but with a family of 5 the ride is spot-on with a kid or a dog in the 3rd row. When towing (which adds 850# or so to the rear) the ride's OK though even with airbags inflated to 30psi I wish I had a bit more support.

I'm thinking OME 2723 which is 340#/in. Those are supposedly for constantly loads of 440#, which feels about right (without actually installing one). The 2724 is a much higher constant load which I'm not going to hit weight-wise for normal driving, though they'd be better for towing. I don't want to drive like an empty 1 ton truck around town.

Any thoughts/feedback on the 2723 vs 2724? Any other options that would be a good fit? Anyone got a set they want to sell?

Got two drawers, sliders and fridge/freezer. When Slee installed my LRA 24 and their dual swing out bumper, they upgraded springs to 2724's. No complaints.

 

[TeCKis300]

Are your tough dog shocks adjustable for damping?

I suspect some of what you're looking for with more stability is about damping. Airbags should be able to give you all the spring rate you're looking for with load. Challenge may be that you need to match the increased rate with more damping, as otherwise the shocks are going to be overwhelmed to handle the load.

Are you going to keep the airbags with new springs? I think it's still a good balance to get the duality of off-road performance combined with load handling capability, even with dual swing-outs. I had an opportunity to speak to an Icon suspension engineering that was visiting my neighbor as I noticed his awesome built Tacoma with dual shock tons of custom work - he chases the lower spring rates paired with damping tuning to maximize off-road performance.

Which leads to potentially another option which is to upgrade the dampers. Over-damping or better adjustable dampers may be a good tuning strategy without going overkill on spring rate that'll limit articulation and compliance which is the name of the game off-road.

 

[kcjaz]

Thanks. Yeah a pair of springs is $250 and I'm sure I can sell used ones so that's not a big expense. Annoyingly I've found every time I have to swap the air bags I end up having to replace them though as they seem to stretch a bit and are difficult to remove from the old springs. Also I have a lot of trouble getting the passenger's side spring in and out (driver's side seems to fall out easily though), but I've heard removing the panhard rod may help with it.

I'm sure the 2721 would be the perfect spring for my existing setup since I'm already at 240#/in so going to 270#/in with a heavier 340#/in to support the trailer load would seem ideal. But bumper + physics makes me think it's going to be insufficient particularly once I I hitch up

FWIW, I have 2721s and just installed Dissent with dual swingouts. I took measurements before the install so I will know what the deflection is. I haven't measured yet post install so I can't tell you where I ended up but I will take the measurements and share. I also have 30mm spacers. I don't have drawers but I do carry 2 large covered storage bins with gear. Empty I had 30mm more lift in back than the front. fully loaded before I still had a little rake. I think I'll end up level to very slight rake with new bumper.

 

[chriscosta416]

Get King Springs in a progressive rate

 

[linuxgod]

FWIW, I have 2721s and just installed Dissent with dual swingouts. I took measurements before the install so I will know what the deflection is. I haven't measured yet post install so I can't tell you where I ended up but I will take the measurements and share. I also have 30mm spacers. I don't have drawers but I do carry 2 large covered storage bins with gear. Empty I had 30mm more lift in back than the front. fully loaded before I still had a little rake. I think I'll end up level to very slight rake with new bumper.

Thanks, I will be curious to see how much height you lose from the bumper and the tire hanging off the back.

Towing is the wildcard for me, since adding another 850# on the hitch really changes everything. (or more if my fresh water tank is full). The airbags help level and stiffen but they can only do so much

 

[residualboulders]

I also have the 2721s. Rides nice around town with a fridge (big dometic 75) in the back but otherwise empty. Slight rake. Recently had it loaded with gear and kids for a road trip. I didn't see that I lost any rake, but the ride was a little too cushy for my liking. So i adjusted the BP51s to stiffen it up and it was great. Adjusted the shocks back when we got home and the rig was empty again.

I was surprised when hitching up my loaded 3 place snowmobile trailer that it didn't cause the springs to sag that much. I do think it would definitely tow/feel better with airbags though.

I also plan on adding a dual swing out bumper when they are available and debating an extended range tank. My concerns are the same as yours though, don't want it to ride really stiff when I don't have occupants or aux tank happens to be empty.

 

[dcs111]

I also have the 2721s. Rides nice around town with a fridge (big dometic 75) in the back but otherwise empty. Slight rake. Recently had it loaded with gear and kids for a road trip. I didn't see that I lost any rake, but the ride was a little too cushy for my liking. So i adjusted the BP51s to stiffen it up and it was great. Adjusted the shocks back when we got home and the rig was empty again.

I was surprised when hitching up my loaded 3 place snowmobile trailer that it didn't cause the springs to sag that much. I do think it would definitely tow/feel better with airbags though.

I also plan on adding a dual swing out bumper when they are available and debating an extended range tank. My concerns are the same as yours though, don't want it to ride really stiff when I don't have occupants or aux tank happens to be empty.

+1 to bags…

 

[linuxgod]

+1 to bags…

They do help, but they're not the solution by themselves. IMO we should spec our rigs for proper spring weight first, and then use airbags to supplement for abnormal loads (like a trailer). Technically Firestone says they don't increase load carrying capacity though I think the supplemental support to spring rate does help.

FWIW I find when I hitch up I'll regain about 3/4" when I inflate the airbags from 5psi to 35psi. So if you're throwing an extra 800-1000# on the rear they aren't going to magically get you back to factory ride height.

TBH I think AHC is probably the best answer where vehicle load varies greatly since it will ensure the vehicle is level, but it's not feasible to add it on if you didn't start with an LX.

I do think 2721 or 2723 both with airbags is my answer though. I toyed with the 2724s but I'm not always loaded down so I think they will make my ride harsh. If there was a progressive spring that was a bit heavier than the 2721 (i.e. 320#-400#) I think that would be ideal, but I've not found one (aside from the Trail Tailor Tourflex, but I thought I read those were quite a bit heavier and designed for fully built rigs).

 

[DRRichey]

Same boat as you.

Drawers, 40 LRA, Kaymar w/ spare and jerry. I tow a 5-6k trailer with about 500-600lb tongue weight.

I have the Constant load Ironman rears which are 371lb/in (2724 is 400lb/in) - adding 10mm rear trim packer and awaiting my high pressure airbags from AirbagMan AU

Should be able to hold level with a full load of fuel, kids, doggos, tools, & trailer.

 

[Dunbar]

Same boat as you.

Drawers, 40 LRA, Kaymar w/ spare and jerry. I tow a 5-6k trailer with about 500-600lb tongue weight.

I have the Constant load Ironman rears which are 371lb/in (2724 is 400lb/in) - adding 10mm rear trim packer and awaiting my high pressure airbags from AirbagMan AU

Should be able to hold level with a full load of fuel, kids, doggos, tools, & trailer.

@DRRichey did you have any trouble ordering from AirBagMan AU? I ordered their kit on eBay from ozautoparts and a few weeks later they cancelled my order with the following message:

Hi, Thanks for your purchase. Unfortunately Airbags internationally is a security flight risk with Australian customs as they're classified as dangerous goods, we will need to refund the order in full for you. Sorry for the inconvenience this has caused.​ Kind Regards OzAutoParts Team So I punted and ordered the Firestone kit available in the US. I would like to get the sleeves and other parts they bundle with the bags. Who did you order from? Thanks. Reply​