RCVs or CVs for +2" Axle

[Delancy]

Been beat to death elsewhere, and hoping the previous participants to the debate still participate here.

Front DS CV is popping at full lock (ride height), and may have been for longer than I thought. I had assumed that the tires were still rubbing on the fender seam, but a closer inspection revealed that it doesn't appear to be the case.

FJROHRs has a trail spare (Metal Tech built, same as mine) I'm hoping to get my hands on in coming days to swap, but looking at long term options to maintain the longer front end.

I recollect someone having issues with the RCVs at full travel on their Camburg's, but considering the difference in the Total Chaos +2" achievable travel in comparison, curious of anyone knows if an issue for.

The RCVs are touted as bulletproof, but the Titanic was unsinkable. If pushing the failure point to the front differential, not sure that bulletproof is better. Rather swap an axle than differential, though the latter would, at least, be easier to get home with.

Or should I familiarize myself with swapping CVs?

Solid axle may be years down the road considering the ever growing budget on the 80, so save the suggestions to do now. It's inevitable, but not in the next few weeks, and not sure how long this CV will hold, anyway.

Any takers?

 

[Mtbcoach]

My 2 cents...

First off, RCV doesn't list the product any longer on their website. I've been told that they can/will make the CV for the FJC, just not a "listed" product any longer.

Next, the RCV's are an outstanding product. I sent 2 brand new OEM CV's to them for their "conversion", couldn't have been happier with their product fit and finish. Very high end product.

Next, with my set up (started with OME 885/N140 to 886 springs to ICON front/Total Chaos UCA/weld on spindle gusset, OME 895/N71e rear, both swaybars removed), I adjusted my ICON's such that I could not get any binding at full droop with the RCV's, ~3.5" of lift measured at the fender @ axle center. I wanted as much lift as I could achieve without putting the CV's at risk of high wear and/or breakage. That had been the theory I was operating on and it worked well for me. I made multiple trips from NC to UT/CO with this set up and have always been pleased in how well my suspension worked on and off road.

Next, this comes from a guy that never popped a CV, seen many done but never had the first hand experience of breaking my own. I've replaced them, helped on the trail and done them in my garage, being one of the reasons I wanted to go with the RCV, not wanting to have to do that work on the trail.

Next, I had an "issue" with mine and should bring full disclosure on my experience. The story goes: user installed, went with a couple friends to the Black MT OHV in Harlan KY to do some wheeling. I intended to give the RCV's a "test" and I did. ARB locked, spinning front wheels, sawing the steering wheel back and forth, trying to find traction, stupid stuff I've never done before with the OEM CV's. No problems other than getting down a trail way over my head, having to turn around and use the winch to get back out.

Part 2 of the story involves a left behind camera at the first stop of the morning run meant having to go back and get it, hoping the $3k of photographic equipment was still there. My inner rally driver came out in me such that I was jumping, bottoming the front end, hammering it as hard as I'd ever driving it in a "fire-road" trail, pushing the CV's throughout their full range of motion in 4H.

Part 3 of the story goes...after going through the car wash in town, I get some rubbing while driving down the road, what? Next thing I know is I can hardly control the FJC and I'm pulling over to the shoulder. Diagnosis: the 6 bolts that hold the axle to the inner came loose, the last one holding it together bent as it let go. Clearly, installation error occured, at least I'll take that responsibility. I never checked with RCV regarding proper torque specs and/or if the use of a thread-lock was necessary.

I have no firm idea when they came loose but, upon reflection, the rig was driving very "drifty" on the way to Harlan and I attributed it to towing the Exped trailer. I don't know if one, two or three bolts were free when I was abusing the RCV CV's but I know that they survived the abuse under less than optimal installation.

I had to cut the one bent bolt head off to get it free, re-installed the parts together, used some blue Loctite, drove it home without incident. The next weekend, I removed and reinstalled them with Loctite and proper torque specs, never had an issue again.

I've recently been contacted by the person who purchased my FJC and is living in the Dominican Republic. He needed to know where he could get replacement parts for the RCV CV. Of course, I asked why and pics would help. I get a series of pictures of the RCV CV in two pieces, clearly apart at the same place but his broken english didn't help me understand if the bolts came loose again or if he broke it in another way. He was also asking for parts for the Lefty transfer case, he apparently destroyed the recently installed CrMo inner/output shafts at the same time.

I never got a story as to what happened, just gave them the names/numbers/references to get replacement parts and cried in my soup seeing my baby in such condition.

Where is all this going? Making sure you get as much disclosure as I can give with my experinece with RCV's. I'd consider using their products again. Yet, they clearly aren't indestructable but can be rebuilt to some extent.

Does the value match the cost? That is what it comes down to, when you can buy 4-5 "aftermarket" CV's for the price of one RCV.

I also think there is credence to the idea of transfering the load upstream to the R&P gears. There might be good reason to simple invest in the spares, proper tools and techniques to make swapping one on the trail less of a hassle and put the RCV $$ into the solid-axle-conversion fund...

 

[1911]

I also think there is credence to the idea of transfering the load upstream to the R&P gears. There might be good reason to simple invest in the spares, proper tools and techniques to make swapping one on the trail less of a hassle and put the RCV $$ into the solid-axle-conversion fund...

I'm with Jerry on this one. Swapping out a CV is not that hard; with a little practice you can do the whole thing in 20-30 minutes. And though they're not cheap, they're a whole lot cheaper (and easier to fix on the trail) than a broken differential or a transfer case.

 

[BMThiker]

I've changed a handful of CV's on my FJC. I am still of the opinion that I'd rather change a CV than a diff on the trail, so I carry a CV in my spares kit. I will also add that while a CV axle can be obtained from Napa/Advance/OReilly's for about $100 - it is a far inferior product compared to factory/OEM axles. My first (and last) "cheap" CV was branded "FEQ" and didn't last through one wheeling trip. The spare I installed on the side of the trail was an older Toyota CV that was not 100%, but it got me off the trail and home just fine. So my word of caution is that if you go cheap, don't expect to wheel it. It might be fine on the pavement or light action in 4H, but I wouldn't trust it beyond that. Stick with factory parts (or reputable off road brands) when it comes to the CV's.

Oh and as Lee said, with a little practice and maybe and extra set of hands, you can do this in 20 minutes. Here we are with the cheap CV on the side of the trail.

 

[Delancy]

I was under the impression that the OEM CVs weren't available separate from the axle assembly. Obviously not the case, but I'd have bought new and sent to Metaltech when these were built.

Valid points. I'm digesting and on iPhone, so more to come.

 

[BMThiker]

You are correct, full assemblies are what I carry for spares. I'm using "CV" as shorthand for "CV axle assembly" in the post above. Basically, plug and play. Pull the old axle assembly out and shove the new one in. Save the old ones for rebuild (if not a catastrophic failure).

 

[Delancy]

Have had a line on a +2" axle assembly, but I'll be on the hook to rebuild the current faulty, and haven't the first clue how, yet.

 

[FJNewb]

I recollect Newb having issues with the RCVs at full travel on his Camburg's, but considering the difference in the Total Chaos +2" achievable travel in comparison, curious of anyone knows if an issue for.

Just commenting for clarification.

We were able to acheive a full 14" of travel with the RCV shafts, and probably a bit more based on what I've seen them go to offroad. That being said comparing travel numbers between two different kits/track widths isn't that useful, it'd be the angle on the inner joint that would be of interest. If mfg to the appropraite specs it shouldn't have an issue.


Jerry - RCV updated their website a few months back and now have the axle shafts listed again.

Ultimate IFS CV Axle Set for Toyota FJ Cruiser ('07 and up), 4 Runner ('03-'09) and Tacoma ('05 and up)

I don't think that price is correct though for custom applications. Their pricing has changed since I've ordered a few shafts from them and I believe the current price would be ~$2600 for two shafts.


Yes, as others noted that is a whole lot of spare axle assemblys which you can afford, but I don't think anyone will argue that the RCV outer is an improvement over the OEM outer. That integrity of the 930 inner is where my conerns lie, but fitting a larger joint on the dif isn't going to happen. Strength over the OEM tripod is probably wash, but the reason we went with them was for the additional angular displacment they could handle.


I will say that in my experience so far RCV has been quite responsive to questions, reworking the product if needed, and designing a solution for the setup we had . If I did have an issue with one of the assemblies it is nice to know there is a lifetime warranty to back it up.

 

[Delancy]

Here's my first dumb ass question of the day, in regards to the RCVs.

In my case, would they be specified as +2", or is the CV angle altered enough to warrant an "as installed" measurement?

 

[Delancy]

Second dumb ass question.

Where do I get the CVs by themselves?

Upon ordering from Metal Tech, Mark explained the patented process they devised to separate the CVs from the core axles that they used to build the +2s, so assuming that they've found it more economical to split the CVs from used.

Can't get ahold of FJRohr's to get my hands on his spare, and Hornsfan's went to OC in Houston, so I may be forced to do something with what I have.

 

[Hornsfan]

I don't think that price is correct though for custom applications. Their pricing has changed since I've ordered a few shafts from them and I believe the current price would be ~$2600 for two shafts.

I bought mine at around the same time as you for $1,995. Mine are only +2" though and required no rework.

 

[Hornsfan]

Here's my first dumb ass question of the day, in regards to the RCVs.

In my case, would they be specified as +2", or is the CV angle altered enough to warrant an "as installed" measurement?

Tell them +2"

 

[Hornsfan]

Hornsfan's went to OC in Houston, so I may be forced to do something with what I have.

I told you I have another one you can get off me.

 

[BMThiker]

Where do I get the CVs by themselves?

I'm not sure. Maybe one of these other guys that has more direct experience with rebuilding them knows. I do know that Toyota does not sell them. You can buy boot kits or entire assemblies, that's it.

Upon ordering from Metal Tech, Mark explained the patented process they devised to separate the CVs from the core axles

You mean this "patented" process
[vimeo]3089355[/vimeo]

 

[Delancy]

I told you I have another one you can get off me.

Will take you up on, if for only temporary until I can figure out how to swap the joints. Try to put the 80 back together for the trip.

Had I been given the option, or explored further when doing the front end, and in consideration of the negligible expense difference, I'd have put the RCVs in then.

I've no intention of selling the FJC and the PP80 project is going to take many, many months to complete, so not ruling it out, at this point, unless someone can state they aren't a better option than jacking with this crap periodically.

I wish I knew the parameters the Metal Tech gauged viability for swapping to the TC axles, so I'd have a feel for the expendability of these. I've ran these for 30k, most of which has been with the 35s, and would like to be able to determine the lifespan to aid in calculating the cost effectiveness of the RCVs.

 

[Delancy]

You mean this "patented" process
[vimeo]3089355[/vimeo]

I hope the humor was evident. I know you don't frequent the land of sunshine and unicorns.

Can't see video on app, but will check out shortly.

It wouldn't do much good to by used axles, and swap, considering the unknown condition of the joints themselves.

PITA.

 

[FJNewb]

I bought mine at around the same time as you for $1,995.

Old pricing. The original ones I ordered were less than that. They increased their prices across the board earlier this year. The one I ordered last month would run ~$2600 a set.

 

[Hornsfan]

Old pricing. The original ones I ordered were less than that. They increased their prices across the board earlier this year. The one I ordered last month would run ~$2600 a set.

Great...so your custom ones were more than my off the shelf +2". I love it when I spend more than I had to

edit: actually, now that I think about it they may have only been $1,900. I can't remember.

 

[Hornsfan]

Will take you up on, if for only temporary until I can figure out how to swap the joints. Try to put the 80 back together for the trip.

Just let me know when you want to come in. I might even drive in from tulsa on Saturday to get CO2 and I could bring it to you. Not sure how much moxy I will have that morning though.

 

[FJNewb]

Great...so your custom ones were more than my off the shelf +2". I love it when I spend more than I had to

edit: actually, now that I think about it they may have only been $1,900. I can't remember.

My point was that RCV's pricing increased recently and that the pricing on the website is for OEM applications based on my experience. It was not to compare pricing. We were doing product development for RCV (something that another guy that I know already did on 2.5" TC setup well before you ordered). Neither is off the shelf, that pricing on the site now is the off the shelf OEM pricing. LT kits are "custom" and priced differently based on my experience.