Rational thoughts and input on decision, please! (3 Viewers)

[5ForFighting]

We just took possession of a new travel trailer. Not new to towing, just new trailer. It is the PERFECT set up for how we camp. Max weight on the trailer is 7,500 lbs.. Tongue weight with batteries, propane, 1/2 tank of fresh water, and camping supplies minus clothing and food is 1,200 lbs.

I bought the Blue Ox Swaypro with 1,000 lb. bars but they're being exchanged for 1,500 lb. bars. No sway but lot's of sag, although the heavier bars might help more with that issue. I have the medium duty OME suspension in the rear. I bought, but have not installed, the 4.88 gears.

The reason the gears have not been installed is that we're debating selling the LC and getting a pick up.

I've always been partial to the RAMs with the Cummins, especially the AEV builds, but I'm worried about loss of reliability. The F-150 with the Ecoboost is really nice, but I'm not sure that selling the LC to make room for a half ton pickup is worth it - not a significant gain in payload and towing ability.

The Tundras seem like the worst choice as far as towing capability but this is available locally:

Used 2015 Toyota Tundra for sale in Anaheim, CA 92807: Truck Details - 452123321 - Autotrader

It has the max tow package and the factory supercharger so 505 HP and 550 ft-lb torque. It already has the 4.88s.

The guy sent me a pic of the sticker:

GVWR = 7200 lbs
GAWR = 4000 lbs (front), 4150 lbs (rear)

Not sure if this is enough of a gain to make the jump, especially since I'd be giving up the third row (3 kids) and the off roading capability.

If I can make the LC work with re-gearing and maybe stiffer suspension that would be preferable, but I worry about sinking more money into it and then finding out it wasn't effective, and then having to try to sell it with even more mods that might not be appealing to most buyers.

Having just gone through the trailer purchase, pdi, etc. this week my mind is reeling from the stress, so I would appreciate some rational thoughts from the group.

Thanks!

 

[5ForFighting]

 

[M1911]

If you are going to be pulling that trailer a lot, I would get a full size pickup from one of the Big 3.

As much as I like Toyotas, the Big 3 are really driving the technology in pickups. The Tundra is just an old design.

 

[TeCKis300]

Consider this. Especially the GAWR of our rear axle relative to the 1/2 ton options you're considering (which generally are lower!)

I personally think you're an airbag setup away from sitting pretty.

BTW, my travel trailer is very similar in weight to yours. I've done many different long trips now over just about every type of wind/hills/mountains. I'm completely happy with my setup and I do not want for a better tow vehicle. Especially when this one has so much luxury, off-road capability, seating, etc. Only thing I'm looking for is more range which I'll get to eventually with a aux tank.

 

[TeCKis300]

BTW, I run 1,000lbs bars on my Equilizer hitch.

Got a picture of your hitch setup? Specifically where the ball sits relative to the bumper? Some gains in stability can be made there.

 

[5ForFighting]

I don't have a pic and the trailer is currently back at the dealership as they screwed up the placement of the hitch latches on the frame. I have a 4 battery box (hence the excessive tongue weight) and the way it's positioned interfered with the required 29" back of hitch ball. Instead of ordering the different plates which eliminate the giant bolt, they placed them 26" back!! That caused the chains to be at an angle under tremendous pressure and I'm not sure that it allowed for the most effective functionality.

But, back to the question, I saw your previous post regarding shortening that distance. The Blue Ox Swaypro is pretty well engineered and I don't really want to mess with it. But I had your idea in mind a couple of days ago so I shoved the hitch beyond the hole and there was less than an inch of space back there.

The longer range would be awesome, but 3 hours between stops is as far as we like to drive before a bathroom/stretch break anyway. I do want to bring along a jerry can or 2 because I hate sweating where the next gas station will be on some stretches...I just don't know where to mount them. Don't want to add to the payload of the LC with that. Do you think mounting them on the bumper of the trailer (it's heavy duty) would be safe if we were rear ended?

 

[tominboise]

If you are going to be pulling that trailer a lot, I would get a full size pickup from one of the Big 3.

As much as I like Toyotas, the Big 3 are really driving the technology in pickups. The Tundra is just an old design.

This is what I would do. The half tons are rated up to 11000lbs anymore. Even the gas versions would likely get better mileage than the land cruiser. If you stay with the cruiser, I would do as suggested and add an air bag set up. I have bags on my Duramax tow rig and it makes for a nice and easy set up.

 

[coleAK]

Here has been a lot of discussion lately about this... I also have an outdoor RV (2015 Black Rock 22BHS) we have had it for 4 summers now and it is the best TT we have owned for our needs (and we had an airstream before this).

I have pulled it for 4 summers with my ‘13 LX 570 (stock other than LT tires). I use a old school curt WD round bar (1200 lb bars) with the seperate anti sway. My TT loaded weighs around 6800 lbs with 700 lbs on the Hitch. We also usually have another 150 lbs on the the roof rack (bikes or canoe), 500+lbs of people (4 of us) , 100 lbs of dog, 100-200 lbs of cooler and fish,... if an rPod or something like that would fit our needs I would downsize to it.

I am happy with how it towes but I feel I am maxed out. Not in terms of suspension/frame/sway but in terms of capacity. Now in AK I’m never on a real “highway”, pretty much always on curvy/hilly/mountain roads, travel on dirt and gravel roads long distances, and much of the time in bad weather (rain and high winds). If I go above 55-60 MPG falls through the floor and I have to carry more fuel, I go 30-35 mph up passes, and it is rare I could pass anything.

I had a 1998 diesel F250 that I used to tow this camper for the first 2 months and it pulled it way better than my 200 and used it for our airstream that we had before our kids got bigger and wanted bunks in the camper.

I’m not complaining about my LX just being realistic about it’s capacity and the environment I tow in. There are guys on here that pull larger TTs than mine and feel the 200 does well with mods.

 

[coleAK]

I baby the throttle when I tow and get ~9mpg if I go 65-70 mph on the flat stuff and 40-45 mph up the hills I get closer to 7mpg. When I go north in AK carry 20-40 gallons of fuel.

 

[coleAK]

Also I have a 2” receiver adaptor on my TT rear bumper that I carry a tray on. On that tray goes the fuel, firewood, dip nets, large fish cooler, I even carry a freezer on it to process our fish on the beach. I also know guys who do a 2” receiver on the front of the truck and carry fuel there.

 

[linuxgod]

You don't say anything about trailer length, but if your TW is 1200# it's far too heavy for an LC. Max TW is 850# with a WD setup. Even with OME 2724 HD springs I wouldn't feel comfortable with a trailer with a 1200# TW.

 

[5ForFighting]

I haven't had a chance to take it to a certified scale yet to verify, but I did measure tongue weight with a Sherline scale designed to do so. It read 1,200 lbs. That's not a reflection of gross weight necessarily as I made the decision to put 4 batteries on the tongue (that's close to 250 lbs.) and both the slide and the 78 gallon fresh water tank are forward of the TT axles. It's just plain tongue heavy.

So, coleAK, would your advice be to go pick up?

 

[5ForFighting]

I don't get how the max hitch weight can be 850 with or without WDH...isn't that the point of a wdh?? Other manufacturers list two maximums, one with WDH and one dead weight.

 

[coleAK]

Was that the picture of you camper? The outdoor RV? If so what model? it is similar to mine. I personally would not want to tow the next model up in size with my set up.

I weighed mine a few years ago on CAT scales with full propane, water, and loaded. Both total weight and dead weight on the hitch with no WD. I also weighed the approximate weight on the rear wheels with the WD activated and all 4 of us in but without bikes and the dog. I estimate my effective weight over the back wheels with the WD on is ~550 lbs. I also now travel with the water almost empty when I can and fill up when I get closer to where I’m going.

Again (just my opinion from my experience) I don’t think I’m limited by tongue weight or camper size it’s more the whole package and what the curser is set up to handle in terms of capacity. Theoretically If I could Exchange out the 5.7 for a diesel from a 3/4 ton or change the gearing, add 20 gallons to the fuel tank and possibly switch to the NATO beefed up AHC for armored cruisers it probably could pull 10-12k like the newest 1/2 ton trucks.

It’s hard to say if you could do it. I tow under different conditions than people from most of the rest of the country. I had a similar dilemma when I got my LX. I had the truck and a g500 as my DD and made the change to have one vehicle. I did a ton of research and For an SUV I don’t think anything significantly better than the LC/LX other than if you can find a used diesel f250 based excursion (and I briefly considered that). The new navigator is rated to 9000lbs with the tow package and I know a guy with a black stone that just got one although he hasn’t towed with it yet.

 

[5ForFighting]

Thanks for your input...I keep waffling between trying to turn the LC into a more tow worthy vehicle and just getting a truck specifically designed to tow. Part of the problem is that either option has to be my daily driver and I'd rather not tool around Southern California traffic and parking lots with a giant diesel, although many around here do.

We previously had a Nash that I towed with the LC over 20,000 miles through California, Utah, Idaho, Montana, Washington, and Oregon. Some mountain passes were rough going up. I specifically remember worrying I wouldn't make the top of a pass leading to Jackson Hole.

The new trailer is a 2019 Creekside 21 DBS:

ORV | Creekside 21DBS

 

[M1911]

Any chance you can get a pickup and a small commuter car?

I can’t get a commuter car because I don’t have any room in the driveway, so my LC is my daily (which is pretty wasteful as 99% of the time it is just me in a 6k lb suv).

 

[5ForFighting]

I have considered that as well...seems logical but pricey considering insurance, registration, etc.

Ugh. I seriously wish the RAM 2500/3500 with the Cummins had the F-150 interior. I would then sell the LC and get one of those. That stupid cutout on the RAM Crew Cab in the middle of the 2nd row would suck for whichever of the kids had to sit there. I know the extended cab has three full seats in the back but that thing is way too humongous...although this 3500 is pretty sweet as far as a set up is concerned:

2018 Prospector XL in Jackson Hole - American Expedition Vehicles - Product Forums

 

[coleAK]

So I it looks like our campers are the same frame/shell and And very similar specs. Are you sure it’s that heavy? The web site has it listed as 7500 max weight? Another thing I have done is being very weight conscious of my camper and gear weight. I travel with little water when possible and when I fish Ditched the cooler+ice and do a small chest freezer and generator. And
Could you do away with 2 of the batteries and get a 100-200w solar panel to preserve the 2 remaining batteries.

 

[coleAK]

Specs on my 22BHS. Looks like this year it is updated and now the 23BHS.

 

[TeCKis300]

I suspect a lot of your issue is due to the excessive tongue weight caused by the extra batts. I think that's going to cause you an issue with just about anything short of a 3/4T truck or larger.

With sliding the hitch farther into the receiver... an inch might not be worth the mod. I made the mod to shorten it by 3". What if the shank were shortened too? How much farther can the whole hitch go in? For every 1" shortened, will feel like 2" longer wheelbase. And it'll help with that added tremendous tongue weight to minimize leverage.

You have to ask yourself how you will use your vehicle once at site too. I often take mine exploring to the backcountry. A diesel, especially with it's stiff suspension, is very much out of its element off-road.