If you compare your set up to mine I think you would be fine even without the gear change. Just ditch the extra batteries and try and load it more even. As others have said probably would want airbags or stronger springs in the rear since the LC dosnt have the AHC.
Rational thoughts and input on decision, please!
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I guess I'll reserve my decision till I can get it on a scale for true weights. Maybe that scale is off. The addition of propane, batteries, etc. would have increased the tw, but you're right, 1,200 lbs. seems like a lot. I got the exact weights for my unit from an ORV engineer who looked up the build sheet:
1. The actual dry weight of my unit as it came off the assembly line was 5,742 lbs.
2. The hitch weight was 722 lbs.
3. The cargo capacity was 1,758 lbs.
I have 2 160W panels on the roof from the factory, 4 6V AGM batteries for 440 ah, and a 2,000W pure sine inverter/charger for the missus to run the microwave when necessary. Our Nash had a built in generator which served that purpose but the ORVs don't have that as an option.
1. The actual dry weight of my unit as it came off the assembly line was 5,742 lbs.
2. The hitch weight was 722 lbs.
3. The cargo capacity was 1,758 lbs.
I have 2 160W panels on the roof from the factory, 4 6V AGM batteries for 440 ah, and a 2,000W pure sine inverter/charger for the missus to run the microwave when necessary. Our Nash had a built in generator which served that purpose but the ORVs don't have that as an option.
I say drop to 2 batteries and play with loading it then weigh the tongue again with the water full and with it like 1/4 full.
I installed my own basic solar. I switched all my interior lighting to LEDs, have one 270w panel on a frame that I put on the ground to a charge controller and two 6v golf cart style batteries. I run them to a inverter with 2 outlets and then extension cord it to: coffee maker, TV,... can’t do the microwave but I carry a 2000w Yamaha generator as back up charging and the microwave if needed. If it is sunny I can camp until the water runs out and the waste tanks are full off grid with no problems.
I installed my own basic solar. I switched all my interior lighting to LEDs, have one 270w panel on a frame that I put on the ground to a charge controller and two 6v golf cart style batteries. I run them to a inverter with 2 outlets and then extension cord it to: coffee maker, TV,... can’t do the microwave but I carry a 2000w Yamaha generator as back up charging and the microwave if needed. If it is sunny I can camp until the water runs out and the waste tanks are full off grid with no problems.
Is your bumper welded through the frame? Be careful, if it's not you may find you lose your bumper and all the attached gear on the highway. Because of the leverage from the long overhang between the rear bumper and the axles gear on the back tends to bounce a lot and can break the welds holding the bumper to the frame.
RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Travel Trailers: Broken bumper
Toyota says 500# dead weight or 850# with a WD hitch. TW should be between 8 and 15% of the total trailer weight, ideally around 12%. A properly set up WD hitch should shift 40% of the tongue weight. 40% of 850# is 340#, and 850 - 340 = 510#, so the math makes engineering sense to me.
1200# means you need to shift 700# off the tongue, which is almost 60% of the TW.
Toyota factory rear springs are 170# coils, so 510# would be a 3" sag in the rear. IMO more than 2" is too much to remain stable, but if you allow for 3" and assuming you went to OME 2721 HD springs which are 340# coils then 40% of a 1200# TW is 480#, so you'd have a bit more than a 2" sag (720# vs 680#). I'm not entirely sure the math for this paragraph works as I'm advertising though. Also you need to take into account your GAWR, GVWR, and GCWR. Normal carrying capacity is about 1300# so 1200# TW + one person will exceed that rating. HD springs will help, but there are lots of other factors that determine the safe weight rating including tires, wheel load ratings, brakes, axles, and other suspension components.
Can you move your batteries further aft? Do you need to run with a full tank of water regularly or do you mainly camp at parks where you can fill up when you get there and would only be exceeding the weight limits around the park?
Agreed. 200W and one 100Ah battery with LED lights, water pump, and even the propane heater blower at night lasted us 3 days in the Grand Canyon last summer in the woods. In Moab in the sun we were recharged every night. No microwave or AC but I agree 4 batteries is a lot of weight.
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- #27
Toyota USA emailed me to say 850 for both dead and wdh.
"Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
We appreciate your inquiry concerning capacity of the different hitches. Per our product specialist, there are no differences based on which hitch is used. The capacities will still be the same as stated starting on page 310 of the owners manual.
Your email has been documented at our National Headquarters. If we can be of further assistance, please feel free to contact us."
I have the medium duty OME springs in the rear.
"Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
We appreciate your inquiry concerning capacity of the different hitches. Per our product specialist, there are no differences based on which hitch is used. The capacities will still be the same as stated starting on page 310 of the owners manual.
Your email has been documented at our National Headquarters. If we can be of further assistance, please feel free to contact us."
I have the medium duty OME springs in the rear.
I thought I had read the 500# number in the manual but when I checked all I see is the following at the moment:
This is why I am thinking of selling my Duramax and my LC, even though I've had one for 15 years, and just getting a 4 door Tundra or F150. Simplify my life and probably save quite a bit of $$ over the long haul. Painful as it is for me to type this.
I'll throw in 2 semi-rational thoughts from an RV forum I work with:
1) TANSTATMTV (there ain't no such thing as too much tow vehicle)
2) When setting up towing, always think about what would happen in an emergency situation and whether your rig could handle it.
1) TANSTATMTV (there ain't no such thing as too much tow vehicle)
2) When setting up towing, always think about what would happen in an emergency situation and whether your rig could handle it.
edit: nevermind, completely misread your trailer weight last night. You should be fine with some airbags in the rear and better weight distribution on your trailer. Maybe a front hitch on the LC to move some cargo there.
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Rent a 3/4 ton diesel Ram, hook up your camper and put the LC on a trailer behind the camper. With the RAM's 17,000 lb towing capacity you'll have power to spare.
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- #34
I stopped at a Ford dealership this afternoon to look at the F150. It really hits all the spots: comfortable 2nd row, 36 gallon tank, max hitch weight of 1,222 lbs., turbo...
Here’s a question though:
LC max tow = 8,500 lbs
LC max hitch = 850 lbs
F150 max tow = 12,220 lbs
F150 max hitch = 1,222 lbs
Do they start with hitch capacity and divide by 10% to derive max tow, or do they start with the max tow and multiply by 10% to derive the max hitch capacity?
Here’s a question though:
LC max tow = 8,500 lbs
LC max hitch = 850 lbs
F150 max tow = 12,220 lbs
F150 max hitch = 1,222 lbs
Do they start with hitch capacity and divide by 10% to derive max tow, or do they start with the max tow and multiply by 10% to derive the max hitch capacity?
Max towing rating on my 2013 LC is 8100#, but an 850# max hitch weight. I think the tow rating was 8500# in 2008 but after Toyota went to the SAE J2807 standard they had to subtract a few hundred # for passengers which reduced the rating.
To answer your question, I don't know that they all automatically divide by 10% but given Toyota recommends the tongue weight be 9-11% of the trailer weight, and the universal towing recommendations tend to be either 8-12% or occasionally 8-15% it wouldn't surprise me they would use 10% as the guideline. It could be that the new SAE J2807 standard states they should take the lesser of 10% or the actual rating though. It might even be possible that the max hitch weight actually determines the max tow rating - i.e. if the F150 can handle up to 1222# on the hitch, then the max tow rating should be 12,220 if you're right in the middle of that 9-11% or 8-12% recommendation.
To answer your question, I don't know that they all automatically divide by 10% but given Toyota recommends the tongue weight be 9-11% of the trailer weight, and the universal towing recommendations tend to be either 8-12% or occasionally 8-15% it wouldn't surprise me they would use 10% as the guideline. It could be that the new SAE J2807 standard states they should take the lesser of 10% or the actual rating though. It might even be possible that the max hitch weight actually determines the max tow rating - i.e. if the F150 can handle up to 1222# on the hitch, then the max tow rating should be 12,220 if you're right in the middle of that 9-11% or 8-12% recommendation.
So, Norse and Priblilof, what deficiencies did you find when you were towing with the LC? I have read threads from both Cole, who has gone to the Arctic Ocean with his, and Teckis, who has thousands of miles in front of his Airstream, that have commented on their success towing and I have travelled the full length of British Columbia as well as the Yukon and into the Northwest Territories to the Arctic Circle without issue. I am surprised that you had a different outcome. Plenty of power, great brakes and comfortable interior have been my experience.
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- #38
Went to a certified scale today. I got there with 10 minutes left before they closed so I was rushing and probably missed a few measurements. I had gone to this scale a few months ago to weigh the LC with me and a full tank of gas in it (6,260 lbs.).
Scale numbers below - LC with me in it and about 7/8ths of a tank of gas; trailer with full fresh water and mostly ready to go camping, minus clothes and food, hooked up to LC with 1200 lb. Equal-izer WD hitch engaged:
Front axles of LC on scale = 2820 lbs.
Both axles of LC on scale = 7380 lbs.
All 4 axles on scale (GCWR) = 13,560 lbs.
Trailer axles on scale while hooked up to LC = 6,200 lbs.
Trailer unhooked and alone on scale = 7,160 lbs.
If I'm understanding this correctly, 960 lbs. get transferred to the LC when hooked up (7,160 - 6,200).
However, the difference in LC weight between weighed empty and hooked up is 1,120 lbs. (7380 - 6260), and that's not accounting for the difference in fuel load. That's closer to the 1,200 lb. reading I got from the Sherline tongue scale.
It also appears that the wdh is not distributing much of the weight to the front axle of the LC, overloading the rear axle by 260 lbs. (7380 - 2820 = 4560) while leaving 775 lbs. available on the front axle.
These numbers just don't work with the LC:
GVWR = 7,385 lbs.
Max Tow = 8,500 lbs.
Max Tongue = 850 lbs.
GCWR = 15,885 lbs.
GAWR (front) = 3,595 lbs.
GAWR (rear) = 4,300 lbs.
I'm starting to think the LC experiment is over. These weights don't even take into account my family, which is another 380 lbs. and growing.
Scale numbers below - LC with me in it and about 7/8ths of a tank of gas; trailer with full fresh water and mostly ready to go camping, minus clothes and food, hooked up to LC with 1200 lb. Equal-izer WD hitch engaged:
Front axles of LC on scale = 2820 lbs.
Both axles of LC on scale = 7380 lbs.
All 4 axles on scale (GCWR) = 13,560 lbs.
Trailer axles on scale while hooked up to LC = 6,200 lbs.
Trailer unhooked and alone on scale = 7,160 lbs.
If I'm understanding this correctly, 960 lbs. get transferred to the LC when hooked up (7,160 - 6,200).
However, the difference in LC weight between weighed empty and hooked up is 1,120 lbs. (7380 - 6260), and that's not accounting for the difference in fuel load. That's closer to the 1,200 lb. reading I got from the Sherline tongue scale.
It also appears that the wdh is not distributing much of the weight to the front axle of the LC, overloading the rear axle by 260 lbs. (7380 - 2820 = 4560) while leaving 775 lbs. available on the front axle.
These numbers just don't work with the LC:
GVWR = 7,385 lbs.
Max Tow = 8,500 lbs.
Max Tongue = 850 lbs.
GCWR = 15,885 lbs.
GAWR (front) = 3,595 lbs.
GAWR (rear) = 4,300 lbs.
I'm starting to think the LC experiment is over. These weights don't even take into account my family, which is another 380 lbs. and growing.
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Always good to operate with data. I would hazard an opinion that most guys that tow, don't have much idea about what their actual tongue weights or even actual trailer weights might be. Now you do, so you can make a more informed decision. I personally wouldn't tow 7160lbs very far with a LC rated at 8500lbs. I'd prefer the margin of a tow vehicle rated at 11k, like the newer half tons and on up. Moving something around the block or down to the storage yard is one thing. Cross country with hill's and valleys, etc is another. I am sure a lot of guys do it and do it successfully, just not for me.
My opinion only, YMMV, etc
My opinion only, YMMV, etc
I fully agree that a 3/4 ton + would pull my camper better and again mine is very similar to the one 5for... started the discussion on. That is why when it is discussed I mention what some could perceive as limitations of the 200 and that I feel I’m at the limits. If I didn’t need the off road ability, reliability (in AK I can be hundreds of miles from anything), and was on with owning more than one vehicle (before the LX I had a f250 and g500) I would tow with a 3/4 ton truck and briefly (for about 2 seconds) considered a 2500 ram power wagon when I got the LX.
For me with what I want in a camper with middle/high school kids And the Alaska environment the ORV camper was it: bunk beds, big enough to get all of us in for extended bad weather, rated to -40 (we have used it to -20). It is heavier then similar TTs same size from other brands but again fits our needs.
For me personally I do a considerable amount of off roading: old logging roads that can be quite ruggid, beach sand, atv trails, Marsh/mud, and even some rock crawling (when I can’t avoid it), I also would not go to anything with part time 4 wheel drive as my DD due to our long winters. I don’t mind going relatively slow, again we don’t really have highways, I also only go more than 250 miles one way once or twice a year, most of our trips are close (for AK) 200 miles or so each way.
I guess what I’m trying to say is everything is a compramise and for us the LX and camper we have was the least compromises for our use.
For me with what I want in a camper with middle/high school kids And the Alaska environment the ORV camper was it: bunk beds, big enough to get all of us in for extended bad weather, rated to -40 (we have used it to -20). It is heavier then similar TTs same size from other brands but again fits our needs.
For me personally I do a considerable amount of off roading: old logging roads that can be quite ruggid, beach sand, atv trails, Marsh/mud, and even some rock crawling (when I can’t avoid it), I also would not go to anything with part time 4 wheel drive as my DD due to our long winters. I don’t mind going relatively slow, again we don’t really have highways, I also only go more than 250 miles one way once or twice a year, most of our trips are close (for AK) 200 miles or so each way.
I guess what I’m trying to say is everything is a compramise and for us the LX and camper we have was the least compromises for our use.