Question -History

[love2fly]

Okay I have looked into a lot of threads looking for a reason why the FJ45 did not enter the US market after 1967 or am I wrong.
Now they went to most every country on the planet before and after 1967 to include our friends in nearby Canada.
Now the only thing I can find in some readings and research from other questionable sources is that the big car /truck manufactures in the US such as Ford, Chevy , and Dodge were concerned with the trucks doing so well on the US market and the company lobbyist tried to halt the truck from entering the US on some non US safety compliance issues. I can't believe that since the FJ40 and FJ55 were coming into the US for years after, but then again FJ45 was in the truck class category.
Anyone shed some real hard core references to why this truck was left out of the US market or was it ??.
Just interested.

 

[fhawk5]

Well, I lived in Idaho before internet heyday and some retired BLM guys told me exactly that. The contracts for trucks around the BLM were going to the best available, (hence Toyota FJ45), and the big three did not like the "foreign" interlopers. Lobby force pushed out The competition and after 1967, Ford replaced the Toyotas and that is the informal scuttlebutt. Made sense to me since right across the border in Canada they continued. I also heard that a cap was put on the number of Landcruisers that could come into the USA. Informal number was 25,000. Rumor also had that to go around the law, Lexus was imported, as it was not a Landcruiser but shared just about everything. The oligopoly of the big three pushed around a lot competition until , as you know, bankrupcy and/or major changes.

 

[Bear]

It's kind of a long story.......

Back in 1963, chicken was a relative delicacy in Europe. When America started flooding the Euro market with cheap chicken, the European governments reacted by imposing a tariff on US chicken imports.

At the same time, the US automakers were scared at Volkswagen's success in the US market, and were worried about the Volkswagen pickup and light cargo vans coming into the US market. The US President, Johnson, wanted the political support of the UAW for the next election. So, in return for receiving the union's support, he helped them by creating a 25% import tax on light trucks and a few other commodities. This pushed VW out of the American light truck business. Tit-for-tat. End of story.....not quite.

Over the years since then, the tax on the other commodities was either dropped or greatly reduced, EXCEPT, it remained on light duty trucks, now to stifle primarily Japanese competition with the US pickup truck market.

As a result, later, in the mid sixties, with prices raised to cover the increased costs, imported pickups to the US dropped off, including sale of the FJ45. However, after a few years, Japanese pickups started again to be imported to the States, this time as cab/chassis-only vehicles without their beds, which were then added here before sale-- often assembly was completed in the Long Beach, Calif. area. These then only incurred a 4% import tax. But eventually, over the years, the foreign automakers decided the only way around this and other restrictions was to build manufacturing plants in the USA.

Interestingly, today even Mercedes and Ford are having to get around this very same import tax, by bringing in fully outfitted and seated PASSENGER vans, and then removing and scrapping the seats before their intended sale here as UTILITY vans.

I've shortened this by leaving out a number of details, but you get the point. This mess is often referred to as the "Chicken Tax."

So it wasn't necessarily crash test survivability, headlight height, seatbelts, or smog compliance that killed off the FJ45 pickups. It was just our politicians playing Chicken s***. Pardon my French.

 

[fhawk5]

The chicken thing sounds real but it does not explain the FJ40 coming in as it also was a "light truck".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

 

[love2fly]

Ah-So, this does make real sense as a older gentleman was telling me some what of the same story of the tax and that the Toyota FJ45 truck was a bit of a concern to the big truck manufactures in the early sixties as the world was changing and they owned the market on the truck side of things in the US and only 20 so years after the second world war. There was still a lot of resentment towards Japan. He said "made in Japan" was a bad thing to hear then now its made in China. As for the FJ40 that's a another story.
But in the early days when this country was in it's awaking in the 60s era, after the McCarthy days, big truck manufactures were starting to se the writing on the wall and started to play hard ball on the VW, Toyota, and others. The FJ45 was in a larger truck class compared to the smaller import trucks that followed.
But how many FJ45 came into this country after 1967 not privately but shipped ?

 

[Gumby]

The chicken thing sounds real but it does not explain the FJ40 coming in as it also was a "light truck".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

The fj40 was expensive in the US.

 

[love2fly]

So the FJ45 just dropped off the US circuit after 1967 but as we all know the FJ40 kept rolling off the ships. Why the 45. Why did not Toyota remove the LWB from the 45 truck as said was done for the small import pick up's.

 

[fhawk5]

So the FJ45 just dropped off the US circuit after 1967 but as we all know the FJ40 kept rolling off the ships. Why the 45. Why did not Toyota remove the LWB from the 45 truck as said was done for the small import pick up's.

I will hold to the "rumor" that somehow no matter what the taxes were and so forth, the big three did not want these trucks as competition. The FJ40 may be a utility vehicle but where a truck bed is needed, it is not the same. In the 1960s look at all the contracts for trucks, Military,BLM, State agencies.. On and On. Ford,Dodge,GMC,and Chevy would have lost a chunk and reputation may have been scarred to boot.
Chicken tax may have a place, but my bet is stronger that the big three were involved. Just ask Preston Tucker.

 

[love2fly]

fhawk5, I have no dough that you are correct that the big car/truck companies had a hand in changing the history of the Toyota FJ45 presents in the US. We are now living with the barn finds, and the one's we find in other countries such as mine that are newer in age than 1967, if 30 + is newer. This is not bad but sad that we were deprived of such a vehicle that was a history maker in the world alone with others such trucks as the Jeep, Land Rover.

I would like to share something with you folks that happened yesterday:
Now I am not a show car kind of guy as in showing car or trucks, I am the type that likes to looks as many do. Well we had big yearly car show yesterday that my friend who has a custom car convinced me a few weeks earlier to participate in the event with my FJ45 before I beat it to death in the off road life I like. Well I did, and being a ex cop with connections on the force, I was able to borrow some items of police equipment that was not being used so we put the old 45 in a semi police/search and rescue configuration, this mostly for the kids at the show for fun, in a Australian format as best as we could being a RHD. (Sorry OZ cops, we tried)
Okay I felt pretty much out of sink with all the custom cars, trucks, hot rods and such to were I felt I should just slip away and go four wheeling for the day.
Not big on sitting around with big money cars and attitudes. Over 300 show cars plus, was I out of my realm.
Well what a shock, I was overwhelmed with folks almost constantly wanting to know about, were they can find a 45, most being familiar with the FJ40s but not the 45 truck. Questions like does Toyota still make them, why are they not available and so on. I am talking about kids that are use to the car computer driven age were cars are streamlined and fast and trucks that are half way to being in a class of earth moving equipment, they wanted a FJ45. Many older gents also were telling stories of when they were younger they kind of remember the Toyota 45 but could never find one on the market or close to buy, and some were saying that if Toyota made the same body style as from that era with modern safety technology items and such they would buy one today. I was astonished from all the attention the old 45 was getting. My friend being a veteran of car shows must of known that the lookers would like to see something that just was not available in mass which made me think of this thread on the history of the 45 in the US. What a shame, all the older folks now in their 70s that were deprived that actually may of bought a FJ45 for the farm or business and may of passed it on to the family or sold to people like you and only if history was a bit different.
If Toyota did make the 45 in the same body style with newer engine and technology I believe the big names would be nervous all over again as they were some forty years ago but could do nothing about it this time around.
Oh, I did not win anything, not that I wanted to as it was a car show after all.
I did feel that I open to door in this little pocket of time to some many folks that were happy not to just see something different at a car show other than hot rods but something that bought back memories for some that were short live in their era, and the many I want one form others.
“Was simply amazing” .
I'm back to my off road travels were I belong.

 

[Bear]

To keep this in historical perspective:

Most countries try very hard to protect their home-base industries--and America is no different. Import tariffs and construction regulations can easily kill a sale. Buyers in the US had to pay a 25% premium to have an FJ45, and almost all truck buyers were practical, and considered that.

The Japanese had not yet designed an interior to fit the larger stature American physique.

American pickups also had a larger capacity rear bed--again very practical to a workman.

Parts for American-made vehicles could be bought on almost any street corner, and certainly were available in out-of-the-way farm and ranch areas. Plus there were no real Toyota dealerships, just small, car-lot types of "dealers," without a Parts Department that we would recognize.

And then there was the lingering hatred by many middle-age and older Americans of anything Made-in-Japan--people often said that American "tin" cans were sent to Japan to make Japanese steel, etc..

In the first round, Toyota tried unsuccessfully to break into the US market with the Stout pickup and the early cars, all of which was a big disappointment to them. True, they learned quickly, but not before the pull-out and demise of the 40/45 series.

Yep, if you could rewrite history, then maybe.........................

 

[fhawk5]

To keep this in historical perspective:

Most countries try very hard to protect their home-base industries--and America is no different. Import tariffs and construction regulations can easily kill a sale. Buyers in the US had to pay a 25% premium to have an FJ45, and almost all truck buyers were practical, and considered that.

The Japanese had not yet designed an interior to fit the larger stature American physique.

American pickups also had a larger capacity rear bed--again very practical to a workman.

Parts for American-made vehicles could be bought on almost any street corner, and certainly were available in out-of-the-way farm and ranch areas. Plus there were no real Toyota dealerships, just small, car-lot types of "dealers," without a Parts Department that we would recognize.

And then there was the lingering hatred by many middle-age and older Americans of anything Made-in-Japan--people often said that American "tin" cans were sent to Japan to make Japanese steel, etc..

In the first round, Toyota tried unsuccessfully to break into the US market with the Stout pickup and the early cars, all of which was a big disappointment to them. True, they learned quickly, but not before the pull-out and demise of the 40/45 series.

Yep, if you could rewrite history, then maybe.........................

It appears as a country tries to protect its' home based industries but in the USA the people in charge never did. Example; Apple has all of its stuff made in China. In the 1970s' in Pittsburgh where I was living/working, steel fabricators were getting there steel from Japan ans USSteel was across the river. I know this is long winded but it is obvious to all today that "home based protection" is non-existant. Many reasons why, but it is not there.
The Americans who hated the imports were definately patriotic. There problem was all the powers with the cash were not. They lost. It continues today.
Early Toyotas did have some issues in this market but were very quick to adapt. The powerful UAW/big three were not able to adapt and were jealous. Toyota is now a big outfit as you know. There stuff became legendary.
You are correct in all you say and maybe I can add more. I still would rather have an FJ45 than an old Chevy pickup truck.
Another question never answered is why did the USA never get Diesel FJ40s' ? I see them all over the world and what a great mileage and longevity. I suppose to answer that it is back to the money guys and Capitol hill.

 

[Gumby]

Americans haven't wanted diesels for decades. Toyota had no real incentive to go through the expenses to bring them here.

 

[Living in the Past]

The fj40 was expensive in the US.

In the sixties and early seventies the FJ40 could compete with jeep. It wasn't until 79 when Toyota introduced the mini 4X4 with it's better mileage four cylinder that Toyota started pricing the FJ40 to a point people won't buy them. By 83 a FJ60 wasn't that much more than FJ40 which was way more than the CJ. Even back then Toyota was all about gas mileage. The wagon has turned into Toyota's luxury flagship that average American can afford to buy new. Toyota know it's history here really started with the Land Cruiser probably the main reason it's still around is to be the flagship. If they really wanted to sell Land Cruisers here we would get them in a stripped down version like are sold in other markets. But that would take away from it's flagship status.

The Japanese had not yet designed an interior to fit the larger stature American physique.

American pickups also had a larger capacity rear bed--again very practical to a workman.

In the first round, Toyota tried unsuccessfully to break into the US market with the Stout pickup and the early cars, all of which was a big disappointment to them. True, they learned quickly, but not before the pull-out and demise of the 40/45 series.

Not sure if I agree with the interior and bed room. The bed wasn't that small in the sixties. Longer than the big three's short box. Pickups back in the sixties were no where near the size of todays 1/2 ton no matter who made them. I won't say the interiors were all that roomy. Plus those had the gas tank behind the seat which took up room. I think a bigger reason was the lack of a V8. How many American wanted a V8 in their truck. I know Toyota claimed you could drive your FJ40 85 MPH all day long but I been driving old F engines for almost forty years and know what a joke that claim was. But back then considering everyone else in the small utility vehicle market had a four cylinder the big six was a big deal. In the US full size market the F135 wasn't the power house the V8s were.

Toyota did import a car first back in 58 before the FJ25 but the car line was dropped after a couple years while the Land Cruiser kept their foot hold in the US market. In the early sixties Toyota brought back the car and introduced the small truck (Stout). Both lines are still around. Both which continued to increase in sales ever since. Of course the small truck line of today (Tacoma) is the same size of the full size truck of the sixties if not bigger. Don't think learning had anything to do with the demise of the 4X series. It was more about the direct Toyota USA wanted to take. Which was more about gas mileage and less about having capable off road vehicles. Compared to a lot of other markets we have very few non paved roads. I also won't call Toyota a quick learner. It wasn't unless they introduced the Tundra in 1999 they offered a V8 in a truck to compete with US full size truck market. When was the T100 introduced 92/93? Still more concerned about getting better mileage than what the average American wants a V8. The T100 is ancient history. Don't see the Tundra going the same way anytime soon.

He is a story I got for the original owner of my 70 FJ40 I bought a couple of years ago. This was his second new FJ40, the first was a 63. In the early sixties his brother had one of the early garage type Toyota dealerships. This was in the small AZ town of Safford. He went out of business because no one could get financing from bank for a Toyota. The big three's car dealerships told the banks if they financed Toyotas they would take their business else where. Just like today back then it was the norm for the car dealership to arrange the financing. Just another way the big three were doing everything they can from imports getting a hold in the US market.

 

[Bear]

Yep, many theories out there.

But through it all, Toyota as a company has succeeded in beating the American goliaths at their own game, in their own backyard.

The success of their reactions to market response, and a feeling for the pulse of a national audience, have ratified their corporate decisions on a worldwide scale.

This, despite what any of us as enthusiasts would like to see brought into the US for sale.

 

[fhawk5]

Americans haven't wanted diesels for decades. Toyota had no real incentive to go through the expenses to bring them here.

Maybe if decent diesels were brought here, Americans would have desired them. I do not believe it was the people not wanting them, my belief is the Big three , (and the oil cartel), did not want them to flourish.
I remember in the 1980s' GM tried a diesel version of a 350 engine and it was a design failure. A neighbor bought one and with less than 1000 miles it would not start. He was back and forth until a trade was needed. (Maybe in the USA we do not have the knowledge to develop an actual diesel engine that actually holds up.)

 

[47coeman]

Here is a question to all would like to know the fj 45 LWB import (US) numbers for the years 1964-1967 anyone steer me in the direction to find out. Best

 

[nuclearlemon]

. I know Toyota claimed you could drive your FJ40 85 MPH all day long but I been driving old F engines for almost forty years and know what a joke that claim was.

heck, annie does 80, even got a pic


...of course if we were to be radared, it would be closer to 52

 

[Cruiser_Nerd]

I think RMP&O had information on a non-compete agreement involving Nissan and Toyota over sports cars and suv's/light trucks. Pretty typical of the time and there was much of this going on in the market.

Better question is why did medium and heavy Toyota and Nissan trucks never hit North America until recently? Don't forget that Ford and GM were heavily involved in the reconstruction effort only twenty years prior. Neither had a small SUV when the Land Cruiser and Patrol was introduced here, but both were cranking out quite a few trucks.

I'd have to agree with Bear that the '64 tax probably pushed Toyota's light trucks right out of the market during that time.

 

[cruiserloser]

FJ45 trucks sat unsold on Toyota dealer lots into the 70s. 90% of the 45s I have seen have been brass tag trucks. Could have been price related, but they did have a demand issue.

 

[SHREG]

FJ45 trucks sat unsold on Toyota dealer lots into the 70s. 90% of the 45s I have seen have been brass tag trucks. Could have been price related, but they did have a demand issue.

Please assist with my ignorance. What is a "brass tag" truck. My Fj40 has a brass tag. Does the brass tag double the value of my Fj40? Kidding of course..... still curious about said brass tag.....