Problem with touch-up paint! Advice? (1 Viewer)

[e9999]

OK, the nightmare continues...

I thought I was about done with my roof repairs. I have sanded, self-etch primed, and then painted the areas around the nustsert holes. I did the painting with matching Toy touchup paint and brushed it on in several fairly thick coats. The plan was that I would then sand it smooth, cover it with clearcoat and then glue on the plugs.

Problem: when I started to sand the paint, I noticed that it was full of tiny bubbles and so does look pockmarked. It's not horrible and it's on the roof, but it's bugging me, I'd like this smooth and blended in with the rest of the roof as much as possible, especially after the many hours of work I spent on the roof.

So what happened? Could it be that I put it on too thick, or because I did paint it in the sun?

Fixes, short of taking it all off, and retrying with a rattle can instead?

sheeesh.....
I didn't need this now....

E

 

[cruiserdan]

OK, the nightmare continues...

I thought I was about done with my roof repairs. I have sanded, self-etch primed, and then painted the areas around the nustsert holes. I did the painting with matching Toy touchup paint and brushed it on in several fairly thick coats. The plan was that I would then sand it smooth, cover it with clearcoat and then glue on the plugs.

Problem: when I started to sand the paint, I noticed that it was full of tiny bubbles and so does look pockmarked. It's not horrible and it's on the roof, but it's bugging me, I'd like this smooth and blended in with the rest of the roof as much as possible, especially after the many hours of work I spent on the roof.

So what happened? Could it be that I put it on too thick, or because I did paint it in the sun?

Fixes, short of taking it all off, and retrying with a rattle can instead?

sheeesh.....
I didn't need this now....

E

Using brush touch-up in this case is like eating an elephant with a plastic pic-nic fork.........

you need more gun....

 

[MoJ]

I wouldn't think touch up paint is meant for much more that a very small area. I would also guess the brushing motion would introduce air into the paint.

Rattle can or leave it alone. No one will know but you.

 

[e9999]

the areas I painted around the holes are about 3/4" or so in diameter.
Yes, it's up there and nobody will know but me, but that's the problem, I'll know...
I may try the rattle can route. That should be smoother.

Amazingly, I found out that both the primer and the touch paint are readily removed with acetone, even when cured for 2 or 3 days. This normal? At least the good thing is that I can easily remove the paint and start again...

Can one buy clearcoat in rattle cans and use that too?

I am so sick of this...



E

 

[MoJ]

Yes - clearcoat is available it rattlecan.

Acetone will take off about anything, I'd think it's completely normal.

You've convinced me to leave my luggage rack the hell alone.

 

[Doc]

Mask it and spray it.

 

[FirstToy]

You've convinced me to leave my luggage rack the hell alone.

 

[e9999]

OK, talked to a body shop supply place.
They can't do the rattle can. Something about a problem with solvent compatibility. (Made it sound like my paint (1A5) is urethane? Not sure.)

Anyway, they sell some sort of gizmo they call a power unit that apparently is put on a bottle, you mix the paint, put it in and it acts like a spray can. Probably some sort of pressurized cartridge.

I might try that and see if that smoothens out the paint coverage.

Wondering if clear coat may also fill the tiny pockmarks and make it smoother.

what I need is an airbrush system...




E

 

[FirstToy]

if it's the narrow white sprayer w/ glass jar on the bottom, it sucks. That will give you a couple good sprays then start spitting. It all depends on the paint mix too.

Harbor Frieght sells cheapo mini auto sprayers for $15 or so. Just need a compressor

Where are you at? If you are in the LA area, you can use my compressor/airbrush setup.

 

[Scamper]

E-

Do you have a compressor? You can buy an okay small-job sprayer for about $30. (Not an airbrush).

I'm not an expert at this stuff, but have done a bit of it (painting). The base coat is just paint plus thinner to make it spray nice. The clearcoat is a two-part product; you have your clearcoat base and an activator that you have to add. Not sure how they would do that in a can. I suspect that's what the guy in the shop was referring to: your base coat is one type of solvent, and the clearcoat that comes in the can is another incompatible type. So you probably need the real kind with activator. Which means you need some kind of sprayer.

I would hesitate before going with this Misto type of sprayer...

 

[turbocruiser]

There are several significant problems here. First, you should not brush on paint, period; even with paints advertised as brushable I spray and will not brush. Brushing agitates the solvents in the paint, introduces contaminants, and causes a completely sloppy look. Second, those bubbles that are there are the result of solvents evaporating out of the finish and also are the result of air getting introduced into the paint by the brush. The reason they are a problem is not the cosmetic factor but the porous factor; they will attract water and rust like crazy. Touch up paint in general is very easy to remove with the right thinner, I hate to say this but the way to fix this problem at this point is to totally remove that brushed on touch up with thinner like Eastwoods "PRE" which will remove the touch up and probably also that primer but will not remove your regular paint, tape off a circular area around each spot, reshoot it with epoxy primer not self etching primer, then tape another circular area 1/8 inch or so larger than the primer spot, prep it by wiping with prepping agent, then shoot it with matching paint using an air brush gun or a small air gun. IMO you are only wasting time and trouble brushing that touch up on, do it right the first time. The reason for all the above precision and pain in the posterior prep is not cosmetic but is to insure proper adhesion, solvent evap, and paint cure. Anything less will cause worrisome problems. BTW a self etching primer is really intended for smooth metal surfaces that have no heavy "bite" to them, this is not the right application for self etching primer. You should tape off a circular area around any spot, lightly sand within that area with something like 250 to 350 grit, then start feather edging the epoxy primer 1/8 inch over the original paint, then feather edge the touch up paint over the primer etc. Keep going till the final coat of clear is slightly slightly slightly (1/16th or so) over the spot you sanded originally. Again, this is not for cosmetic reasons (especially on the roof) as much as for rust prevention. HTH.

 

[e9999]

if it's the narrow white sprayer w/ glass jar on the bottom, it sucks. That will give you a couple good sprays then start spitting. It all depends on the paint mix too.

Harbor Frieght sells cheapo mini auto sprayers for $15 or so. Just need a compressor

Where are you at? If you are in the LA area, you can use my compressor/airbrush setup.

oh rats! It is indeed the white and glass gizmo that they sold me, it's called a Preval Spray gun. Was only $5 or so. It's a gas cartridge sitting on top of a refillable glass bottle.

I do have a spray gun but I don't have a compressor. It's probably too big anyways, I need an airbrush for this.

Thanks for the offer. I'm up in near Santa Barbara, so a bit too far, regretfully.

I may just try the Preval thing, now that I have it.

thanks
E

 

[e9999]

E-

Do you have a compressor? You can buy an okay small-job sprayer for about $30. (Not an airbrush).

I'm not an expert at this stuff, but have done a bit of it (painting). The base coat is just paint plus thinner to make it spray nice. The clearcoat is a two-part product; you have your clearcoat base and an activator that you have to add. Not sure how they would do that in a can. I suspect that's what the guy in the shop was referring to: your base coat is one type of solvent, and the clearcoat that comes in the can is another incompatible type. So you probably need the real kind with activator. Which means you need some kind of sprayer.

I would hesitate before going with this Misto type of sprayer...

no compressor unfortunately.
I bought clearcoat in a rattle can, that should do fine according to the shop. (Duplicolor, enamel).
No, I think what they meant is that the new style paint (Urethane) can't be put in a can because it's too thick and the solvent used in cans is not working with it. Seems like they can only do the old style enamels, IIRC.

Yikes....

E

 

[e9999]

There are several significant problems here. First, you should not brush on paint, period; even with paints advertised as brushable I spray and will not brush. Brushing agitates the solvents in the paint, introduces contaminants, and causes a completely sloppy look. Second, those bubbles that are there are the result of solvents evaporating out of the finish and also are the result of air getting introduced into the paint by the brush. The reason they are a problem is not the cosmetic factor but the porous factor; they will attract water and rust like crazy. Touch up paint in general is very easy to remove with the right thinner, I hate to say this but the way to fix this problem at this point is to totally remove that brushed on touch up with thinner like Eastwoods "PRE" which will remove the touch up and probably also that primer but will not remove your regular paint, tape off a circular area around each spot, reshoot it with epoxy primer not self etching primer, then tape another circular area 1/8 inch or so larger than the primer spot, prep it by wiping with prepping agent, then shoot it with matching paint using an air brush gun or a small air gun. IMO you are only wasting time and trouble brushing that touch up on, do it right the first time. The reason for all the above precision and pain in the posterior prep is not cosmetic but is to insure proper adhesion, solvent evap, and paint cure. Anything less will cause worrisome problems. BTW a self etching primer is really intended for smooth metal surfaces that have no heavy "bite" to them, this is not the right application for self etching primer. You should tape off a circular area around any spot, lightly sand within that area with something like 250 to 350 grit, then start feather edging the epoxy primer 1/8 inch over the original paint, then feather edge the touch up paint over the primer etc. Keep going till the final coat of clear is slightly slightly slightly (1/16th or so) over the spot you sanded originally. Again, this is not for cosmetic reasons (especially on the roof) as much as for rust prevention. HTH.

OK, hmmm.... Seems like you know about this stuff. Clearly, I don't.
Problem is that I don't have anything serious to spray with. I was trying to do very small touchup spots. Short of total removal and then full-on spraying, as is your first choice, what if I just sand the thick layer I brushed on so it's smoother, and then cover that with a couple of sprays from the Preval gizmo and then spray some clear coat on top. Would that not be waterproof enough?

I bought a 1/2 pint of matching paint, reducer for it, and a can of clear coat. So I've got the stuff, hopefully. Don't have the primer you mentioned, though.

I've got many hours into this now, I'd hate to give up and have somebody else do it, or have to buy a compressor just for this... It may come to that, though...

At least the good thing is that my roof is in much better shape now, rust-wise than with the rack on...

thanks much

Eric

 

[FirstToy]

oh rats! It is indeed the white and glass gizmo that they sold me, it's called a Preval Spray gun. Was only $5 or so. It's a gas cartridge sitting on top of a refillable glass bottle.

I do have a spray gun but I don't have a compressor. It's probably too big anyways, I need an airbrush for this.

Thanks for the offer. I'm up in near Santa Barbara, so a bit too far, regretfully.

I may just try the Preval thing, now that I have it.

thanks
E

Dang, that preval sprayer is the bain of my existence. Many hours sanding the spit off... red labeling on it right? Well, test it on something, shake it alot and wipe the nozzle often that's all I can tell you.

Enamel is not fun to spray. Laquer is easier. Be patient and bust out the wet sanding...
My best advice is not to panic or rush. Stop, think about what you're doing, and proceed step-by-step.

Off chance I might go up to SLO i a couple weeks (way off chance, I hope). If you still need something, you can meet me as I pass through and give it back at Surf N Turf.

 

[e9999]

Dang, that preval sprayer is the bain of my existence. Many hours sanding the spit off... red labeling on it right? Well, test it on something, shake it alot and wipe the nozzle often that's all I can tell you.

Off chance I might go up to SLO i a couple weeks (way off chance, I hope). If you still need something, you can meet me as I pass through and give it back at Surf N Turf.

yes, there is some red labelling on it. It's from www.prevalspraygun.com .
Several hours sanding....? I don't want that, already spend 2 or 3 afternoons sanding and painting these holes... Have had enough.
Btw, says emphatically on the instructions to NOT shake it.

Man, that would be great if I could borrow some stuff. This airbrush compressor small enough to travel with?

Even if not, we could get together and have a ?

E

 

[FirstToy]

I guess "swirl" is a better word- to keep your paint well mixed. Not hard shaking like a rattle can-it will spill out if you do that. That sprayer is "ok" but don't trust it- the moment you do it spits (looses pressure quickly). Test it out. If it works for 5-10 solid sprays, buy 3-4 of them.

The fact you have a clearcoat is a blessing because you can shoot the color dry. You will get orange peel but that's ok- knock it down lightly with WET sanding by hand (black paper- like 1000grit) doesnt have to be perfect jsut knock down the high spots

You shoot the clear a bit thicker so you can wet sand it down perfectly smooth and blend w/ the rest of the roof.
Get a tack cloth ($2) to wipe away dust/etc.

My compressor is the silent, heavy duty kind. It has a resivour to keep constant pressure (which you need). I've painted many helmets with it.

Yeah, buy me a brew! That's cool- but I have to say I'm only going up to SLO if I need to and even then work might prevent it so... PM me in a week or week n' half?


oh yeah, turbocruiser has good advice. No amount of perfection with paint will last or look right without proper prep and primer.

 

[e9999]

I guess "swirl" is a better word- to keep your paint well mixed. Not hard shaking like a rattle can-it will spill out if you do that. That sprayer is "ok" but don't trust it- the moment you do it spits (looses pressure quickly). Test it out. If it works for 5-10 solid sprays, buy 3-4 of them.

The fact you have a clearcoat is a blessing because you can shoot the color dry. You will get orange peel but that's ok- knock it down lightly with WET sanding by hand (black paper- like 1000grit) doesnt have to be perfect jsut knock down the high spots

You shoot the clear a bit thicker so you can wet sand it down perfectly smooth and blend w/ the rest of the roof.
Get a tack cloth ($2) to wipe away dust/etc.

My compressor is the silent, heavy duty kind. It has a resivour to keep constant pressure (which you need). I've painted many helmets with it.

Yeah, buy me a brew! That's cool- but I have to say I'm only going up to SLO if I need to and even then work might prevent it so... PM me in a week or week n' half?


oh yeah, turbocruiser has good advice. No amount of perfection with paint will last or look right without proper prep and primer.

This Preval thing say it's good for 16oz of spraying. Probably optimistic, then, eh?

what does "shoot the color dry" mean?

thanks for the info

E

 

[FirstToy]

I don't know how to describe it! lol ...spray lightly and not too close, lots of orange peel ensues...not for the faint of heart because people usally panic, forgetting they have the clearcoat to do yet.

That preval is tricky too because you are working a tall, horizontal surface. tilt the sprayer too much and bam! spit! Make sure that feed tube is always in the paint, know what I mean?

16 oz of spraying but you have to test spray EVERY TIME you stop n start. Like this 1.test spry 2. test spray 3. test spray 4. spray the hood 5. swirl the paint as you look to see what damage you caused, er I mean, progress 6. test spray, 7.etc etc

 

[NorCalDoug]

Eric,
Have you looked at this site?
http://www.paintscratch.com/
They match your color based on OEM color codes. They even ask for your VIN to verify a color match.

Some asshat scraped the rear passenger side bumper corner pice of my wife's LX. I read the info on their site and am considering buy one of their kits (different kit for plastic parts rather than metal). It's not cheap, but it sounds as though you're just about as anal as I am about this stuff...well, no...you're a lot more anal, but that's okay

If you're willing to spend the $$$ this might be the way to go. They have a multi step process with separate spray cans for color and clearcoat. It might result in a cleaner job.

Me? Once I remove that demon rack, I'll probably have my bed liner guy shoot something up there too...I likes my bed liner










...of course I'm kidding about the roof-top bedliner -- unless he can shoot it a color matched white