please help (fuel system 2h) Long

[iron_giant]

Sorry for the urgency but I'm scheduled to leave for Canada tomorrow evening and I can't get my 2h started. i know much of this has been covered but like I said, I need some help, fast. Here's what I did (oh and yes, i am a moron):

Installed rebuilt injectors via FSM. Cranked her up and she started, billowed white smoke, idled roughly for a few seconds then cut out. I noticed one of the union nuts on the pump was leaking so i removed the air box to gain access and tightened as per FSM. Re-installed air box and tried again. This time nothing. Checked and checked and realized i tightened the air box on a fuel line crimping it. Resolved that and Installed new fuel filter via FSM. Used primer pump to bleed system. Bled and bled, and bled and bled, still intermittant air in system. Now, whwn I turn it over there is no fuel being sucked into the pump. I removed the out hose from the racor and put it in a clean fuel container and nothing. The hand pump sucks the fuel in but the pump does not.

Sorry about the rant but any help is grandly appreciated at this point.

David

 

[crushers]

out of fuel?

 

[iron_giant]

I've got a 1/2 tank, plus I added some fuel to a container and fed in directly to the the priming pump. Problem is that it doesn't "feed" when i crank the motor over. The priming pump pulls in fuel but the injection pump doesn't seem to. The pump worked before the injectors and filter were changed so I don't think it is bad. Honestly, I'm working on logic since I new to diesels.

 

[beanz2]

I'm guessing the fuel filter still has lots of air in it. Take it off and fill it up with clean diesel and reinstall. Did you close the filter bleeder valve back up after you bled it? It could be sucking air from there.

Dave

 

[iron_giant]

Thanks guys,
Dave i was about to call you out of desperation but figured I'd try here first. I unscrewed the filter to check on the fuel level and as soon as I did so it began spilling so I assumed it was full. I did close the bleeder valve. If there is air in the injection pipes, or anywhere in the fuel lines, say, from gas tank to first filter (racor), is the primer pump the only way to get rid of it? It seems to me that if the primer pump pulls fuel through to the filter, that the injector pump should as well.

 

[beanz2]

IIRC, the primer pulls fuel from the lines and pushes it through the filter. The injection pump pulls it through the filter and everything else. Yes, the primer and the bleeder is how air would get out of the lines. Is the Racor mounted below the level of the engine's own fuel filter? Does it have it's own primer or bleeder?

Dave

 

[iron_giant]

"Is the Racor mounted below the level of the engine's own fuel filter? Does it have it's own primer or bleeder?"


I think I see what you're getting at. The Racor does have a priming pump. i tried to use it but I don't know if it works anymore. As far as air in the injection pipes, can I crack one of the union nuts and then use the primer pump to push the air out? It still worries me that the injection pump doesn't draw any fuel. Even when i eliminated the Racor by adding a line of clean fuel directly to the primer pump it still did not draw any fuel.

thanks.

 

[beanz2]

One possibility is that the injection pump may be drawing air in from somewhere. Since the primer was recently used, the seals may have gone south. Look for the recent thread about the 3B primer pump (NorCalCruzr's) and call Terry for a new one.

Dave

 

[VTCruiser]

If the racor is a 445 series or similar, there should be a bleed screw on the top that you can use to prime the filter. I think you just loosen the bleeder and pump away until fuel starts coming out of the bleeder. Tighten it back up and you are set.

Also, when I cranked my 1HZ for the first time, i cracked all the injectors and turned the motor over until you could see/smell diesel spraying out. Then re-tightened all the injectors and it fired right up.

If you think the filters are causing the problem, maybe try bypassing them?

 

[Jan-78FJ40]

VT, when you say 'turned the engine over until fuel squirts out', do you do that by hand or with the battery?
thanks

 

[iron_giant]

thanks for all of the help guys- I got her going. Talk about a newbie learning about the effect a (or a few) small air leaks can have on a diesel. Damn- very frustrating. It turns out the o-ring on the bleed screw for the racor was split, and letting in air. Also, one of the injectors was leaking at the leakage pipe. I ended up closing the bleeder screw and giving the primer pump a few pumps. The pressure then caused the leak which I found by ear and with soapy water. All of my fuel lines were dry after the line was pinched so I removed each individually and filled with clean diesel in hopes to eliminate some of the air. Moral of the story for me is take it section by section and eventually you'll identify the problem or problems.

Thanks to all and I'll check in again after my trip. Oh, and those of you in Canada, watch out here I come!!!

best
David

 

[VTCruiser]

VT, when you say 'turned the engine over until fuel squirts out', do you do that by hand or with the battery?
thanks

with the starter.

 

[iron_giant]

the saga continues... I got about 20 miles out, running great, when I slow down and the engine begins to sputter and craps out me. it won't start. Obviously there is another leak somewhere so i had it towed home and it's back to the drawing board. I have a feeling Dave got it right when he mentioned a leaking primer pump.

Question: Is it possible/smart to bypass the primer pump? the diesel mechanic who rebuilt my injectors suggested I do it, that the injection pump will push the air out. just a thought.

 

[beanz2]

the saga continues... I got about 20 miles out, running great, when I slow down and the engine begins to sputter and craps out me. it won't start. Obviously there is another leak somewhere so i had it towed home and it's back to the drawing board. I have a feeling Dave got it right when he mentioned a leaking primer pump.

Question: Is it possible/smart to bypass the primer pump? the diesel mechanic who rebuilt my injectors suggested I do it, that the injection pump will push the air out. just a thought.

I'm just guessing too

No idea about bypassing the primer. I suppose if you can find a plug with the same thread and size you can try it. . .

(just went to the garage and checked)

the square headed knuckle housing grease filler plug seems to have the same size and thread pitch as the primer pump. But try it at your own risk, stripping the threads on your injection pump would really suck!

Dave

 

[beanz2]

with the starter.

Yeah, may be I didn't eat my Wheaties, but when I tried to turn a 2H with a torque wrench I got nowhere. The tranny was in neutral and the glows were out.

Dave

 

[Greg_B]

Let me joing the guessing game too! (Caveat---I know little about 2H's).

Was the truck running okay before you took out the injectors for rebuild?

Is this a salt country truck? If so it could be the fuel pickup tube has finally packed it in and developed a hole/s large enough to finally make themselves known. Is your vent system working correctly and allowing replacement air in the tank as you draw out fuel? Take off the filler cap and see if that makes a difference.

Moose was having some problems when he changed out his injectors and there were many posts offering suggestions to help narrow down the problem. One is to find some clear line and replace the rubber fuel lines at specific locations so you can track where the air comes in the system.

Are you sure the injectors were rebuilt correctly?

I believe the primer/fuel pump works on the same principle as the 3B. If so, then you "could" be sucking air in the primer pump, however with it screwed down (locked in position) it is a faint possibility. You can not take the primer pump out the the system, as the primer pump body IS the fuel pump, which is cam driven off the side of the injection pump. Remove it from the system and no fuel for sure.

You can try replacing the primer pump with a new one (make sure you get a new seat, spring, and copper washer with the pump). I do not have the Bosch part number handy, however a search of the DTLC should net you the number.

You can over tighten the union nuts, and impact the injection pipes. Again, somewhere in the depths of Birfields data base is the e-mail that explains this, and how you can fix it.

That's all I can think of for now.

hth's

gb

 

[Greg_B]

iron-giant...did you get it figured?

gb