Playing with front lift (problems)

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RobRed

RobRed

10 Year 15 Year
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Sep 19, 2010
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Lost in the Sierras
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Been futzing with front lift to match rear...

Started the day with stock rear, OME torsions in the front. Everything has been perfect with that.

I acquired some 860 rears and threw them in today. Obviously looking to raise the front to match.

With the 860's in, the rear is 20 1/4 (from top of ctr cap to fender) that's 2 9/16 greater than stock.

Cranking the tbars to give the front 19 1/4 causes the drivetrain to clatter something fierce under load (i know my poor CVs). This surprised me. I would have expected leakage etc but not this. I dropped them to 17 7/8 to eliminate the issue.

Any options here? Diff drop of course but am I over looking anything?
 
Rob- are your fender to hub measurements 19 1/4? Do you have torque steer under full throttle? That is strange. I am running 2.8" of lift in the front and do not have any of those symptoms. Just the occasional shock top out over very large speed bumps. Diff drop will only correct for CV's, not any clatter, although your CV health could play a factor with "clatter" (sound).

ps- I'll ping you on skype tomorrow at some point. Have a few things to go over with you if you have a minute.
 
The tbars were installed 2 days ago if that matters - pretty fool proof I dont think I could screw that up.

Top of the center cap in front was initially 19 1/4. (1" rake)

Currently fender to hub is 17 7/8 or an inch above where they started before the 860s.

I'm in the middle of the adjustment range on the tbars.

Sent from my iPad 2 using IH8MUD
 
Last edited:
I have the same set up - my front is at 21.5" from the fender to the center of the cover. Rear is at 22.75". What is your droop set at?
 
Supra88 said:
I have the same set up - my front is at 21.5" from the fender to the center of the cover. Rear is at 22.75". What is your droop set at?
Click to expand...

20.25 front but that's low to make cv stop binding

22.5 rear

Sent from my iPad 2 using IH8MUD
 
Rob- just took this measurement. This is the absolute maximum height you can run without severe drawbacks. I have no diff drop and do not have CV binding. You should be perfectly fine at your height. I would start looking at other things, I'm not sure where, but it shouldn't be the added height.
image-589654438.webp
 
2000UZJ said:
Rob- just took this measurement. This is the absolute maximum height you can run without severe drawbacks. I have no diff drop and do not have CV binding. You should be perfectly fine at your height. I would start looking at other things, I'm not sure where, but it shouldn't be the added height.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the photo. Are you measuring that from the top of the center cap or bottom?

Sent from my iPad 2 using IH8MUD
 
RobRed said:
Been futzing with front lift to match rear...


Cranking the tbars to give the front 19 1/4 causes the drivetrain to clatter something fierce under load (i know my poor CVs). This surprised me. I would have expected leakage etc but not this. I dropped them to 17 7/8 to eliminate the issue.
Click to expand...


Under load? When you are turning or going straight? You lifted it up about 1.375"... Hmmm... I was gonna say that if there's a turning issue, perhaps an alignment would clear it up.. but you're saying drivetrain. hmm...
 
3D FJ said:
Under load? When you are turning or going straight? You lifted it up about 1.375"... Hmmm... I was gonna say that if there's a turning issue, perhaps an alignment would clear it up.. but you're saying drivetrain. hmm...
Click to expand...

When my alignment was way out of whack (and I mean way out of whack) it drove horribly and had a binding feel while turning into a corner. My truck was aligned to a 2000 2WD 4Runner. I think this could be an issue, but I don't think Rob raised his front end high enough to really make drastic changes in alignment. At least not enough to cause binding and chatter.
 
Wait - when you put it into neutral the noise immediately stops? Even while still rolling forward? If so, I don't think that's the CVs....
 
I'm going to get back to this today.

Fuzz it exactly like that. Under power or coasting with the trans engaged... clack clack clack... shift to neutral - Gone! Lower the front of the truck - Gone!

Everything has been perfect until i raised the front.

Nick - It's not an alignment issue in terms of camber caster etc - At least I dont think it is??? No binding feel - just the clack clack
 
2000UZJ said:
Center of hub to fender lip. The standard way of measuring lift on these.
Click to expand...

Nick, let me make sure I understand. Your front, center-of-hub-to-fender-lip measurement is 22.75"? At 21" I have 2.5" (63.5mm) of droop. Recommended minimum IIRC is 60mm. If I were to raise my front to 22.75" I'd have only .75" (19.05mm) of droop. The front of these trucks lift that much under acceleration. Nick, what is your droop measurement at 22.75" static ride height, and how in God's name have you not had CV problems?
 
Raising the front the limited amount you have should cause any adverse affects. Also, while Nick doesnt feel he has any problems with the ride height he has in the front. Not every one will agree. This is a very gray area that some people have more tolerance than others. For example, I am running 863's in the rear like Nick and with the TC UCA's up front, I lifted the front to be lower than the rear by around an inch or a little more. I really dont like the handling I am getting at this height and will be lowering all around by at least an inch. It isnt horrible, but I am just not happy with the handling it gets at those heights. Ok... Off tangent..

Humor me for a minute, didnt you refurb your sway bar recently? While this maybe a long shot, I would look into your clearances between the sway bar and drive shaft. As you raise the front end, the two get closer and closer to each other. If something is loose, they may be coming in contact with each other. It is a long shot, because I would reasonably expect the same noise in reverse. But, you are not getting that. Also, take a good flashlight and look everywhere for signs of contact (underneath, in the wheel well, engine compartment, etc.). If two things are coming into contact with each other you should be able to find signs. Gotta go pro??? Mount it underneath in different locations where you think the issue may be and see if you can catch anything on film....

I know... I am throwing darts here... But the info I have to work from is a little hard to point to. Wish I were closer to help out. If you end up going to a shop, I can recommend a couple in SF if you don't have anything more local to you.
 
I totally agree that everyone will have a different opinion on what is acceptable up front with regards to how high you have lifted the front. With 863s , the rear unloaded and rake set to 1 inch, the ride for me was terrible. I have the diff drop, Carl's UCA's, good shocks, a good amount of weight up front (winch & front bumper), no wheel clearance issues and a lifetime alignment contract with Firestone. I "should" be able to run one inch of rake with the 863s but this is not the case. When the front was higher the front tires would chirp if pulling out of a parking space, the front end had a mind of it's own during any type of brisk acceleration and it felt very twitchy at hwy speeds. I'd like to drive Nick's truck with the 2.75" of lift up from and comment on it as if it were my vehicle. Nick and I talked about this and we plan on trading trucks for an hour or so in the near future.
 
4Peanut said:
Nick, let me make sure I understand. Your front, center-of-hub-to-fender-lip measurement is 22.75"? At 21" I have 2.5" (63.5mm) of droop. Recommended minimum IIRC is 60mm. If I were to raise my front to 22.75" I'd have only .75" (19.05mm) of droop. The front of these trucks lift that much under acceleration. Nick, what is your droop measurement at 22.75" static ride height, and how in God's name have you not had CV problems?
Click to expand...

I honestly have not measured droop. I have 866+30MM Spacers in the rear and sit almost dead level on flat group. That comes out to 3.1" in the rear and 2.75-2.8" of lift in the front. I can top the front end out going over table top speed bumps very quickly (25MPH tables at 30MPH). I have had a lift for the past 65K and have not once had an issue. I have 13K on the 2.8" lift and have no CV issues whatsoever besides a little puking... There is VERY little torque steer at full throttle. Here is a picture of my stance right now to give you a understanding at how high the front end is. I am not sure how my CV's are holding up. I honestly do not, but I do drive my truck VERY hard on the street, not a day goes by where I don't bounce off the rev limiter.

Paul- you are more than welcome to take my truck for a spin. Just let me know when/where.
IMG_3291.webp
 
this forum is pissing me off right now!!!! not you guys, The software.

This is the third reply I've typed and it puked my last two detailed responses.

in a nut shell:

The rear springs are back to stock. The front is lowered to match.

MY thoughts in conjunction with Slee is that there may be a non-OEM cv or cvs in the truck. I have reason to believe that the PS may not be.

Action plan;

New front axles to baseline truck. This provides a spare for trail duty. Add a diff drop (planned to anyway) and redo the lift.

Carry on regarding the right amount of lift and droop.
 
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