PBR 100 series ceramic pads and DBA slotted rotors (1 Viewer)

[wileetoyote]

Got em in last night. Look great but couldn't get 'em to lock up (abs didn't kick in) even in the rain.

Will try changing out the brake fluid out later this weekend. mileage is in the 80k range and probably due.

btw - no grinding of the pads was necessary but had to leave out the anti-squeal shims.

WET

 

[elmariachi]

Got em in last night. Look great but couldn't get 'em to lock up (abs didn't kick in) even in the rain.

Will try changing out the brake fluid out later this weekend. mileage is in the 80k range and probably due.

btw - no grinding of the pads was necessary but had to leave out the anti-squeal shims.

WET

It seems to me that brakes not locking up and ABS not kicking in is a contradiction. If the brakes won't lock up, the ABS is kicking in...unless your truck is just not stopping right.

Jim

 

[Darwood]

It seems to me that brakes not locking up and ABS not kicking in is a contradiction. If the brakes won't lock up, the ABS is kicking in...unless your truck is just not stopping right.

Jim

True however one can feel the ABS kick in. Since this didn't happen for wileetoyote (I'm assuming that's what he means by abs didn't kick in) I'm inclined to think something isn't quite right.

wileetoyote, let us know how the fluid change works, also what size tires are you running and what year is your truck?

 

[IdahoDoug]

My feelings on altering the brake system in this way are well known and I hope you get things working. I've seen this happen before when people put components that are basically competition brake parts on a road car. Competition brakes work poorly when cold, but very well when constantly hot as they would be in racing conditions. Road brakes work very well when cold as they typically would be in road conditions, but poorly when constantly hot. Ceramic components and the material the rotors are made of may fall closer to the racing end of the spectrum and provide average or mediocre braking when cold. Rainy days keep brakes cold. I hope I'm wrong, but this points to a mismatch between the brake components and your vehicle.

I would not give up before liberally cleaning the pads and rotors with brake cleaning spray compatible with the type of brake you have (dunno if conventional brake cleaners are OK with these). Might just be they've got some assembly oil on them, or that you have not bedded them properly.

DougM

 

[Land Bruiser]

For a second there I thought you were talking about Pabst Blue Ribbon....

 

[Panzer]

Also, if your running oversize tires the kinetic energy stored in the rolling wheels is higher than the stock value. IE, bigger tires are harder to stop. Old fluid and rubber brake lines can allow expansion and reduce the amount of pressur beeing applied to the thus not being able to lock the wheels and activate the ABS.
All that said. I was running 305's and rubber lines and when the granny pulled out in front of me on a highway the wheels locked and the ABS did work properly. (granny's life depended on it!)
I think that Dougs comments may be the most accurate.

 

[IdahoDoug]

I'm assuming no tire change accompanied this brake job.

DougM

 

[wileetoyote]

Thanks for the reply's...

After installing them that night, I drove around the block and stood on the brakes and never got the abs to kick in. The next morning, pavement was dry and after brakes were warmed up, I got the abs to kick in (somewhat proving IdahoDougs point). However, I still went ahead and flush the brake fluid with the Valvoline Synthetic stuff. Now the panic stop with cold brakes on dry pavement did kick in the abs although I think the biggest impact came from just bleeding the brake fluid. The fluid at the rears didn't look so hot. Milky brown to be exact and it seemed to have some air in the lines in the rear.

Even before I bled the brakes, I could feel the difference from stock. Now that they've been bled, I'm glad I made the upgrade.

As far as overall impression, two thumbs up

My main reason for making the upgrade was to improve the system when I'm towing my camper but have already noticed marked improvements in normal driving although it does appear they work better when warmed up.

When the rear pads wear, I'll be upgrading those as well. To answer some pm's, I ordered the parts from MAF ($345 + ~$25 S&H). BTW - I'm running MTR 33's on stock springs (for now).

WET

 

[Mr.Bryan]

Competition brakes work poorly when cold, but very well when constantly hot as they would be in racing conditions. Road brakes work very well when cold as they typically would be in road conditions, but poorly when constantly hot. Ceramic components and the material the rotors are made of may fall closer to the racing end of the spectrum and provide average or mediocre braking when cold.
DougM

This is very true. I've got ceramic pads and the shop I bought them from said that they can double as racing pads. I've noticed time and time again, after the car sits and cools off, my brakes dont really stop the truck great until I hit about 2 red lights. Then I barely touch the pedel and the truck stops smoothly and effortlessly. Just enough time for the pads to heat up a bit.

 

[Rich]

After a general search on the web it appears that ceramic pads are the next evolution in brake pads. They are starting to replace the use of semi-metallic pads. The difference between the semi-metallics and ceramic pads is that the semi-metallics typically contain steel fibers and the ceramics contain copper & ceramic.

It appears the major benefits are the ceramics tend to be quieter with less squeal and the dust from the ceramics is a lighter color and less noticable than that from semi metalics.

On the Bosch website they touted the advantages of their ceramic pads, and then went on to say that they recommend not using their ceramic pads for towing. No explanatiion was offered.

 

[IdahoDoug]

Strange that Bosch would say that. Towing is the most demanding application for passenger vehicle brakes. It would surprise me that Bosch has a disclaimer for the toughest braking challenge - wonder what's going in there?

Ceramic is an insulator from heat, so perhaps they reduce the proportion of heat that normally is disippated into the backing plate/caliper/axle and might overheat rotors in extreme heat soaking as a result. Towing puts serious heat load on the brakes.


DougM

 

[wileetoyote]

So I finally got around to looking into this Bosch FAQ about not recommending ceramic pads and towing. Yes folks, I believe I've made a mistake. :whoops: What limited 'research' I did on the net yielded some pretty surpising results (I'm sure some will say "I told you so" )

Basically, ceramic pads are toted as being low dust and low noise since the ceramic replaced iron and lead, but have lower stopping power and wear faster than conventional pads. The claim is that ceramic was being introduced as a replacement for asbestos and have found a place in the market but are rather 'old school' technology and marketing tactics have built them up.

One website I've found has shows Carbon Metallic being hot $hit now and their ceramic being 3rd in a product line of 4. Check it out .

So here's the $hitter,their top of the line "z-rated" carbon metallic pads that have near perfect properties all the way around are available for the FZJ80 brakes but not for the FZJ100.

Guess I'll be doing more research before the rears need to be done.

 

[nakman]

oh yeah honey I almost forgot. Your doctor called, they said that Pabst Beer is ok.

 

[Rich]

Look to see if you can find some real SAE engineering type info. A lot of what is out there is marketing hype. The conservative repair shops will use what the vehicle manufacturer originally or currently recommends.

Anyway, you probably want to have the same type pads front and rear in order to keep the braking reasonably balanced.

 

[ultimauk]

So I finally got around to looking into this Bosch FAQ about not recommending ceramic pads and towing. Yes folks, I believe I've made a mistake. :whoops: What limited 'research' I did on the net yielded some pretty surpising results (I'm sure some will say "I told you so" )

Basically, ceramic pads are toted as being low dust and low noise since the ceramic replaced iron and lead, but have lower stopping power and wear faster than conventional pads. The claim is that ceramic was being introduced as a replacement for asbestos and have found a place in the market but are rather 'old school' technology and marketing tactics have built them up.

One website I've found has shows Carbon Metallic being hot $hit now and their ceramic being 3rd in a product line of 4. Check it out .

So here's the $hitter,their top of the line "z-rated" carbon metallic pads that have near perfect properties all the way around are available for the FZJ80 brakes but not for the FZJ100.

Guess I'll be doing more research before the rears need to be done.

The best brake pads that I've ever used on the street are the new hawk super duty with the DBA's, they are expensive thou, about $80 for the fronts (100's) alone but well worth it. Sorry but you have to go in a different direction in the back.

This guys an expert on brake pads give him a call.

Monty Holt, (company name is Bits and Pieces in Long Beach, phone is 562-420-3557).