Panhard bars??? (1 Viewer)

[matzell]

I would try to keep spring buckets close to the axle if possible. You do not want too much leverage on them.

 

[Tank5]

Can we get a pic from the drivers side showing the path of the panhard to the axle? I was referring to the bend in the panhard as going down from the frame then across to the axle. It would be a straight shot from the axle to the frame but not go forward or backwards. This way the upper mount could be higher. Almost like a "L" but not that extreme.

I see what your saying about the panhard bar bend. I will have to look at that to see if it would help.

I am not sure I got the correct angle from the driver side. I stuck the panhard in the passenger mount to try an show the path.

If keep the spring hats low but push back on the axle I might be able to open up some space too.

 

[matzell]

I would mount the drivers side up to the frame and then raise the pass side up to clear the diff cover. as long as they are at the same angle they can be higher/lower than the draglink. You could notch the frame to gain some access on the pass side.

 

[Tank5]

@matzell

I am thinking of going with a y-link setup rather than the cross over. Do you have any experience with a y-link?

If I go with the y-link setup I can run the tierod in the farther forward holes on the steering arms. This would open up a lot of room for panhard placement. I believe this would clear up my panhard mounting issues.

Anyone have any negative experience with a y-link set up?

I have read this thread.

A real steering upgrade: Y-link & 1-ton TREs

Yes the rotor splash shield does act as a spacer so you did the right thing. The mini truck guys do this all the time because the shield just gets bent up in the rocks.

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[Tank5]

Another idea would be to use heims and keep the cross over steering. Locate the tierod under the arms at the farthest point and the draglink above on the same hole. I would prefer to keep tierods but I have to compromise something somewhere. I need to figure out what the best compromise is.

Thoughts?

 

[Tank5]

I talked to the staff at ruffstuff today and I think I will steer clear, haha, of the y-link set up in favor of keeping the crossover steering but going with heim joints so I can move the tierod under and out to the end of the arms.

This will allow me to use the stock panhard locations except for having to move the passenger mount higher as @marzell suggested.

I will sit on this idea before I order the parts to think it all through in the event I change my mind again or see a better option.

 

[cseitz]

I redrilled my high steer arms as far out as I could and used heims for all joints. I have my draglink mounted on the bottom side of the arm as well. It works very well like this. Also, not sure if they make 80 arms that allow the tie-rod to be behind the axle, but it works very well for allowing more room for panhard mounts.

 

[matzell]

@matzell

I am thinking of going with a y-link setup rather than the cross over. Do you have any experience with a y-link?

If I go with the y-link setup I can run the tierod in the farther forward holes on the steering arms. This would open up a lot of room for panhard placement. I believe this would clear up my panhard mounting issues.

Anyone have any negative experience with a y-link set up?

I have read this thread.

A real steering upgrade: Y-link & 1-ton TREs

Yes the rotor splash shield does act as a spacer so you did the right thing. The mini truck guys do this all the time because the shield just gets bent up in the rocks.

forum.ih8mud.com

The heims will wear out faster, and make noise and are not greaseable but are super strong. They may not be legal in your state for safety inspection? I wear out a set on my steering every year on the race car. less than 500 miles. Look at every FJ40 and Fj60 stock from the factory uses a "y" link set up. Using 1 ton tie rod ends you could make one very strong.

Heim joints should be mounted in double shear. Can you do that with your steering arms?

You need to match the distance from the center of the steering arm to the tie rod hole to the pitman arm length to get full steering.

I may have missed, what size tires are you using? I have seen "y" links on up to 39" tires hold up.

 

[Tank5]

The heims will wear out faster, and make noise and are not greaseable but are super strong. They may not be legal in your state for safety inspection? I wear out a set on my steering every year on the race car. less than 500 miles. Look at every FJ40 and Fj60 stock from the factory uses a "y" link set up. Using 1 ton tie rod ends you could make one very strong.

Heim joints should be mounted in double shear. Can you do that with your steering arms?

You need to match the distance from the center of the steering arm to the tie rod hole to the pitman arm length to get full steering.

I may have missed, what size tires are you using? I have seen "y" links on up to 39" tires hold up.

How long do you think heims will last on a non racing rig? I will use mine more for overlanding, exploring, and running to the hardware store. It will see highway use regularly because of where I live. I really trying to determine the best set up what I will use it for. I am not building the steering necessarily to be the strongest set up but stout enough that i shouldn't have to worry about it braking on the trail for my mild use. I ended up with the hellfire highsteer set up because I wanted to retain a 9.5" front diff in my 45 build. I built it out of 80 series parts because I had them and to make things stronger than I probably need. I could have easily gotten away with using an 80 series high pinion, kept the stock style 80 steering set up and probably been fine for my use. I am way past that now and determined to make this work.

I currently I have 37" tires on the project but have been thinking I may end up running 35s when I am done with it. My diffs are set up with 4.88 gears and will be powered by a 2uz and 5 speed auto.

My reason for not using the y-link is to avoid the tirrod roll and potential dead space in the steering. from my search it seemed that the crossover set up with hems would be tighter and more responsive. I also read that the heims would transfer more road vibration through the steering. I read that the heims would not last as long but could not find how many miles I could expect to get from them. If I had to change them even every 5000 miles, that would not be ideal.

I cannot run the heims with double sheer on my set up. I was thinking I would run the tierod under the arm and the draglink on top.

If I go with a y-link set up I was looking at the GM 1-ton set up or trying to use 80 series tierods. There are no legal issues with them in NM that I am aware of. They do not do vehicle inspections or even smog checks where I am at.

The drag link on a y_link setup for my project would be pretty short. I will have to look at the pitman arm and drag link tirerod measurement to see where I would end up.

I am learning a lot trying to solve this issue. I appreciate your insights and comments.

 

[matzell]

Another option would be mount the tie rod ends from the the bottom. You could ream out the existing holes to the larger taper of the 1 ton tie rod end or drill it out and weld in a insert with the correct taper for the FJ80 stuff. If you go with 1 ton stuff use the draglink ends off a 84 GM k30 as they have a greater working angle than the tie rod ends.

This shows the bends in the panhard and another in the draglink

 

[cruisermatt]

2 years, 40K street miles on my Ruffstuff 7/8" steering heims including a lot of wheeling, still tight as new. Of course they are going to wear out faster on a Ultra-4 offroad race rig that only sees flat-out

Yes single shear is not ideal but you are going to use a large bolt, 5/8", likely will be the largest bolt on your rig

 

[SNLC]

Really make sure that all clears under full compression and at full lock both ways. Remember the stock bumps inside the coils compress a lot.

When I did a y-link on an 80 it would contact the Panhard under full compression. Never really noticed it except in the most extreme situations. Not good though.

Cheers

 

[Tank5]

I appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions. I decided to order 7/8" heims. If I use the heims I will have to bore my arms out to 3/4 inches, so if I don't like this setup and change my mind I can still go with the 1ton y-link since the bore with inserts is 7/8 of an inch.

I will run the tierod underneith the arms and the drag link on top. I plan to run a heim joint on the steering arm end of the link but a tierod at the pitman arm. This set up will allow me to run the stock placement, ruffly, for the panhard bar. I will have to raise the panhard mount on the axle side.

The heims are in the mail, I will update this thread with the end result. Hopefully this will be my last iteration.

 

[cruisermatt]

I appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions. I decided to order 7/8" heims. If I use the heims I will have to bore my arms out to 3/4 inches, so if I don't like this setup and change my mind I can still go with the 1ton y-link since the bore with inserts is 7/8 of an inch.

I don't like how much material is left in the Toyota arms with a 3/4" hole, let alone a 7/8" hole - I use 5/8" bolts. Ruffstuff sells the correct spacers to use a 5/8" bolt with a 7/8" heim

 

[Tank5]

The less I have to remove the better. I will look and see if I can find those 5/8 spacers. I am using hellfire knuckles and arms. There is a lot of material left if I have to enlarge the holes.

 

[cruisermatt]

The less I have to remove the better. I will look and see if I can find those 5/8 spacers. I am using hellfire knuckles and arms. There is a lot of material left if I have to enlarge the holes.

Oh, in that case shouldn't be an issue. If you're running single shear then the larger bolt the better

 

[Tank5]

I in stalled the 7/8 heim joints with the tierod under the arm and the drag link over the arm. This gave me enough room to use the stock panhard locations with modifications. I purchased a delta rear panhard bracket intended for the rear and modified it to for the front axle side panhard mount to lift it 3 inches.

The numbers in the calculator with this set up are very close to the stock 80 series measurements, so I am going to run with it.

 

[cruisermatt]

all you need to do now is swap that panhard bar out for one with heims on both ends and that will really drive nice and tight.

 

[hoser]

The Tie-Rod wants to be mounted in the rearmost hole or somewhere along that red line for best Ackerman steering. Using the forward-most mounting hole might give you parallel or reverse Ackerman steering.

 

[Tank5]

The Tie-Rod wants to be mounted in the rearmost hole or somewhere along that red line for best Ackerman steering. Using the forward-most mounting hole might give you parallel or reverse Ackerman steering.

View attachment 2448137

I figured it would be affected. I am going to run with it. If it turns out to be a problem I will rethink it.

I am not sure what affects ackerman considering the arms are designed for an 80 and my rig is shorter and narrower I expect that it might be affected even if I used the correct holes on the arms.

I have not researched it well enough to say I understand it, so I am sure I am in for a lesson.