OME Leaf Pack Shifting

[klinetime574]

Seems like there has to be at least 5 threads about OME per page so this is my contribution

My driver rear leaf pack is doing some funky stuff.

The main leaf is not centered in the shackle and then all of the other leaves beneath it are shifted towards the driver side of the car. The front end of the pack looks fine, I didn't take any pictures of it.

Here is the driver rear leaf pack from the shackle end.

You can see the red rusty area where the leaf used to sit before it shifted to the left.

So it shifted in a really weird way. Is this affecting anything negatively? It bugs me that it is doing that more than anything.

The passenger side is doing a similar thing but its not near as bad.

Driver spring is a CS004RA, Passenger is CS004RB

Let me know what you think.

 

[RockDoc]

Is the steel eye insert shifting? That seems to be common on the Dakkars, best remedy would be to tack weld the insert to the main leaf.... Cheap bushings don't seem to stand up as well either..

Some reading: https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/201928-arb-dakar-spring-problems.html

 

[Spike Strip]

Last few paragraphs:

Cruiser Outfitters

 

[Eldorado556]

I have the same thing going on on my passenger side. I just put my springs on 2 weeks ago. Shackle on that side is a bit tweaked as well. Gonna do some adjustments on Saturday and see what I can figure out.

 

[klinetime574]

RockDoc and SpikeStrip: thanks for those links!

Looks like I'm going to be ordering some new bushings real soon.

Eldorado those are some ridiculous shackles!

Another question:

Do u-bolts need to be replaced after they are removed? Isn't that called something like torque-to-yield?

 

[Kynot62]

I wouldn't be overly concerned about the spring pack shifting a bit (other than maybe replacing the bushings. Wheel it hard and they are going to move all over the place.

If you really want a surpise measure the distance between the spring mounts, side to side. The fixed mount is about an inch narrower than the shackle end. This is true for both the front and the rear. In other words the springs do not sit at a 90 degree angle to the axle. Found this out when straigtening a frame and it was confirmed by the frame specs in the FSM. And by comparing several frames both on 60's and 62's.

As for not reusing ubolts, I want to know where this comes from. Even the FSM makes no mention of replacing them after a repair or replacement. I understand that bolts stretch and there are some large bolts that are stretched on purpose but has not reusing ubolts just become common practice? Or does someone have some concrete technical info as to why it should not be done? I have frequently reused my ubolts and have never had a problem.

Would like to hear from someone with the technical knowledge of why you should or shouldn't reuse ubolts.

Tony

 

[klinetime574]

Yeah I'm kinda questioning about it too Tony.

I mean they are only torqued to 90 foot pounds, sure if they stretch they might stretch a little bit, but what about that makes them any weaker?

I have for sure heard of torque to yield head bolts on other vehicles.

Maybe it's just a myth I read on here somewhere

 

[Kynot62]

Yeah I'm kinda questioning about it too Tony.

I mean they are only torqued to 90 foot pounds, sure if they stretch they might stretch a little bit, but what about that makes them any weaker?

I have for sure heard of torque to yield head bolts on other vehicles.

Maybe it's just a myth I read on here somewhere

It's not unusual to hear about it. It gets mentioned frequently but we torque head bolts to far higher settings and we don't throw those away. Wheel studs are repeatedly torqued to 80 ft lbs and who replaces them even with a rotor change?

But I sure would like to hear a more definitive answer.

Time to start some research I think....

Tony

 

[klinetime574]

Time to start some research I think....

Let me know what you find!

 

[Rigger]

Hey Kline, how's it going?

Crawled under the '62 this evening. My OME leaves appear to have shifted around a bit, too. I reefed a bit more on the U-bolts, just for kicks. (I also checked the oil! Yup, still leaks a bit ) Shifty OME leaf springs seems to be the norm.

 

[klinetime574]

Hey Kline, how's it going?

Crawled under the '62 this evening. My OME leaves appear to have shifted around a bit, too. I reefed a bit more on the U-bolts, just for kicks. (I also checked the oil! Yup, still leaks a bit ) Shifty OME leaf springs seems to be the norm.

I'm good!

How about you?

All these FJ60's require a leak haha, mine still does

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...As for not reusing ubolts, I want to know where this comes from. Even the FSM makes no mention of replacing them after a repair or replacement.

The u-bolt manufactures themselves. Some might ask, are they just selling a product? Besides the known stretch of a u-bolt, the nut threads are often designed to cut into the u-bolt for a very high friction contact, hence why they don't use a nyloc or lockwasher.

A few links:
http://www.eatonsprings.com/ubolttorques.htm
http://www.lhrods.com/donotreusse.htm

 

[klinetime574]

Kurt thanks for posting those links!

Would you recommend the yellow OME bushings when I replace mine?

 

[rover67]

I liked the yellow OME bushings a lot. I have had several others disintegrate pretty quickly.

As far as spring pack shift, I am not sure I'd worry about it.

U-Bolts get suprisingly more stretchy the second or third time they are R&R'ed i've noticed. They take more turning to get to proper torque. I like to replace them when I am doing springs personally since the whole truck rides on them and if one pops it can change a lot of stuff under there.

These are just my opinions though.

 

[lehiguy]

One thing about the shackle mount is that it's on the rear part of the frame that has the second C channel inside it that rusts like mad and will actually change the angle of the upper shackle mount as the rust pushes the inner lip of the frame downward. As far as aligningl the leafs again, you may want to loosen the U-bolts, pound the leafs in line again and possibly use a strap of some sort to pull the shackles straight before you tighten everything down again. And I am guilty of reusing U-bolts if they aren't too old and the nuts actually come off without a fight.

 

[klinetime574]

lehiguy I was thinking I may do that. It sounds like its a little frowned upon but to get things aligned again I'll give it a shot.

I don't really need to worry about rust in my c-channels. My 60 doesn't know what that is

Under the car:

 

[lovetoski]

I don't really need to worry about rust in my c-channels. My 60 doesn't know what that is ]

That's not rust, it's patina! From watching the antique road show, I know if you remove patina the value of your truck will go down.

 

[Kynot62]

The u-bolt manufactures themselves. Some might ask, are they just selling a product? Besides the known stretch of a u-bolt, the nut threads are often designed to cut into the u-bolt for a very high friction contact, hence why they don't use a nyloc or lockwasher.

A few links:
U-Bolts - Eaton Detroit Spring
Do Not Reuse U-Bolts

Kurt

I have been searching the net and have yet to find a definative answer about the ubolt replacement.

What I have found is that the nuts used on ubolts are not designed to "cut" into the threads on a ubolt. The term used on several sites calls them hi nuts. And so far the only thing I have found about hi nuts is that they are just taller. Nothing special about them. Funny as the nuts cutting into the threads seems to be the main reason manufactures give for replacement including the lhrods link you list.

The reference to them being cut versus rolled is true but this is because there is no way to "roll" threads onto a nut. All nuts are actually a cut thread. Just the reality of the manufacturing process. While most bolts today are a rolled thread mostly because it's faster and quite possibly makes a stronger thread.
There are definately times to replace ubolts such as damage, excessive torque, excessive corrosion etc. But I have not found any information that says they are a one time use and throw them away. They are not a torque to yield fastener.

I am not saying to always re use them but always replacing may not be valid either. When in doubt, replace them for sure but fixing a center bolt or adding a leaf maybe not.

Am I surprised that the ubolt manufacturers say to replace absolutely not, who benefits the most from this? But trying to find an unbiased fact based answer about this has been near impossible so far. And even the manufacturers reasons at times are contradictory.

Rather than turning this into another forum debacle I am going to put everything I find into a write up on our site.

Tony

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...Would you recommend the yellow OME bushings when I replace mine?

I am a big fan of the OME bushings, not just the fit an finish particularly when used with the OME springs but also the quality of the busings. Even more of a plus is when they are used with the greaseable shackles and spring pins as they are 'fluted' on the exterior to allow for better grease distribution and volume. It makes future service that much easier all the while offering the benefits of mobility and silence (non-squeeky shackles )

Kurt

I have been searching the net and have yet to find a definative answer about the ubolt replacement.
Tony

Great research Tony, keep us posted on your findings. I'd love to have a more definitive answer to pass on to customers. As an engineer my instinct is to replace them once they have been torqued but from a practical standpoint there are countless out there that have re-used bolts with zero issue.