Oh Sh*t! A Little Sunday Help...Please!!!

[rockyklg]

try the old hammer to the starter test. if you have someone to turn the key to start while you bang the starter with a small hammer. if it starts then good chance its a starter. or bad connections which also need to be ruled out.

 

[Front Range 4x4]

Cruiser Heal Thyself?

It started when I walked back after posting for help and has been working fine since. Thanks for all the help, a nice list to do when I get back. In the meantime I'm heading back to the hills to have fun. Fingers crossed and toolbox ready!

Hoping it's intermittent enough to stop misbeahving til I get home

Thanks everybody!

 

[MJADDICTION]

I didn't see this listed, if it's there, excuse me. Try the starter solenoid. If it fails, will cause everything you've been through.

Hope you have no more troubles on your trip.

 

[BMAN]

I once had a bad spade connector that would disconnect when hot then once the engine compartment cooled down it would shrink up and get a connection again and allow my car to start. Drove me FRIGGIN uts till I figured it out. It took weeks of searching before I found it. Used a pair of needle nose to put a little squeeze on it and never had another problem.

Stupid little things that you never think of are the ones that drive ya nuts. Good luck!!!

 

[Godwin]

Filled up, turned the key and get nothing, not even a click. Good this happened before hitting the mountains but I'm still stuck with a dead cruiser /QUOTE]

Perhaps the ignition switch?

I occasionally have the same symptoms even after replacing contacts and plunger in starter and replacing all the cables with 2 ga wire. But sometimes it will still pop up so I now think the ignition switch is the source.

 

[Tinker]

Chris -
Replaced the starter solenoid on the Vortec before I realized problems similar to yours were due to too-small wire to/from the park/neutral safety switch. Replaced it with larger & problem solved until the high temps a couple weeks ago made me realize I needed a starter & solenoid heat shield (installed yesterday).

20 yr old vehicles can build resistance everywhere along the starter solenoid circuit: ignition switch, wire, safety switch, & solenoid. Old VW trick (I know you like these) is to install another 30A relay on the firewall, triggered by the original starter circuit. It then feeds the starter solenoid.

 

[lunyou]

Hmmm, bad contacts?

Walked back to the cruiser and she started right up. Shut it off and had the same problem. After a dozen tries it started again. This starter is less than a year old (Toyota)

I'll check the grounds and see if it behaves differently.

In the meantime says the cruiser gods are telling us to stay out of the mountains today.

this sounds a little bit like a problem i had with my mini.......

Next time it won't start just keep turning the key off and trying to start it over and over and over, back and forth. The points or somthing like that were bad in my starter and this was about the only way to get it started.

lunyou

 

[Front Range 4x4]

Thanks for all the help, love this board!

Update: The problem recurred the next morning. Started right up, drove 1 block, shut it off. It wouldn't start again. Tried many of the solutions from you guys with no luck at all. Gave up and went for breakfast. Tried it after breakfast and still dead as can be. Pulled up this page that I saved to see what to try next and turned the key while reading.

It started.

Figured rescue would be expensive if it totally failed at 12,000 feet. We drove home while we had the chance.

 

[lunyou]

Good luck troubleshooting the prob..

lunyou

 

[srplus]

solution: umbilical cord

1) start engine.
2) hook umbilical cord to gasoline pump.
3) do not shut off engine.
4) stay close to gas station. do not kink hose.

let us know what it was when you figure it out!

 

[POC-LC]

my money is on the starter. My 4runner just did the same thing. Power to everything when i turned the key. 9 times out of ten though the car wouldnt turn over. Changed the battery same problem. New starter...problem solved.

 

[POC-LC]

I would say it is the starter. 4runner did the same thing. Turn the key and everything turns on but the car did not turn over. Changed the battery and didnt fix the problem. Changed the starter and problem solved.

 

[Front Range 4x4]

I'm hoping all votes that it was the starter are right. I just replaced it under warranty and will see how things go. Unfortunatley the old one's been fine since ending my vacation early. The supplier told me mine was the 2nd of 118 Denso starters to fail from his stock. I would have thought better of Denso but guess all rebuilts are declining in quality.

I also added a multi-meter to my arsenal so I will be better equipped next time and be able to troubleshoot on the trail and hopefully be able to do my repairs w/o ending a vacation.

Once again, thanks to everyone who offered assistance in my time of need!

 

[jb welda]

i kind of doubt it is the starter. i had same problem with my stock motor and replaced the starter twice and it would still have this intermittent problem.

then i swapped in a 350 cheby motor and figured i would never have the problem again.

wrong. first hot day, and it was back. replaced the starter once and same problem so im pretty sure its not the starter nor solenoid.

here is what i discovered with some messing around: if you jumped the solenoid leads with a screwdriver, even just bump the motor, then the motor would start from the ignition switch. got tired of sparks flying especially at night so i wired a remote starter switch between the two poles and that works great. great as long as its convenient to get out of the car to engage it (positioned under the hood) but woe be unto those who stall in the middle of a water crossing or, as ive done, halfway up a very steep rutted hill.

someone once told me it was probably my starter switch but i didnt listen. now i wonder...what else could cause these symptoms? wont start at all but send a charge through the starter circuit (by jumping the poles) and it works fine...and this on seeming warm to hot days only, very rarely on a cold day.

im probably going to run the remote switch into the interior so im not so embarrassed when this happens, but im also thinking i should remove the steering column cover and clean up whatever is in there behind the starter switch. i also need to check all my grounds because i occasionally have other strange electrical problems including the stereo distorting all to hell with the lights on.

but i have a feeling in the case of the start/no start business its the starter switch being either worn out or building resistance from dirt and crud. still dont understand why bumping it would change matters though.

please let us know what you do and how it works

one love
jah bill

 

[Tinker]

Chris -
Put the space blanket heat shield on the starter Sunday & brought it to the shop today to get the AC fixed. Took it to Sedalia after to meet a client, & it started after sitting 30 min. Came back to the shop & got gas across the street, but it wouldn't start afterwards. Voltage drops when I key it, but no click from the solenoid. Came back 30 min later, no starty. 1-1/2 hours later it fired up.

Cruiser mechanic next door says change the starter. I changed the solenoid last year when I was chasing the park/neutral circuit problem that turned out to be too-small wire, but I used a CarQuest one. He says get a NAPA.

 

[Front Range 4x4]

Steve- I replaced my 10 month old starter today but suspect the issue will return.
I second the NAPA parts over CarQuest especially when it comes to anything electrical. Had real bad experience with CarQuest alternators on my Avalon. Had 2 that failed within 60 days of each other.

Explain that "too small wire" to me please. I suspect my problem really lies in the neutral safety switch/ignition area. Figure I'll do some small fixes in hopes of stumbling on the real problem.

 

[Tinker]

Chris -
The mechanic at the 4x4 shop that hooked up my park/neutral safety switch used wire that was smaller than the one that originally went from the starter switch to the solenoid. It carried the load at first, but eventually built up resistance so it wouldn't pull the solenoid in.

I found the lighter gauge wire & replaced it with something heavier than the orginal kind & the problem went away.

I suspect your whole ignition circuit is to blame, from the ignition switch contacts, the wire itself, & the safety switch contacts. The relay approach is the cheapest & easiest. I didn't think of it at the time, although I'd done it on Mary's Bug. It requires about 6-8' of wire, some terminals, solder, shrink wrap, & a $5 Bosch relay.

You could prove it by making a "temporary" jumper with a push-button switch to go from the batt to the post on the solenoid. When it won't start with the key, try the jumper. If it works every time, you've found the problem.

I was crawling under my truck last year with a jumper wire. Got pretty good at it, but it's hot down there. I think you could do it from the top with your 3F.

 

[Front Range 4x4]

let us know what it was when you figure it out!

Late note but figured I should mention that it appears to have been the starter. The replacement starter seems to have made everything good, not a single problem since...

 

[srplus]

TG

OEM or another 'discount' one?

 

[Front Range 4x4]

It's another Denso which is supplied by Toyota - OEM? I think so...