Noobie-Orange peel & fisheyes

[Captain M]

So I am attempting my first DIY paint job on the 40 (Freeborn Red, T309). Finally finished the prep work which I "think" I did correctly minus the epoxy primer. Self etching primer, 400g, 600g, sealer, single stage 2k, 1.4 tip, @ 25psi. After applying the first coat, there was a significant amount of orange peel. I waited an hour, and shot a second coat. This time there was a significant amount of fish eyes.

Question: What is the best way to go about fixing this? Let it dry and wetsand w/1500g? Any advice would be great!

 

[Captain M]

Orange peel...

 

[Tancruiser]

How warm was it in your shop and did you use some kind of filter on your air supply ?

 

[Captain M]

hi, it was about 70 and I had a cheepo filter on the gun.

 

[Pumpkin Troopy]

invest in a few inline air filters to remove water & oil.

I would also not paint as wet IMO

 

[Heirloom]

Contaminants in the air or on the surface you painted are possible causes. Drain the water from your compressor tank first. Second, get a dryer/filter to treat the air. I use a cheap dryer and also a small 10 gal piggy back tank in line to trap water before the sprayer.

If you didn't already do this, use something that does not leave residue to wipe down the surface just before painting, like denatured alcohol.

From where you are now: I would wet sand using water with a few drops of dish soap, rinse thoroughly with fresh water, then spray and wipe with denatured alcohol before a final topcoat. Since you want adherence on the final coat, I would color sand with a "coarse" (for wet sanding) grit like 1000-1200.

 

[Captain M]

Thanks for the input! Are you saying wetsand prior to final coat or after? Thanks again!

 

[zags]

Sand now becacuse of the fisheyes. You are probably going to sand through to primer in a few spots anyway. You may need to strip and redo the running boards just because they are a PITA to try to sand.

Check the instructions for the paint, be sure the recoat times are correct for the paint, reducer and hardener you are using

Read up on adjusting and testing your gun, I assume by the numbers that you posted that you are using HVLP. Be sure to adjust your air pressure with the trigger pulled.

HVLP will use a lot of air in a hurry, so be sure your compressor can keep up. Low air pressure will cause poor atomization, which in turn causes orange peel. Like others have said, you need a good water separator and filter.

Also, be sure you are washing your parts with soap water, then going over them a good wax and grease remover. I also go over everything with a tack rag right before I shoot, as in standing there suited up with a full gun ready to go.

A couple of things that I have found that help with orange peel are:

Higher pressure, (try 30 PSI)

Higher temp reducer. Your paint guy will probably trade your unopened reducer for another. Don't be afraid to go up 20 degrees or more. Keep the recoat times the same.

When mixing the paint, a little extra splash of reducer helps also.

Keep the gun close to the work. HVLP guns need to be held much closer to the work than a conventional gun. Mine work best at 5-6". You can test this by holding the empty gun with the trigger pulled and slowly moving your other hand toward the nozzle. You will feel a point where the pressure picks up considerably. This is where your gun atomizes best and should be the distance that you paint at.

Make sure your metal temp is the same as the room temp. If it has been sitting out in the sun, the sheetmetal can easily get over 100 degrees.

Also, don't get too frustrated, you can fix a lot with color sanding, and it is not too hard. Below is the dash on my 40 that I painted recently. You can see the orange peel on the top where the dash pad will be. The bottom is color sanded and buffed.

 

[Captain M]

Wow great info! I really appreciate it. Do I need to sand everything down to primer or just where the fisheyes are. Also can I use a courser grit sandpaper for wetsanding? 1200 will take forever...

 

[zags]

Wow great info! I really appreciate it. Do I need to sand everything down to primer or just where the fisheyes are. Also can I use a courser grit sandpaper for wetsanding? 1200 will take forever...

I would sand the whole panel, but you only need to sand until the blemished are gone. You may be able to save some of it without repainting. I would use 1500 grit. It will go faster than you might think. If at some point you decide that you need to re-shoot a panel, like if you sand through to the primer, you can step up to 600 grit.

 

[Captain M]

Could I use an orbital air sander w/1500g without damaging the paint?

 

[Fast Eddy]

I don't think you'll be able to keep the sander flat enough. I like to wet sand with the sandpaper wrapped around a paint roller. It does take some time. That dash is nice.

 

[vtgbeemer]

Ditto on everything Zags said. His dash looks great and if you notice near the top seam you can see how the orange peel has vanished. As you wetsand be careful near the edges as you can cut through to primer with only a few strokes. In regards to your fisheyes you didn't mention if you have used any type of space heater in your shop. The use of kerosene or diesel heaters can wreck a finish.
Don't get discouraged. Half the battle is getting enough material on there to be able to wet sand it flat without cutting through. Good luck and post more pics.

 

[Captain M]

^Thanks guys. Agree, Zags dash looks really,really nice.
Drained the compresser and bought an Inline dessiccant filter/dryer. Using an electric space heater... (I didn't know I needed to drain the compressor, lots of water). Sanding the fish eyes down now. Will give an update/pics this weekend after a respray...

 

[zags]

Could I use an orbital air sander w/1500g without damaging the paint?

I would suggest that you try hand sanding first to get a feel for how fast the material comes off.

 

[JCruse]

I use this for surface prep FWIW:

.

 

[Captain M]

Update: Fisheyes are back

So I sanded everything down to the sealer, washed everything with soapy water, used Surface Klean prior to painting, and the fisheyes came back. I invested in a cheapo inline dryer/filter near the compressor, and used a filter near the gun. Also, I drained the compressor prior to painting.

I am certain the panels were free of contaminants, so I think the problem is coming from either the compressor, air hose, or possibly from the products I am using. At a loss of where to go from here...

 

[vtgbeemer]

It appears that you have made progress with the orange peel. Again, don't get discouraged and try to systematically change your technique. Make notes if you need to so you can remember each time what works best.Everything you have done in regards to clean air supply and clean surfaces should have shown improvement in the number of fisheyes but they seem about as bad.
Years ago I always added ppg fisheye preventer to my mix and it seemed to help. I think I would talk with the guys that are supplying the paint and see if they offer any tips. Keep us posted.